PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #5

[Meems]

Good sleuthing Eagle .. only problem I have with the disposal of a body during a trip to OC MD is there was approx a week or two between her disappeance and the "birthday" trip. While it would be convenient to do so along the way, I would think the probability would be unlikely due to body decomp by then. Not impossible, if she was in an airtight, sealed container, but very risky on their part. She would have had to be very well hidden until then and away from everywhere they had dogs search. Which again, is not an impossibility.

 

[Meems]

Skeet .. one of the underagers arrested at Kortnes apt is the son of a retired LE in a neighboring community, not an active officer.

 

[Chanler]

Good sleuthing Eagle .. only problem I have with the disposal of a body during a trip to OC MD is there was approx a week or two between her disappeance and the "birthday" trip. While it would be convenient to do so along the way, I would think the probability would be unlikely due to body decomp by then. Not impossible, if she was in an airtight, sealed container, but very risky on their part. She would have had to be very well hidden until then and away from everywhere they had dogs search. Which again, is not an impossibility.

In addition to the things you so carefully note, disposal in or near very popular Maryland vacation spots seem highly unlikely.

As in other cases, I think that we posters have a tendency to focus extremely on known names, rather than other possibilities.

The sad, sad, tragic truth is that hundreds of people disappear. If Kortne had not been such a vibrant, attractive, youthful blonde woman, we might have never heard about her. I do hope that there is a break in this and all those other cases.

 

[LivingJuicy]

Living Juicy & Meems, thank you for posting the info about the Ocean City trip. I had never heard this piece of information before. This is definitely interesting. I think your idea about a second car (even a rental car) being used makes sense.

Based on what we know for a fact:

1. LE and family have conducted limited searches in the immediate Palmyra area;
2. 2 cars were searched for possible involvement in a forcible abduction/ kidnapping,

it seems likely that LE has reason to believe that KS was taken against her will outside the Palmyra area, or her body or other evidence may have been taken outside the area.

When you combine this with a possible trip to Ocean City shortly after the disappearance, it may be worth some more thought. Of course, trips to Ocean City, MD., or Rehoboth, DE, are common vacations for people in that area during July & August. Mentioning a trip to Ocean City especially, given what we know about KS's circle, would not arouse any suspicion since its a party atmosphere there all summer.

Don't want to unfairly imply anything about those that went on this trip, but MR and CP are persons of interest and were KS's friends too.

Living Juicy, do you know if anyone can confirm that they actually made it to Ocean City? Or more like it was just announced that's where they were going, but people came back and had little to say about the trip. Any idea what kind of vehicle these friends may have taken? Sedan could mean evidence in the trunk, van/suv may mean a live person could be transported against their will. Rental car? Suspicious if these people are into cars, like showing off their tricked-out cars in Ocean City, etc. Any of them own a boat, or like to rent boats for fishing in O.C.?

1. Tried running some Google searches for bodies found in MD from late July-now. Very depressing. Most are identified thought. Except in this story:

http://www.herald-mail.com/news/loc...road-near-sharpsburg-20121105,0,1996515.story

Almost certainly unrelated, it seems like a wood stove fire. But, happened in MD in November, around the same time the posting by parents changed, and it does not appear to be identified yet. Seems like it could plausibly be on the route to Ocean City, but there's a big gap between the summer and November.

2. If there are any news articles about unidentified bodies found between Palmyra and O.C., or any where else in MD, could try to determine if any of the persons of interest have ties to those areas. (including histories of going hunting, off-roading, camping in the area, or having family/business ties). MD, as a place to get rid of evidence has a certain logic since its a different jurisdiction. If nothing else, if there is a credible lead, maybe the cross-state aspect gives the FBI, or even DEA, a reason to get involved (or more/re-involved).

3. Do the persons of interest & others in the Palmyra drug world have "business" ties to suppliers in MD (Baltimore, Ocean City, etc.)? For example, in much of Eastern PA, dealers in the small towns make regular trips to Philly, and there's plenty of remote areas along the turnpike.

Of course, Ocean City trip could be totally unrelated.

But, based on the last several posts I am definitely in agreement that KS's parents do not know where she is, they have received undisclosed info from LE that informs their efforts to find their daughter, and they are actively seeking more info from people who may have seen KS since her disappearance. The recent radio spot by SS does not necessarily mean that they expect to find her alive, they may just be seeking info from people who might have seen her after disappearance, even if they have reason to believe she's deceased. While I hear what people have said about SS's demeanor, let's try not to be too hard on him. For most of us (some posters are notable exceptions), it's hard to know how we would react ourselves. God forbid ever being in her parents' shoes, but it's easy to imagine acting more like the individuals in Mystic River or Gone Baby Gone, even if that's unrealistic. I have a lot of respect for the efforts by L. Spierer's parents, but that is a different case, even if it has several similarities. Sadly, both persons are still missing and no charges have been filed in either case, despite the different approaches. I think the real explanation is that they've received inside info, and there may be a value to not being too transparent in the public statements.

I believe that LE likely knows what happened and who was involved, but for certain crimes, it's hard to charge those responsible without a body, or locating & rescuing a kidnapping victim.

Hi Eagle -

The only thing I can confirm is that they said that they were there! They checked into places there via Facebook. Without spending too much time right now, I believe they were in the Ocean City, MD. area on or around August 18th. I know it was MR & CP plus a few other friends. I'd have to dig deeper for more details.

 

[eagle5516]

Hi Eagle -

The only thing I can confirm is that they said that they were there! They checked into places there via Facebook. Without spending too much time right now, I believe they were in the Ocean City, MD. area on or around August 18th. I know it was MR & CP plus a few other friends. I'd have to dig deeper for more details.

Thanks for confirming. It sounds like they did make it there, and the trip is more of an example of indifference to her disappearance than something more sinister. Please do not inquire into any more details if that means contacting anyone directly or asking around in a way that puts yourself out there. Most of us stand at a distance from KS's disappearance, but I think that anyone who is local to the Palmyra area should be careful.

So much of what we discuss here is based on rumor, but the fact is that KS is missing and multiple people in her life seem to have regular contact with the system. No one should do anything that's potentially-dangerous to themselves based on some internet theories.

That being said, it is interesting to me that the two individuals who were interrogated by LE (not sure it was before or after the trip) left the state shortly after KS's disappearance. But, I am assuming that LE knows about the Ocean City trip.

Meems & Chanler, points well taken on the language in the search warrant. I may have been overstating the "possible kidnapping" language from the police in order to think through the out-of-state trip angle. Still, I wanted to confirm that LE have not labeled this a "criminal" disappearance/investigation. Is this something that they've said publicly? If so, I'm guessing this may be pretty standard in these types of cases before there has been an arrest or without more obvious signs of foul play.

As far as the gap between the disappearance and the O.C. trip, it seems possible that she was alive for some period of time after she disappeared (and there is the extremely unlikely possibility that she is still alive). There are the unconfirmed sightings of her in the area the disappearance, and her FB posts about wanting to get away/feeling depressed. Also possible that she left with one or more of her "protectors" willingly, but in the end it was a set-up, or there was some falling-out afterwards. The latter possibility, that she was tricked into leaving willingly with someone she knew, is my best guess as to what happened. I agree about Ocean City not being the most discrete place to get rid of evidence, but places along the way may be.

Also, I further checked out the details of the house-fire link from MD that I posted earlier. While there are no further news articles on the fire, there was a funeral service for the owner of the house, with an obituary noting that he died on Nov. 5, same day as the fire. So no connection there.

 

[Chanler]

Thanks for confirming. It sounds like they did make it there, and the trip is more of an example of indifference to her disappearance than something more sinister. Please do not inquire into any more details if that means contacting anyone directly or asking around in a way that puts yourself out there. Most of us stand at a distance from KS's disappearance, but I think that anyone who is local to the Palmyra area should be careful.

So much of what we discuss here is based on rumor, but the fact is that KS is missing and multiple people in her life seem to have regular contact with the system. No one should do anything that's potentially-dangerous to themselves based on some internet theories.

That being said, it is interesting to me that the two individuals who were interrogated by LE (not sure it was before or after the trip) left the state shortly after KS's disappearance. But, I am assuming that LE knows about the Ocean City trip.

Meems & Chanler, points well taken on the language in the search warrant. I may have been overstating the "possible kidnapping" language from the police in order to think through the out-of-state trip angle. Still, I wanted to confirm that LE have not labeled this a "criminal" disappearance/investigation. Is this something that they've said publicly? If so, I'm guessing this may be pretty standard in these types of cases before there has been an arrest or without more obvious signs of foul play.

As far as the gap between the disappearance and the O.C. trip, it seems possible that she was alive for some period of time after she disappeared (and there is the extremely unlikely possibility that she is still alive). There are the unconfirmed sightings of her in the area the disappearance, and her FB posts about wanting to get away/feeling depressed. Also possible that she left with one or more of her "protectors" willingly, but in the end it was a set-up, or there was some falling-out afterwards. The latter possibility, that she was tricked into leaving willingly with someone she knew, is my best guess as to what happened. I agree about Ocean City not being the most discrete place to get rid of evidence, but places along the way may be.

Also, I further checked out the details of the house-fire link from MD that I posted earlier. While there are no further news articles on the fire, there was a funeral service for the owner of the house, with an obituary noting that he died on Nov. 5, same day as the fire. So no connection there.

Hi, Eagle5516, thanks for your detailed, measured post. Your comment on so much in this case being based on rumor is so very true. I'm hoping that someone in the know will brag or blab to a friend. Many crimes get solved through second-hand informants.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

It's snowing in central PA today. I was thinking of Kortne while I was shoveling.

 

[cutter99]

This article recapping the 2012 year in Lebanon specifically talks about Kortne, but offers nothing new.

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci...p-stories-2012-one-missing?source=most_viewed

 

[SnoopJohnB]

This article recapping the 2012 year in Lebanon specifically talks about Kortne, but offers nothing new.

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci...p-stories-2012-one-missing?source=most_viewed

Looks like the reporter did not do a lot of homework. It's says "The officer returned for another call at 4:12 a.m., but nobody answered the door this time." LE always refused to say what officer responded the second time.

 

[sreshowtime]

Was any info ever released regarding any texts, calls, or internet activity during the evening, and leading into the early morning hours? Has it ever been stated Kortne's last communication with anyone by those means?

 

[alliemay]

Are there any traffic camera's in that area, or any businesses in that area that have security camera's. I think of the cousins from Iowa that were caught on a camera riding their bikes before they went missing....not familiar with the area there in Palmyra but I think there is a car wash in the 100 block from her house, could be LE already checked that out, just some random thought...

 

[cutter99]

There are nearby businesses with cameras but it has been reported that the police did not check them in a timely manner and they had recorded over any possible images.

The only text that was mentioned, if I recall correctly, was CP's text on Sunday morning from a local convenience store to Kortne asking where she was.

 

[Meems]

Was any info ever released regarding any texts, calls, or internet activity during the evening, and leading into the early morning hours? Has it ever been stated Kortne's last communication with anyone by those means?

IIRC there was an early article saying that Kortnes brother was going thru texts (before LE got the phones) and nothing looked out of ordinary to the family with her texts or phone communication. And it doesn't seem to date (with what limited info they seem to have) that her texts or calls revealed much if anything. (but then again .. we don't know what info they do have)

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

Have SS's public records been discussed? Nothing major there, but he appears to have been well known to local LE and possibly even considered a nuisance based upon the type and number of incidents. Could this, as well KS's frequent interaction with LE, be the cause for a less than enthusiastic investigation?

 

[sreshowtime]

Does anyone think Kortne may actually have left the apt, for whatever reason, with or without anyone, during that supposed noise right prior to the last call to the police? And by the time police responded, it was quiet?

 

[Eileen730]

Looks like the reporter did not do a lot of homework. It's says "The officer returned for another call at 4:12 a.m., but nobody answered the door this time." LE always refused to say what officer responded the second time.

I would think it was the same officer! and he was probably very close by!

JMO

 

[Meems]

Have SS's public records been discussed? Nothing major there, but he appears to have been well known to local LE and possibly even considered a nuisance based upon the type and number of incidents. Could this, as well KS's frequent interaction with LE, be the cause for a less than enthusiastic investigation?

Most not really within he same jurisdiction though i don't think .. meaning .. same county at the DJ level but not necessarily LE interaction. Most of Kortnes were the Burough PD I believe.

 

[Meems]

Does anyone think Kortne may actually have left the apt, for whatever reason, with or without anyone, during that supposed noise right prior to the last call to the police? And by the time police responded, it was quiet?

Its definately a possibility .. It's also (IMO) a possibility that CP may have left as well along with her. They may have left after her stomping to make the neighbors mad and gone to someone elses house to party. It's only his word that says he passed out there until 7:30 am.

 

[Meems]

Happy New Year Hippy Girl .. May this be the year of answers for you, your family and so many others in this same position.

 

[looks like rain]

I am still here for you Kortne. I'm hoping you will be found very soon. I wish we all could see your smiling face right now! Peace and Happy New Year!