Patsy and the 911 Call

[Camper]

That could very well be 'the' choreography of 'that' morning.

Keep in mind also that Fleet White hustled Burke OUTTA the house ASAP. Why do that IF IF it is supposed to look like a kidnapping, maybe someone would want to kidnap Burke too, why jeopardize Burke by letting him leave the home 'that' morning, with BPD present to protect the family, huh, er, well maybe they would have been up to protecting the family.
They did not do a good job of protecting the crime scene from being muddied up, folks washing dishes in the kitchen and BPD sending 'just folks' to look around the house.

In the cursory search the PD missed opening the door, behind which was JonBenet, hmmm.



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[narlacat]

Ramseys lived just six blocks from the Stines. Donut be so hard on BC.

Having a sleepover to please the boys would not be an impossible deal. Burke could sleep on the plane the next day. Busy folks on the go think nothing of picking up a kid to play with theirs, or dropping a kid off. My daughter and her friends do it all the time, so their sons can have another boy to play with, or because of family schedules, it helps each family out.

In the photos of the interior of the Ramsey home it shows clearly that Burkes bed was neatly made. Did Ramseys make the bed, fluffing the pillows and changing one pillowcase, in case dna on there? Did Burke make the bed, I rather doubt it, unless he was never in it 'that' night. IF IF IF Patsy OR John was a neat freak, did they make Burkes bed for show that morning, IF IF IF they did, why didn't they make their own bed..

Here is a link that has most of the photos taken of the interior of the Ramsey home. Please note that the Ramsey marriage bed was NOT made 'that' morning. Why was Burkes bed made? When was it made? Who made it?

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_408302,00.html

Edited to add another note. In looking at the Ramsey bed, one pillow looks like it had had a rough night squished up in a knot, the other was rather undented.


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Apparently Fleet made Burkes bed before they left that morning for Burke to go with the Fleets. Yeah right,as if thats going to happen....amid all the chaos id better just make that bed. Maybe that bed wasnt slept in at all...

 

[narlacat]

Just to add....if there were an accident between JB and Burke...which resulted in JB's death a matter of hours isnt a long time to work a story out especially in the state they all must have been in.
Even though i do believe Patsy and John staged the body,its hard for me to grasp they could have strangled her like that...i mean to me as a definite layman,that strangling looked savage. Could John or Patsy do that and make it look like she was sexually assaulted...could someone do that to protect another one of their children...

 

[BlueCrab]

Just to add....if there were an accident between JB and Burke...which resulted in JB's death a matter of hours isnt a long time to work a story out especially in the state they all must have been in.
Even though i do believe Patsy and John staged the body,its hard for me to grasp they could have strangled her like that...i mean to me as a definite layman,that strangling looked savage. Could John or Patsy do that and make it look like she was sexually assaulted...could someone do that to protect another one of their children...

narlacat,

And please remember that the gory stages of this crime all took place within about a one-hour period. There was only around a 60-minute window from when JonBenet ate the pineapple and, in accordance with the digested condition of the pineapple in her small intestine, when she was killed.

So in one hour we go from JonBenet happily snacking on pineapple at the breakfast room table with Burke, to her body being battered, tied up with hands over her head, stungunned, strangled with a ligature around her neck, and brutally smashed in the head with what was probably a baseball bat.

I too don't see a parent doing this. IMO it's the work of someone who has not yet developed the conscience of most adults and especially the conscience of a parent -- such as children.

 

[Camper]

narlacat,

And please remember that the gory stages of this crime all took place within about a one-hour period. There was only around a 60-minute window from when JonBenet ate the pineapple and, in accordance with the digested condition of the pineapple in her small intestine, when she was killed.

So in one hour we go from JonBenet happily snacking on pineapple at the breakfast room table with Burke, to her body being battered, tied up with hands over her head, stungunned, strangled with a ligature around her neck, and brutally smashed in the head with what was probably a baseball bat.

I too don't see a parent doing this. IMO it's the work of someone who has not yet developed the conscience of most adults and especially the conscience of a parent -- such as children.

----------->>>I am in a rush this morn leaving for the day, BUT BC you forgot Burke's thumbprint on the pineapple bowl.



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[UKGuy]

narlacat,

And please remember that the gory stages of this crime all took place within about a one-hour period. There was only around a 60-minute window from when JonBenet ate the pineapple and, in accordance with the digested condition of the pineapple in her small intestine, when she was killed.

So in one hour we go from JonBenet happily snacking on pineapple at the breakfast room table with Burke, to her body being battered, tied up with hands over her head, stungunned, strangled with a ligature around her neck, and brutally smashed in the head with what was probably a baseball bat.

I too don't see a parent doing this. IMO it's the work of someone who has not yet developed the conscience of most adults and especially the conscience of a parent -- such as children.

BlueCrab,

Maybe not a parent, but possibly an immature adult or teenager!

Also I am not convinced that the pineapple was consumed downstairs in the breakfast bar. Although Burkes fingerprints are on the bowl, they are not on the tea-glass which is counter-intuitive.

The staging you describe was probably done by different people over a longer timescale.

JonBenet's murder is a staged homicide, there was so much evidence relocated, its difficult to decide whats genuine and whats not e.g. Burke's bed being made, JonBenet's bed does not look slept in, yet the parents bed does. Although Patsy rises wearing the same clothes as the day before.

So apart from self-preservation, and assuming one of John or Patsy were not responsible for JonBenet's death, just why should they involve themselves in a coverup thats the big question that needs answering?

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[tipper]

...
Also I am not convinced that the pineapple was consumed downstairs in the breakfast bar. Although Burkes fingerprints are on the bowl, they are not on the tea-glass which is counter-intuitive.

The staging you describe was probably done by different people over a longer timescale.

JonBenet's murder is a staged homicide, there was so much evidence relocated, its difficult to decide whats genuine and whats not e.g. Burke's bed being made, JonBenet's bed does not look slept in, yet the parents bed does. Although Patsy rises wearing the same clothes as the day before.

...

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I'm not convinced she didn't eat the pineapple before going to the Whites. We have yet to hear what she did eat at the party. Our general knowledge of digestion is minimal and less than that for children, let alone excited children.

We know Burke was in his bed when the police initially looked in on him. My understanding is his bed was made by Fleet White while John was explaining to Burke that JonBenet was missing etc and that he was going over to the White's house. JonBenet's bed looks slept in to me. I see my kids' beds every morning and don't see any difference. Lastly, Patsy didn't wear the same clothes she wore the day before. She wore clothes she'd worn for a few hours the evening before. I've done the same thing as it's much easier than planning a whole new outfit. I think the only people who can reasonable criticize her for that are those who change their clothes at noon because they feel wearing something 4-5 hours makes it too dirty to continue on with.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

Maybe not a parent, but possibly an immature adult or teenager!

Also I am not convinced that the pineapple was consumed downstairs in the breakfast bar. Although Burkes fingerprints are on the bowl, they are not on the tea-glass which is counter-intuitive.

The staging you describe was probably done by different people over a longer timescale.

JonBenet's murder is a staged homicide, there was so much evidence relocated, its difficult to decide whats genuine and whats not e.g. Burke's bed being made, JonBenet's bed does not look slept in, yet the parents bed does. Although Patsy rises wearing the same clothes as the day before.

So apart from self-preservation, and assuming one of John or Patsy were not responsible for JonBenet's death, just why should they involve themselves in a coverup thats the big question that needs answering?

.

UKGuy,

Yes, I agree there could have been an immature male adult involved, instead of a teen, who contributed to the naive and obviously fake ransom note. N.I. was 21 when JonBenet died and, if an APAC member was involved, he would also be about the same age (18 to 21). In any event, I see a degree of immaturity in that note.

Just for the record, the pineapple was not consumed at the breakfast bar in the kitchen. The evidence points to it being eaten in the breakfast room, a separate room off from the kitchen with its own table and chairs. The bowl of pineapple and the waterglass with a teabag in it were on that table. It's never been made public if there were fingerprints found on the waterglass or the big serving spoon sticking out of the relatively small bowl of pineapple.

 

[Camper]

UKGuy,

Yes, I agree there could have been an immature male adult involved, instead of a teen, who contributed to the naive and obviously fake ransom note. N.I. was 21 when JonBenet died and, if an APAC member was involved, he would also be about the same age (18 to 21). In any event, I see a degree of immaturity in that note.

Just for the record, the pineapple was not consumed at the breakfast bar in the kitchen. The evidence points to it being eaten in the breakfast room, a separate room off from the kitchen with its own table and chairs. The bowl of pineapple and the waterglass with a teabag in it were on that table. It's never been made public if there were fingerprints found on the waterglass or the big serving spoon sticking out of the relatively small bowl of pineapple.

---------->>>Keep in mind also that some dishes were tidied up by the 'invited' friends the morning of 12/26/96. Whose dishes or glasses or what 'were' washed that morning?


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[Toltec]

Interesting audio Voice of Reason...

From Steve Thomas book: pg 15....

Their (Aerospace Corporation) work produced a startling conclusion. Patsy apparently had trouble hanging up the telephone, and before it rested on its cradle she was heard to moan: "Help me, Jesus. Help me, Jesus" Her husband was heard to bark, "We're not talking to you." And in the background was a young-sounding voice: "What did you find?" It was JonBenet's brother, Burke.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Fasinating deconstruction of this 911 tape.

I had one, over-arching impression of the phrase interpreted to read "(it) wasn't me". I presume that such a declarative statement was in response to a question, or the "look" that infers a question (you know that look that parents give their children sometimes?). That's where I begin to carefully parse the possible reasoning behind this Question/Answer exchange...check it...

When a parent gives a child "the look", it is likely to be a reflex reaction, based on their experience with that child. Eg., the child (i.e. BR) has demonstrated behavior in the past, that would cause the parents to suspect his participation in the present. In a nutshell - prior acts.

BR's response (if that indeed, is what he said), sounds very defensive. And even more unsettling, is that he appears to be more intent on "shifting blame", than expressing his horror and shock at what has happened to his sister.

You guys always have the most interesting takes on various aspect of this case.

 

[Miss Daisey]

Over the course of a week, I've played that enhancement of the 911 tapes a zillion times. I don't hear a thing on there that sounds like Burke or anyone else. If you did, perhaps it was the suggestion that it was he????????

 

[K777angel]

I am curious how many who have listened to the recording of Patsy's 911 call the morning of the 26th think that she sounded sincerely panicked etc.
I remember in Schiller's book I think it was, that he relayed that when Alex Hunter first listened to the 911 phone call tape of Patsy he commented that he didn't think she sounded as distraught as he would have expected.
I've had mixed feelings about that call.
But then I watched a true crime program the other night on either A&E or Court TV about a man who called 911 after he'd "accidentally" shot his wife in their home. His call was VERY believable. All the right emotions and words and plenty of "hurry ups" to get here's etc. And it turns out he killed her on purpose! Made it look like an accident. Took years to nail him but they finally did.
It got me thinking about Patsy's "frantic" phone call that morning.
I remember when I first heard it I thought it sounded pretty sincere. Especially her, "Oh my God!". Although I have always believe she was involved in the crime at some level and KNEW what had happened, in trying to be objective and keeping an open mind this is one thing I've always admitted to myself belongs in the "possibly innocent" category. As short as the items in that list are.
So now I am rethinking that after hearing another real life 911 call from someone who also sounded sincere but turned out to be guilty as **ll.

What is your honest opinion about Patsy's demeanor and her statements to the police that morning?

 

[TLynn]

When I first heard it, I got chills. It could've been believable...however, the problem I have is how fast they called 911.

The note said not to - there was no thinking about it - no, maybe we should call from the cell phone - no, maybe we should call the FBI - no, maybe, we're being watched and police can't show up here - no, maybe anything.

No conversation on what to do...Not ever John thinking about it on his own before stating call the police.

Not one - "Oh my God, what do we do?"

 

[K777angel]

When I first heard it, I got chills. It could've been believable...however, the problem I have is how fast they called 911.

The note said not to - there was no thinking about it - no, maybe we should call from the cell phone - no, maybe we should call the FBI - no, maybe, we're being watched and police can't show up here - no, maybe anything.

No conversation on what to do...Not ever John thinking about it on his own before stating call the police.

Not one - "Oh my God, what do we do?"

Good point TLynn. You know Patsy didn't even mention to the 911 operator that the note warned not to call police, FBI etc. or they'd harm their daughter. In fact, the actions all morning show they both completely ignored ANY warning in the note. Bolstering the fact the note was fake and written by one of them of course.
But the other point to make, and that some authorities noted, is how much clarity Patsy had in the phone call to police. She had no trouble remembering her house address for instance - something parents often cannot do in this kind of crisis and trauma.
And I've always found it so curious that is was PATSY who made that phone call and not John. Mr. CEO. Mr. in control. She sounded awfully 'together' for what she claims she just found out in the note.

 

[BlueCrab]

It was a PERFORMANCE. Patsy likely got psyched up for it by running up a short flight of stairs to give her what she thought would sound like she was gasping from shock, but which instead sounded more like she was temporarily out of breath from a short run. The panting stopped toward the end of the 911 call.

Also, Patsy terminated the call while the 911 dispatcher was still talking to her. Why would she do something like that during the most important telephone call she would ever make in her lifetime? After Patsy abruptly and prematurely terminated the 911 call she immediately called her friends asking them to come over, "and bring someone with you".

The 911 call was a performance, and that's likely why John had Patsy do it. Patsy had lots of experience along those lines. A solo performance on stage is how Patsy became Miss West Virginia.

BlueCrab

 

[Lacy Wood]

BC, is it confirmed that PR said words to the effect of come over and bring someone with you? If true, the 'bringing someone' wording has the ring of intentionally creating a distraction for police at the home. Seeking comfort of a friend could be explained, but seeking a crowd is something very different.

 

[tipper]

23 JOHN RAMSEY: I remember us both being kind

24 of in this area. She was in here, I was here on

25 the floor. She was just hysterical.

0135

1 LOU SMIT: Was she asking you any questions?

2 JOHN RAMSEY: What should we do, what should

3 we do. And if we should call the police. And there

4 was a (INAUDIBLE) that says not to call the

5 police, so I called the police anyway. But she

6 did; she called 911. And then she also called the

7 Whites and the Fernies.

8 LOU SMIT: Why would she? Why did she do that?

9 JOHN RAMSEY: They were close friends. And

10 I remember her just screaming, (Come over, come

11 over.̃

 

[GuruJosh]

if it was a performance, i thought it was a very good one. The "distractedness" of someone worrying about their child comes through strongly.

what i wouldn't give to hear the enhanced last seconds of the 911 call At the moment i have a sinking feeling it might sound like John Lennon supposedly saying "i...buried....Paul...." at the end of Strawberry Fields Forever

many, many aspects of this case have been leaked to the media. The autopsy photos, the ransom note, details about suspects, etc.

The BPD must have made good copies of the enhanced call. If the voices on the enhanced tape are clear & genuine, the enhanced call proves that the Ramseys misled the cops... and it also implies (in my mind, in my opinion) that Burke was involved. We're not talking to YOU.

I can't believe no one's leaked it.

 

[BlueCrab]

BC, is it confirmed that PR said words to the effect of come over and bring someone with you? If true, the 'bringing someone' wording has the ring of intentionally creating a distraction for police at the home. Seeking comfort of a friend could be explained, but seeking a crowd is something very different.

Lacy Wood,

Yes, Patsy blew it once again during the interviews when she got flabbergasted and unwittingly let it be known she wanted people in the house that morning (ostensibly to help contaminate evidence). Patsy wasn't specific on WHO should come over, so long as it was someone. For instance, on June 23, 1998:

PATSY RAMSEY: "Then I hung up the phone and called the Fernies. And I believe John Fernie answered."

TOM HANEY: "Do you recall exactly what you told him?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "I said -- I said -- I am not sure if I told him -- I just can't remember what I told. 'Oh please, you got to come, please can you bring someone over' or something. I don't remember."

BlueCrab