Patsy's deft two-step

[Toltec]

Dingo
I think Patsy did, but dont quote me.

Bwaahaaahaa!

 

[duffy]

Obviously this muder will never go to trial because it is so screwed up. I don't buy the theory of "the other dude" doing it but even if they did find someone a half-a** defense attorney could create reasonable doubt because of what everyone from the cops, to the d.a. to the ramsey's have done.

I don't know about the ramsey's comforting each other or not but I do know they lawyered up and avoided the police for 4 months. Everyone knows the cops are going to look at the family first. If the ramsey's didn't have anything to hide I just don't believe they would have avoided the cops like they did for as long as they did. I'd be in contact with the cops driving them frickin crazy probably telling them how to run their investigation!

patsy also would not to do an hour long America's Most Wanted with John Walsh even though she was willing to appear on other tv shows. I think jr's response to the murderer receiving the death penalty is also very damning.

There are just so many reasons I don't think "the other dude did it".

In a court of law a person is innocent until proven guilty. In the court of Duffy's opinion the ramseys are just plain guilty.

 

[tipper]

I think it's possible that Patsy feels (as did Dorthy Moxley) that so much time has passed that a killer won't be charged. Perhaps she has comes to terms with that belief (as had Dorthy Moxley). I would be curious as to her reasons for not wanting to do AMW. They did cover the case on Sep 6 1997. I wasn't interested at that point but my understanding is several errors were made in the information presented. That also might color her thinking. I'd like to know what their conversations about it were.

As far as the "lawyering-up" goes - I found this regarding J. Wilbank's fiance (who you will recall also 'lawyered-up' and was refusing a police sponsored polygraph) and it seems relevant here.

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_domestic.html

When Jennifer Wilbanks [Google search], the "Runaway Bride," disappeared, her fiance John Mason was immediately suspected by not only the police, but the public at large. I personally was dragged over the coals in comments on various posts I made about the case after Wilbanks returned, and frankly, I deserved much of it -- the truth was I jumped on a stupid bandwagon about Mason. John really didn't show much indication he was anything like a Peterson or a Hacking; he seemed a little uncomfortable with interviews, not glib or smooth. His background was pretty straightforward; no hints of even any little white lies. Most people, me included, went by his demeanor. Turned out in John's case he was just like a lot of my southern white male brethren raised in a certain milieu; trained to keep it all under control, as anything else would be a little "unmanly." Later reports indicate John was losing it a little behind the scenes, snapping at friends and family. That was normal. John Mason also admitted freely in interviews after Wilbanks showed up safely in New Mexico that while he understood that the boyfriend or spouse is often the first person suspected in the disappearance and/or murder of a woman, it still made him angry. As it would me, or any other non-psychopathic man.

 

[duffy]

I don't know Tipper, maybe I'd just be a dumb okie sent to prison for something I didn't do. 1. I would never harm a family member and 2. coming from a family where everyone else is a cop besides me I would cooperate with the police completely.

When I found out my youngest daughter had been molested by my ex I did practically run the cops investigation. They didn't want to have anything to do with it because the offense took place from ages 8-12, she was now 17 and no longer in danger. I made countless phone calls, a local detective and his D.A. wrote letters on our behalf and in the end putting a phone call in to the sheriff and letting them know my next phone call would be to the Attorney General, is just part of what I had to do to get them to move on this. I pissed off more than a couple of people and know my name was equalled to bi*ch but as I told them "I wasn't looking for a new best friend and I wasn't just gonna go away". One investigator got so mad at me and the only thing that calmed him down was my asking him if this were his daughter would he just let it drop? When we did go to trial and I met this man in person he was still very hostile towards me. Oh welllll........

In our case I knew they were over-worked and had more than their fair share of new cases to deal with but my daughter needed to face the person who violated her/our trust in court and let him know just how much she hated what he did.

I understand what you're saying about J.W. fiance'. I saw very little of this situation and the first thing that came to my mind was "Oh, great another one kills his fiance'/wife/gf whatever". I will say, although it was my initial response I did reserve judgement.

I think it is one thing to employ an attorney to assist you in an interview the cops would want to have with you, completely another to hide behind an attorney for 4 months to avoid such an interview.

Even though John Mason was angry at law enforcement he did still co-operate with the assistance of an attorney and Jennifer was brought home.

 

[tipper]

I just wish they had had someone in charge like the sheriff in the Susan Smith case. I think, if guilty, Patsy would have never been able to hold it in, especially if someone was sympathetic and seemingly supportive of her. I may be wrong but my impression is they were talking with DA detectives early on. It was BPD detectives and their requirements that were the stumbling blocks.

I don't think in the long run their lawyers did them any favors. If both sides had been less bull-headed and if BPD had had the experience to not handle this as a paint-by-numbers investigation this might have had a better outcome.

 

[BlueCrab]

It was BPD detectives and their requirements that were the stumbling blocks.

tipper,

I respectfully disagree. It was the Ramseys who were the stumbling blocks. They were lying even before the investigation began (the 911 call), and have never stopped lying to this day. The Ramseys hired an attorney by 5 PM on day one (the 26th) so as not to be required to answer questions. It wasn't until four months later that the detectives finally got the opportunity to question them.

And you say the BPD was the stumbling block? PULLEEEZE!

 

[Nehemiah]

I think it's possible that Patsy feels (as did Dorthy Moxley) that so much time has passed that a killer won't be charged. Perhaps she has comes to terms with that belief (as had Dorthy Moxley). I would be curious as to her reasons for not wanting to do AMW. They did cover the case on Sep 6 1997. I wasn't interested at that point but my understanding is several errors were made in the information presented. That also might color her thinking. I'd like to know what their conversations about it were.

But wow, Tipper, there was so much difference in the way that the Moxleys acted as compared to the Ramseys. Dorothy and her son kept the investigation going for all those years. I really admire their persistence and perseverance. Do you know the Moxleys, or did you live near them when the crime occurred?

 

[unjaded]

to me it makes more sense to stoop and pick something up before your foot is about to land there then to skip an entire step and then turn back to look. if she is agile enough to skip a step, she is agile enough to bend over and pick something up off the stair that otherwise blocks her from using it.

Actually, this very thing happened to me last night. My oldest son left his math book and notebook on the staircase. I noticed it as I was coming down. Instead of reaching down and picking it up from the step above it (as I would feel like I was falling forward on the stairs) I hopped over it to the next step and turned around and picked it up. I did this all without thinking about it. After reading this thread today and then thinking back on other times my kids have left something on the stairs the scenario is always the same. If I'm coming down, I hop over it and then turn around and pick it up. There's just something about leaning over forward on a staricase that isn't safe to me.

 

[Camper]

Any persons center of gravity is displaced when doing a maneuver like 'bending over' to the next step down from where their feet are. A person might turn sideways on their own step, squat and pick up an item, but to lean over would mean a 'fall'.

A proverbial blond, might do such a tactic, if her center of gravity were small enough, she might get away with it without injury.



.

 

[deanws]

The detectives "leaked" to the press that the window was too small for a human to fit through. Weeks , months went by , we believed this.
I have skipped over a step or two to avoid stepping on the dog/cat ,my husband ,however, can not, he nudges them to move out of his way. He can jump the fence, I can't, maybe I'm more agile, and he's more powerful?
IMO there's no problem with Patsy hopping over a step or two.

I think they are guilty as sin. That being said, I have lived in houses with stairs all my life. I can easily skip steps, as well as run up and down the steps with great speed. My children can too. In fact, I had to threaten to ground my kiddos when they were growing up to NOT hop down the steps in that way. So, I believe that it all depends what you are used to. Someone who hasn't done this all their life might have a greater problem holding their balance than others that were skilled in the step climbing routine.

 

[mjak]

I have always wondered why Patsy did not pick up the letter. Even if she hopped over it and turned around to read it why once she read that her daughter has been taken didn't she grab it as she ran up the stairs to JB's room. I think my instinct would be to grab that letter . I know I would not have the presence of mind to think ow wait this cold be evidence I should not touch it". I would grab that letter start screaming and charge to my daughters Room.

mjak

 

[Brefie]

I have always wondered why Patsy did not pick up the letter. Even if she hopped over it and turned around to read it why once she read that her daughter has been taken didn't she grab it as she ran up the stairs to JB's room. I think my instinct would be to grab that letter . I know I would not have the presence of mind to think ow wait this cold be evidence I should not touch it". I would grab that letter start screaming and charge to my daughters Room.

mjak

I think it's safe to say that evidence preservation was not high on the Ramsey's list.

 

[mjak]

I think it's safe to say that evidence preservation was not high on the Ramsey's list.

Why do you think she did not grab the letter?

mjak

 

[Brefie]

Why do you think she did not grab the letter?

mjak

I don't think that when Patsy says she first saw the letter is the truth.

 

[Eagle1]

From a couple of pages back, where some were speculating about prints in that weather, According to ST's book, there was frost, not snow, on JonBenet's balcony, but no footprints. I believe there was a bicycle track, and we didn't mention that possibly that could have been a paper boy, a little off course, taking a swing through that yard for some reason.

I think this was discussed in one of the threads about Nathan I., college kid who babysat for the Stines. Did you guess that I can't spell the last name? Inouye?

Whoever was walking toward the house, seen by neighbor Barnhill, before dark, I think must have had something to do with all this. He resembled JAR. (Was the walker also wearing a long overcoat, or am I confusing him with a couple of others in other locations?) I think it's important to know if both FW's Ca. guests were at the dinner with the R's, since in another thread today someone said PR offered to let any overflow guests use their house. Obviously when they returned from the Whites' they didn't check bedrooms to see if anyone was there.

 

[Leve]

Does it ever say what step the note was on? If it was the last step I could see both her skipping it and JR on the floor reading it. I couldn't see her skipping steps in the twisty part of the staircase unless she slide down the pole. Although I'm used to running up and down stairs, a spiral staircase is a different situation entirely.

Still her story doesn't make sense. I'd think an intruder would leave the note on a table or JBR's bed. Leaving it on the spiral staircase seems odd to me.

 

[Brefie]

Wasn't Patsy very quick to offer up that she always used those stairs? How would an intruder know that? I agree that a stranger would *probably* put it on her bed. However, that is pure speculation on my part.

 

[mjak]

I thnk leaving a ransome note on a stairway is strange. I would also think of leaving it on her bed or the kitchen table. So we have a strange location for a wacko randsom letter for a non kidnapped child... Maybe in this foriegn factions memmbers country this is how they do kidnappings???
Of course that expalins it (lol)

mjak

 

[Toltec]

Why do you think she did not grab the letter?

mjak

For the same reason John didn't touch it...keeping their dirty paws off of it.

Both John and Patsy bent over and read the ransom letter....

Hmmmmm.

 

[Brefie]

For the same reason John didn't touch it...keeping their dirty paws off of it.

Both John and Patsy bent over and read the ransom letter....

Hmmmmm.

Why though? Anyone (even me) would forgive them for grabbing it.