PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #4

[cluciano63]

Man, I must have missed something. I thought I was reading every post. I don't find it difficult at all to believe LE has nothing to do with Kortne's disappearance. That's not to say they shouldn't be questioned as to whether or not they are adequately carrying out their duties, but that is a far cry from saying they are involved with Kortne disappearing. If lack of communication from LE equated to involvement, LE would be the world's largest organized crime syndicate ever. If I'm missing something other than the fact that we would like a name but we don't know a name, let me know. TIA

Side note...I don't mean to sound brash, I'm really at a loss on where all of a sudden we are accusing LE and feel like either I missed something or there is something right in front of me that I'm not seeing.

My real idea is that the last officer never left his vehicle, thus no one answering at either apartment.

It would be a stretch for me to think an LEO is involved with her disappearance, but the silence is disconcerting, from LE, when they were so heavily involved in her night, and basically the last confirmed to see her, along with CP. So it makes me wonder, that's all.

 

[StacyMarie83]

I'm looking for an incident report (dawned on me reading Ivy's thread through someone else doing that) Someone want to help?!?!

I CANNOT FIND 08.29.12 ANYWHERE

Found all the other dates

http://www.whptv.com/search/sitesearch.aspx?q=lebanon+08.29

this is the site I was on...found an incident report for palmyra, but nothing about kortne

 

[cluciano63]

I'm looking for an incident report (dawned on me reading Ivy's thread through someone else doing that) Someone want to help?!?!

I CANNOT FIND 08.29.12 ANYWHERE

Found all the other dates

http://www.whptv.com/search/sitesearch.aspx?q=lebanon+08.29

this is the site I was on...found an incident report for palmyra, but nothing about kortne

You mean 7/29, right?

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

The public should consider local LE a suspect in this case until LE presents information sufficient to clear them.

They were there the night Kortne vanished......3 times!

They were among the last to make contact with the missing person!

Details about the last LE visit to the missing person's residence is being withheld by LE!

They have maintained silence about the investigation and key details, such as 911 calls!

Wake up Palmyra and Lebanon County! Hold your LE agencies accountable for these VERY suspicious circumstances!

 

[reedus23]

I have this idea, probably totally wrong, that LE knows what happened, and it involves someone in authority, and they are working on it behind the scenes and will present a complete case one of these days, including being led to Kortne's body. It is just a theory, brought upon by too much silence from LE, and I am hugely pro-LE, so not one to suspect them of bad behavior as a rule. But I have never seen anything quite like this wall of silence coming from them, when they were so much a part of her final known hours.

IMO it is precisely because of their having been there 3 times in the 12 hours before Kortne disappeared that LE is playing it close to the vest. That should be anticipated but doesn't mean they did something to Kortne. I don't even see anything that says LE negligently carried out their duties that night. I see speculation about whether or not LE knocked on the door or not, but it's just speculation. At worst, I could see someone being disciplined if they didn't carry out their duties, but that is far from being actively involved in Kortne going missing. The latter I would be shocked by. Not impossible for it to have happened, but not probable IMHO.

 

[JurysOut]

I haven't been part of WS long, but I have followed a few cases and actually went back and started reading other cases from thread one. One of the complaints that is almost universally voiced in all those cases is that LE isn't forthcoming enough with information. In my estimation, sometimes it's warranted. However, it's not unique to Kortne's case. Holly Bobo's case comes immediately to mind. Ultimately, especially in cases where there is little information being provided, the complaints turn into suspicion of coverups and involvement by LE. I would suspect such accusations turn out to be true .01% of the time.

Regarding the officer's name, I would want to know that information more to determine if LE negligently carried out their duties, not because I think they were involved in Kortne's disappearance.

My opinion also is no one is hiding that name. LE owes you, me, the public at large nothing in terms of information. It is an active investigation and they will release what they deem is appropriate when they deem it is appropriate. Their refusal to do so doesn't mean there is anything untoward in their actions. It only means I will continue beating my head against the computer wishing I had more information.

Regarding LE involvement in this case...I hope I'm not wrong but I just don't see it. A name not being disclosed doesn't equate to involvement. Just my opinion and I hope I am right because there is nothing scarier than those we trust with protecting our safety, violating that trust if I am wrong.

I agree that LE owes us nothing.

However, as a local I'd appreciate some assurance that this wasn't the act of some random evil doer within walking distance of my town. I don't want tiny details. A broad brush is fine.

Is some cases LE will issue a statement saying they won't be making any statements. We haven't even gotten that.

I don't let my daughter take out the trash after dark. Just sayin'

According to people who've been involved with emergency management in surrounding counties for decades, it's not completely outrageous to imagine some sort of cover up could be happening. Maybe not even about the possible crime itself. There could be internal machinations we know nothing about.

If there *is* a feasibility study about consolidating police departments underway (document posted up thread), this would be a very bad time to have an officer responding from a nearby municipality who took longer to get there or didn't know the players or the neighborhood.

There's a little funding for consolidated departments. Not a lot, but these are very small departments.

If a kidnapping/murder happened while they were testing out the consolidation process, that could be bad.

More than a few locals consider Lebanon County to be secretive at best, corrupt at worst.

It's not as much of a reach as a casual onlooker might think, IMO.

I don't have a strong feeling that LE is doing something awful. But I'm not taking it off the table.


So, yeah...you folks that think Kortne may have wandered off - keep that on the table too.

With zero information available, every theory is a viable theory.


I wish Kortne had left a clue. Well, I guess she's made it clear that whatever happened to her probably didn't happen in her apartment, so there's that. Maybe.


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[StacyMarie83]

CBS 21 News did submit an official request for dispatch records from police. We're waiting on those.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...e-missing-Palmyra/m5KhVLjUlUGTHWK6O6JN6Q.cspx

That was on the 9th of August :-/

 

[cluciano63]

IMO it is precisely because of their having been there 3 times in the 12 hours before Kortne disappeared that LE is playing it close to the vest. That should be anticipated but doesn't mean they did something to Kortne. I don't even see anything that says LE negligently carried out their duties that night. I see speculation about whether or not LE knocked on the door or not, but it's just speculation. At worst, I could see someone being disciplined if they didn't carry out their duties, but that is far from being actively involved in Kortne going missing. The latter I would be shocked by. Not impossible for it to have happened, but not probable IMHO.

I agree. But her entire disappearance is improbable to me. Someone would have had to carry her out of that building without anyone seeing or hearing anything, or she would have had to head out in the night, without phone or wallet, at 4am or later. None of the available scenarios are probable, but one of them occurred.

ETA: And IF the officer did not follow out his duties as he/she should have, that is being covered up.

 

[reedus23]

The only reason the officer's name (or lack thereof) came up was because the name of the officer who responded to earlier call was released. Just not that last call. So it made some eyebrows raise, that's all.

I might have misread then. It sounded like because we know one name and not another name that that meant LE was "involved" in Kortne's disappearance.

 

[StacyMarie83]

You mean 7/29, right?

yeah, sorry lol typing FAST :blushing:

 

[JurysOut]

Man, I must have missed something. I thought I was reading every post. I don't find it difficult at all to believe LE has nothing to do with Kortne's disappearance. That's not to say they shouldn't be questioned as to whether or not they are adequately carrying out their duties, but that is a far cry from saying they are involved with Kortne disappearing. If lack of communication from LE equated to involvement, LE would be the world's largest organized crime syndicate ever. If I'm missing something other than the fact that we would like a name but we don't know a name, let me know. TIA

Side note...I don't mean to sound brash, I'm really at a loss on where all of a sudden we are accusing LE and feel like either I missed something or there is something right in front of me that I'm not seeing.

You missed me not mentioning 'involvement' or 'accusing' anyone of anything.

There are many things local municipalities could be protecting, including incompetence and a bungled response. That's at least as possible as anything else.

LE doesn't get a free pass because they're LE. No one gets a pass.


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[cluciano63]

I might have misread then. It sounded like because we know one name and not another name that that meant LE was "involved" in Kortne's disappearance.

No, not at all. Just wondering why they would release one and not the other, and then with the whole no one answering doors thing, it made some people wonder if he/she DID in fact knock. And that maybe an internal investigation is being done, keeping this officer's name secret. But where I live, we get the officer's names the same day it is known they have screwed up.

 

[JurysOut]

I might have misread then. It sounded like because we know one name and not another name that that meant LE was "involved" in Kortne's disappearance.

I want to know who dropped the ball. Period.


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[cluciano63]

At the very LEAST, LE is (or should be) embarrassed that she vanished so soon after so many 911 calls, and that LE did not make contact on the final one. She, or someone else, could have been dead behind one of those unanswered doors, for all they knew. They knew tempers were flaring only less than an hour earlier.

 

[StacyMarie83]

To a certain extent, I agree with this. However, this is a very dangerous boiler plate stance to take. The citizens pay taxes so that the police can be paid and given the resources to protect and serve them. There is some accountability there. For the DA and police department to make zero public statements about this case and the progress being made or otherwise is completely unacceptable. The local media shares responsibility for not holding LE accountable. Is there a reason for that? Are they fearful of crossing the blue line? Sure looks that way from here.

Agree 100% and just like meems said----they haven't even told the public if they are safe or not---which the public deserves to know since we are paying them!

 

[Boots]

I'm really not trying to be an idiot here, but are you asserting that LE kidnapped Kortne or are you just saying they're trying to cover their backsides (yes, I almost posted a different word here) for doing a poor job? I'm not familiar with Peggy's case, but if it's the assertion that dirty cops were involved in that case, I would be surprised if the same cops are working Kortne's case 44 years later.

I'm not saying that LE kidnapped her, I am just confused with the lack of information being released regarding the last visit by LE to Kortne's house, and am thinking, yes, perhaps they're covering their backsides for doing a poor job. JMO... I may be wrong.

 

[reedus23]

To a certain extent, I agree with this. However, this is a very dangerous boiler plate stance to take. The citizens pay taxes so that the police can be paid and given the resources to protect and serve them. There is some accountability there. For the DA and police department to make zero public statements about this case and the progress being made or otherwise is completely unacceptable. The local media shares responsibility for not holding LE accountable. Is there a reason for that? Are they fearful of crossing the blue line? Sure looks that way from here.

The accountability comes into play in so far as if you don't like the approach LE is taking, you vote those individuals out of office and vote out of office those responsible for appointing/hiring those who aren't elected. Personally, yes, I would like to know more information. Personally, I think LE in many instances could make more effective use of the public. Having said that, I stand by my statement that LE should only release information they deem appropriate when they deem it appropriate and that is it during an active investigation. They shouldn't release information just because reedus23 on WS wants to know.

Regarding the media, you could be right. I think quality journalism in general is a lost talent in America.

 

[reedus23]

My real idea is that the last officer never left his vehicle, thus no one answering at either apartment.

It would be a stretch for me to think an LEO is involved with her disappearance, but the silence is disconcerting, from LE, when they were so heavily involved in her night, and basically the last confirmed to see her, along with CP. So it makes me wonder, that's all.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I knew I missed something Cluciano. Can you point me to the link that the last officer never left his vehicle? That, to me, is certainly a failure to carry out his duties.

 

[cluciano63]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I knew I missed something Cluciano. Can you point me to the link that the last officer never left his vehicle? That, to me, is certainly a failure to carry out his duties.

I said that was my idea, not a fact that has been released.

 

[JurysOut]

IMO it is precisely because of their having been there 3 times in the 12 hours before Kortne disappeared that LE is playing it close to the vest. That should be anticipated but doesn't mean they did something to Kortne. I don't even see anything that says LE negligently carried out their duties that night. I see speculation about whether or not LE knocked on the door or not, but it's just speculation. At worst, I could see someone being disciplined if they didn't carry out their duties, but that is far from being actively involved in Kortne going missing. The latter I would be shocked by. Not impossible for it to have happened, but not probable IMHO.

Negligence = culpability.

I don't believe the officer ever got out of the car. No one in the neighborhood heard them knock. That's odd. I've never not been able to hear an officer knock within 50 yards of me...or hear their radio when they left the car. No one heard any such thing, including two dogs in Kortne's apartment. It's pretty tough to ignore a responding officer at 4:30 AM in a quiet neighborhood. IMO.

If the responding officer did not get out of the car or follow up with any of the involved parties (TS said they did not follow up), that sounds like civil liability to me. Most especially if whatever happened to Kortne happened while the Mystery Officer was sitting in his cruiser, seeing nothing.

That's why what some dismiss as trivialities - what's the officer's name? Did the officer knock? - may not be trivial at all. It could very well be an essential element in this case.


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