PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #2

[PlainJaneDoe]

I'm plowing through piles of paper, took a break to take on supplies.

Not sleuthing, that's for sure. Liking everybody else's sleuthing.


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Aha, you're not in the part of the building that's got waste plumbing shut down this weekend?

 

[JurysOut]

Aha, you're not in the part of the building that's got waste plumbing shut down this weekend?

Even better. Working at home. No separation between work & life.


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[JurysOut]

How about someone brought Kortne's car back and she stepped out to thank them, get her keys back, whatever

She wouldn't have needed to take anything with her.

In this scenario, of course the perp left the keys in the car. He's not gonna walk into her house, make the dogs bark.

Her car's still impounded, right?

CP & MR may not have been the only people in the group that night.


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[LivingJuicy]

Back and forth, Back and forth. I can't figure anything out!

I don't think she left on her own - not half buzzed up in the middle of the night. With a guest in her apartment.

You guys all have great thoughts & ideas. I'm glad we all care.

 

[Knox]

How about someone brought Kortne's car back and she stepped out to thank them, get her keys back, whatever

She wouldn't have needed to take anything with her.

In this scenario, of course the perp left the keys in the car. He's not gonna walk into her house, make the dogs bark.

Her car's still impounded, right?

CP & MR may not have been the only people in the group that night.


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Plausible theory!

How did she make the arrangement for the car? Did she speak to someone at the Hardware before she left? Did someone take her keys that night, knowing how trashed she was? Otherwise this leaves cell phone communication (calls or texts) with someone, which LE and her family would know about.

 

[Eileen730]

I dont think she had her car that evening, she asked these guys if she could go with them. So how did she get to the first bar and with whom?

I think someone borrowed her car!

when he or she returned it they left the keys in the car because KS wasnt home

To me that explains why they found the keys in the car!

 

[scorekeeper]

But she also had newer friends, who he believes were involved with drugs and whom she didn’t bring around her parents.

“It’s not that she was there 24/7. But she put herself in that environment enough to basically, I think, allow those people to change the course of her life,” he said.

On Saturday, July 28, just hours before she disappeared, there was a gathering at their second-floor apartment, and beer.

When a probation officer showed up, her boyfriend was arrested. He ended up spending about a week in prison, Lebanon County court records show

She became angry at her neighbors, who she thought called police about the party.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08/kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html

BBM This article answers quite a few questions about Kortne's bad-day Saturday and up to the police being called at 3 am on Sunday morning.

- We now know what happened with Kortne's boyfriend and why he was not there with her
- Was this "new group" of friends at the afternoon party and thought Kortne would be home alone since the boyfriend was taken to jail???"
- Was one of the persons Kortne owed money too from this "new group of friends"?
-Is it normal for a probation officer to be working on a Saturday? Did they usually make Saturday house calls? Or did the "alarm" go off showing that the boyfriend was not "inside the house"? So the probation officer had to show up?
-and why didn't saksek answer his door??? Kortne is missing....he has lawyered up...just saying....perhaps he saw something and has shared that with police....but Kortne is still missing....
-back to "new friends" are these friends she made before or after her current boyfriend??

 

[epiphany]

I don't believe LE is withholding the info that TS did in fact respond to LE after he called in the stomping and banging complaint, and instead would lead us to believe that TS did not answer the door for the purpose of the investigation.

Most likely, TS's attorney has advised him not to speak about the case.

The neighbors downstairs are witnesses, and obviously had nothing to do with K's disappearance.

If the stomping & banging stopped, did TS go to sleep, too? Is he another heavy sleeper? We don't know what his explanation was to LE as to why he did not answer his door. CP states that he went to sleep. His explanation was that he is a heavy sleeper.

One thing is certain, Kortne did not go to sleep that morning.

 

[scorekeeper]

I have heard several people say that others have told them they beleive she ran. That she had been talking about getting away and starting a new life. That one of the people she was hanging out with that weekend is someone who roams from festival to festival and they beleive she took off with him. I heard that she had access to large amounts of money and just wanted to dissapear. I had heard that she was involved with dealing. These are all rumors that I have heard, I don't know if they are true or not. I also heard from someone involved in the local fire department that she had a lot of pending cases etc and owed a lot for fines and that at the hardware bar that night they have video of her going up and punching just anyone. Again things I have heard.

BBM

Welcome!!

Did she run because she thought her boyfriend was going away for longer than a week?

Per dad, According to Stouffer, his daughter believed the probation violation would trigger a long jail sentence.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html

Large sums of money? She was working 3 jobs and 21 years old...

Local sleuthers........did she have upcoming court cases???

If and a very big IF, she did leave....I really can't see her tearing her family apart like this...is she too scared to come back now??

 

[epiphany]

How about someone brought Kortne's car back and she stepped out to thank them, get her keys back, whatever

She wouldn't have needed to take anything with her.

In this scenario, of course the perp left the keys in the car. He's not gonna walk into her house, make the dogs bark.

Her car's still impounded, right?

CP & MR may not have been the only people in the group that night.


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Just brainstorming, Jury:

CP explains that Kortne went to sleep at about 4:20 AM, and we know she didn't answer the door when LE arrived after the stomping and banging complaint. Had she left before LE's last arrival, without CP, why wouldn't CP tell LE that?

Kortne was wearing the same clothing that she was last seen in at the bars, and probably by the downstairs neighbors.

Wouldn't Kortne have had to have awakened between 4:30 AM and 7:00 AM to thank the car borrower/s who then snatched her up because the stomping and banging "facts" are told by both CP/Guest and TS/last caller into LE. CP does not deny there was stomping and banging emanating from the apartment.

Wouldn't a text or call from the car borrower/s be on her cell? Doubt the car borrower would blow a horn in this setting at this hour. How did she know they returned her car? And, still wearing the same clothing, heads outside to thank them where she is then snatched?

 

[TDOTSFAM]

BBM

Welcome!!

Did she run because she thought her boyfriend was going away for longer than a week?

Per dad, According to Stouffer, his daughter believed the probation violation would trigger a long jail sentence.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html

Large sums of money? She was working 3 jobs and 21 years old...

Local sleuthers........did she have upcoming court cases???

If and a very big IF, she did leave....I really can't see her tearing her family apart like this...is she too scared to come back now??

I agree that I don't see how she would not let her family know if she took off. I am just stating what I have heard. that is Why I said I didn't want to elaborate on what I had heard, as it is all hearsay, but someone asked what I have heard so just shared that.

 

[JurysOut]

BBM

Welcome!!

Did she run because she thought her boyfriend was going away for longer than a week?

Per dad, According to Stouffer, his daughter believed the probation violation would trigger a long jail sentence.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html

Large sums of money? She was working 3 jobs and 21 years old...

Local sleuthers........did she have upcoming court cases???

If and a very big IF, she did leave....I really can't see her tearing her family apart like this...is she too scared to come back now??

No upcoming court case that we could find. I also don't understand the large sums of money thing. As you say, she was working three jobs and certainly didn't drive a luxury car or even a new hybrid.

If the OP is speaking of such things as Burning Man - it's pretty far away to travel with no clothes, shoes, phone or cigarettes.

Friend of mine is a genuine throwback hippie festival crawler - Rainbow Family, Burning Man, etc.. He wouldn't leave his tree hammock without his cigarettes or his pipe.

KS as big time stoner/dealer? No way.


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[scorekeeper]

It was mentioned in either Jr. or Sr. interview that there were "others" in the car...

 

[epiphany]

I dont think she had her car that evening, she asked these guys if she could go with them. So how did she get to the first bar and with whom?

I think someone borrowed her car!

when he or she returned it they left the keys in the car because KS wasnt home

To me that explains why they found the keys in the car!

Agree. And adding that, IMO, if there was/were a car borrower/s they had nothing to do with Kortne's disappearance. Could have even dropped her car off prior to her return with CP to the apartment.

 

[JurysOut]

Just brainstorming, Jury:

CP explains that Kortne went to sleep at about 4:20 AM, and we know she didn't answer the door when LE arrived after the stomping and banging complaint. Had she left before LE's last arrival, without CP, why wouldn't CP tell LE that?

Kortne was wearing the same clothing that she was last seen in at the bars, and probably by the downstairs neighbors.

Wouldn't Kortne have had to have awakened between 4:30 AM and 7:00 AM to thank the car borrower/s who then snatched her up because the stomping and banging "facts" are told by both CP/Guest and TS/last caller into LE. CP does not deny there was stomping and banging emanating from the apartment.

Wouldn't a text or call from the car borrower/s be on her cell? Doubt the car borrower would blow a horn in this setting at this hour. How did she know they returned her car? And, still wearing the same clothing, heads outside to thank them where she is then snatched?

I've never understood how CP could pinpoint the time KS went to sleep and also claim to be in another room.

Do we know she didn't change clothes? Did the pull the pic off the flier because they found those clothes in her apartment or car? I can't recall, frankly.

LE arrives at 4:31. A lot could transpire between 4:12 and 4:31.

And maybe it wasn't KS stomping. The only two people in the apartment - that we know of - were KS & CP. KS isn't talking.

CP is the single source of info about KS after 3:45.




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[Eileen730]

As I see it something was going on with her to be having all these fights that day.
Stressed about something!
Alcohol?
Drugs?
Seems there was some trouble lurking there in her life!
BF in jail.....Neighbor
Something was definately going on

but what?

 

[JurysOut]

It was mentioned in either Jr. or Sr. interview that there were "others" in the car...

This is bugging me too.


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[cluciano63]

I am beginning to think she did head out of the door on her own, still in a temper, and then encountered whatever happened to her. She was probably gone before the police came the second time-maybe the sleepover friend did not even know she had left, and had had enough of her for one night and DID fall asleep as soon as it got quiet. It doesn't sound as though she had cooled down at all.

What happened next is anyone's guess...I don't think her phone was helpful, since her family had it for the first few days.

How her car got back to her apartment is being overlooked/not reported in carelessness, or for some good reason, or else because it remains unknown. Did media even ask?

 

[JurysOut]

Agree. And adding that, IMO, if there was/were a car borrower/s they had nothing to do with Kortne's disappearance. Could have even dropped her car off prior to her return with CP to the apartment.

Why do you think not?

I'm not thinking of a borrower-more like someone agreed to bring her car back from The Gas Station/gas station when she decided to ride in MR's car.

If there's no obvious evidence of a crime in the apartment and LE still has her car, I think all three scenarios are plausible given the information we have.

1- CP disappeared KS
2- TS disappeared KS
3- Something's up with the car

I think going outside for what was to be a very brief time period explains why she took absolutely nothing with her. And why the dogs didn't make a fuss.

If LE knocked, wouldn't the dogs bark? Even on the silent third floor, we're talking dog ears, not people ears. And WS said the dog greeted her, which means it was on the second floor or free to roam inside.

If the dogs barked and LE left, that's even weirder, IMO.


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[epiphany]

As I see it something was going on with her to be having all these fights that day.
Stressed about something!
Alcohol?
Drugs?
Seems there was some trouble lurking there in her life!
BF in jail.....Neighbor
Something was definately going on

but what?

I believe that would have been her BF going to jail, and who, in Kortne's mind, was responsible for the probation officer's check-in.

Alcohol and other drugs (if there were) would magnify her vulnerability, but may have increased her more confrontational behavior and agitation that evening/morning.