Patsy's deft two-step

[Holdontoyourhat]

I thnk leaving a ransome note on a stairway is strange. I would also think of leaving it on her bed or the kitchen table. So we have a strange location for a wacko randsom letter for a non kidnapped child... Maybe in this foriegn factions memmbers country this is how they do kidnappings???
Of course that expalins it (lol)

mjak

The stairway represents a conspicuous place for the intruder to leave a note. Anyone finding JBR missing from her bed is going to find the note before they find JBR. The fact that the note was placed in such a way as to target the upstairs occupants of the house as they travel downstairs has been largely overlooked by RDI. I'm not sure why. Maybe its to coverup a brutal child murder by an intruder, and make it look like an accident?

 

[mjak]

The stairway represents a conspicuous place for the intruder to leave a note. Anyone finding JBR missing from her bed is going to find the note before they find JBR. The fact that the note was placed in such a way as to target the upstairs occupants of the house as they travel downstairs has been largely overlooked by RDI. I'm not sure why. Maybe its to coverup a brutal child murder by an intruder, and make it look like an accident?

I believe it was a backstair way where the note was left. It just so happens that this was the stairway the Ramseys frequently use but had the Intruder wanted to place on a stairway so as not to be missed by the Ramseys wouldn't he have picked the main stairway. Unless of course he new they were in the habit of using the back stairway.

mjak

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I believe it was a backstair way where the note was left. It just so happens that this was the stairway the Ramseys frequently use but had the Intruder wanted to place on a stairway so as not to be missed by the Ramseys wouldn't he have picked the main stairway. Unless of course he new they were in the habit of using the back stairway.

mjak

Parents conducting a house search for their daughter, missing from her bed, are going to find the note on either staircase way before they find JBR. She was in a remote corner of the basement.

 

[tipper]

I believe it was a backstair way where the note was left. It just so happens that this was the stairway the Ramseys frequently use but had the Intruder wanted to place on a stairway so as not to be missed by the Ramseys wouldn't he have picked the main stairway. Unless of course he new they were in the habit of using the back stairway.

mjak

I think logically the stairway nearest the kitchen would be the one most likely used in the morning. Although it's possible he knew their habits.

 

[Brefie]

Hmm....but Patsy is not quite sure whether she saw the empty bed or the note first. She gave differing accounts, so I guess the bed or the stairs were as good a spot as each other.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Hmm....but Patsy is not quite sure whether she saw the empty bed or the note first. She gave differing accounts, so I guess the bed or the stairs were as good a spot as each other.

Yeah, the first story was that she went into JB's room to wake her up and found the bed empty, then she said she came downstairs and found the note. Then she changed it to she came downstairs and found the naote without stopping by JB's room first. Why two differing accounts, if she's not lying about it? And why would you awaken JB before you did all of your morning routine, such as preparing coffee? After she changed her story, she claimed that they usually waited til the last minute to awaken the children, and sometimes loaded them on the plane in their pajamas so they could keep sleeping. Those two stories do not match up at all. Why lie if an intruder killed JonBenet?

 

[Brefie]

Why lie if an intruder killed JonBenet?

Reason #55315464313465 as to why the Ramsey's have not been cleared and remain prime suspects for people worldwide.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Reason #55315464313465 as to why the Ramsey's have not been cleared and remain prime suspects for people worldwide.

Maybe you're right. I feel I've read 55315464313465 reasons, but they all seem to be based on post-murder observations.

Unfortunately, thats a bad sign of being caught up in circular reasoning: using the R's post-murder actions to supplement the suspicions that originated with the murder itself. Thats just wrong. It would look less like circular reasoning if maybe one of the billion reasons was a pre-murder reason.

 

[LinasK]

Maybe you're right. I feel I've read 55315464313465 reasons, but they all seem to be based on post-murder observations.

Unfortunately, thats a bad sign of being caught up in circular reasoning: using the R's post-murder actions to supplement the suspicions that originated with the murder itself. Thats just wrong. It would look less like circular reasoning if maybe one of the billion reasons was a pre-murder reason.

Nope, it was Scott Peterson's post-murder behavior that largely got him convicted, and might be the same in the Susan Polk murder trial, and the suspects in Natalee Holloway's case. Why act as if you have something to hide if you don't...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Nope, it was Scott Peterson's post-murder behavior that largely got him convicted, and might be the same in the Susan Polk murder trial, and the suspects in Natalee Holloway's case. Why act as if you have something to hide if you don't...

You couldn't, or at least you shouldn't, get a conviction even with a signed confession. After-the-fact behavior just doesn't make a case.

My point is that you can't automatically assign a bunch of suspicion to the R's, just because they were in the same house at the same time, and then tack on to that suspicion because they didn't behave in a way that meets an arbitrary standard. Thats just not right.

Its a different story if there is suspicious behavior beforehand that would help to establish a motive for murder.

Its also a different story if there is indication JBR was involved in an activity on the night in question, that would result in an 'accident' that needed to be 'covered up' to look like a capital murder.

Since there's no evidence of any such activity, there's really no case. I'm not sure if an opened dictionary or an eaten pineapple provide evidence of an accident coverup on their own.

 

[LinasK]

After-the-fact behavior just doesn't make a case.

Umm, yes it does. Guilty behavior like flight= consciousness of guilt, just like O.J.'s chase.

My point is that you can't automatically assign a bunch of suspicion to the R's, just because they were in the same house at the same time, and then tack on to that suspicion because they didn't behave in a way that meets an arbitrary standard. Thats just not right.

Refusing to meet with police for 4 months, not talking, and establishing conditions for talking to police is not an arbitrary standard.

Its a different story if there is suspicious behavior beforehand that would help to establish a motive for murder.

Its also a different story if there is indication JBR was involved in an activity on the night in question, that would result in an 'accident' that needed to be 'covered up' to look like a capital murder.

Since there's no evidence of any such activity, there's really no case. I'm not sure if an opened dictionary or an eaten pineapple provide evidence of an accident coverup on their own.

There has been evidence that JB was sexually abused, the garrote fits in with that situation. John carrying her up the stairs contaminated the evidence- works for a cover-up, also Patsy's writing the note fits.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat
After-the-fact behavior just doesn't make a case.

Umm, yes it does. Guilty behavior like flight= consciousness of guilt, just like O.J.'s chase.

My point is that you can't automatically assign a bunch of suspicion to the R's, just because they were in the same house at the same time, and then tack on to that suspicion because they didn't behave in a way that meets an arbitrary standard. Thats just not right.

Refusing to meet with police for 4 months, not talking, and establishing conditions for talking to police is not an arbitrary standard.

Its a different story if there is suspicious behavior beforehand that would help to establish a motive for murder.

Its also a different story if there is indication JBR was involved in an activity on the night in question, that would result in an 'accident' that needed to be 'covered up' to look like a capital murder.

Since there's no evidence of any such activity, there's really no case. I'm not sure if an opened dictionary or an eaten pineapple provide evidence of an accident coverup on their own.
There has been evidence that JB was sexually abused, the garrote fits in with that situation. John carrying her up the stairs contaminated the evidence- works for a cover-up, also Patsy's writing the note fits.

There has been evidence that JB was sexually abused, the garrote fits in with that situation. John carrying her up the stairs contaminated the evidence- works for a cover-up, also Patsy's writing the note fits.

OJ was found not-guilty, so his after-the-fact behavior didn't make the case.

The R's met with police most of that day, so they didn't 'refuse to meet with police for 4 months' like you said.

Besides, their behavior at that point was under legal advice, so how can you attribute it to them personally?

 

[Becba]

We post our notes on the fridge. Whoever killed her had duct tape. Tape it to the fridge.

Not laying on the stairs where Burke might get up and step on them or throw them away.

 

[LinasK]

Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat
After-the-fact behavior just doesn't make a case.

Umm, yes it does. Guilty behavior like flight= consciousness of guilt, just like O.J.'s chase.

My point is that you can't automatically assign a bunch of suspicion to the R's, just because they were in the same house at the same time, and then tack on to that suspicion because they didn't behave in a way that meets an arbitrary standard. Thats just not right.

Refusing to meet with police for 4 months, not talking, and establishing conditions for talking to police is not an arbitrary standard.

Its a different story if there is suspicious behavior beforehand that would help to establish a motive for murder.

Its also a different story if there is indication JBR was involved in an activity on the night in question, that would result in an 'accident' that needed to be 'covered up' to look like a capital murder.

Since there's no evidence of any such activity, there's really no case. I'm not sure if an opened dictionary or an eaten pineapple provide evidence of an accident coverup on their own.
There has been evidence that JB was sexually abused, the garrote fits in with that situation. John carrying her up the stairs contaminated the evidence- works for a cover-up, also Patsy's writing the note fits.





OJ was found not-guilty, so his after-the-fact behavior didn't make the case.

The R's met with police most of that day, so they didn't 'refuse to meet with police for 4 months' like you said.

Besides, their behavior at that point was under legal advice, so how can you attribute it to them personally?

O.J.'s chase was not entered into evidence, so we don't know if that would have made the difference. Scott Peterson's capture near the Mexican border did make it into his trial as I recall...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

O.J.'s chase was not entered into evidence, so we don't know if that would have made the difference. Scott Peterson's capture near the Mexican border did make it into his trial as I recall...

Fact is, it didn't make any difference.

There has been evidence that JB was sexually abused, the garrote fits in with that situation. John carrying her up the stairs contaminated the evidence- works for a cover-up, also Patsy's writing the note fits.

This is your opinion.

My opinion:

There's no indication whatsoever that JB was abused, aside from the night she was killed. The garrote fits in with a murder situation. After all, the coroner says she died from strangulation, and that is supported by the evidence.

JR carrying her upstairs is the direct result of LE asking him to search the house.

If Patsy's writing was a match, it would have been pinned in hours or days. So it doesn't match. The RN handwriting doesn't match anyone so far. Ask LE.

The evidence fits an intruder best.

 

[LinasK]

This is your opinion. No, read Laurence Schiller's book, also I have seen photos of JBR with bruises on her.

My opinion:

There's no indication whatsoever that JB was abused, aside from the night she was killed. The garrote fits in with a murder situation. After all, the coroner says she died from strangulation, and that is supported by the evidence.

JR carrying her upstairs is the direct result of LE asking him to search the house.

He could have yelled and called Linda Arndt downstairs if he were truly innocent, instead of destroying evidence by contaminating the crime scene. Anyone, even the parent of a murdered child knows that!:doh:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

He could have yelled and called Linda Arndt downstairs if her were truly innocent, instead of destroying evidence by contaminating the crime scene. Anyone, even the parent of a murdered child knows that!:doh:

You're gonna believe what you wanna believe. My guess is JR went into life-saving mode, and hadn't at that point concluded JBR was dead. Are you assuming he thought she was, when you don't really know?

 

[LinasK]

You're gonna believe what you wanna believe. My guess is JR went into life-saving mode, and hadn't at that point concluded JBR was dead. Are you assuming he thought she was, when you don't really know?

Okay, if I was in life-saving mode, I still wouldn't move someone, you do CPR where they are- they might have a broken back or such.

 

[narlacat]

You're gonna believe what you wanna believe. My guess is JR went into life-saving mode, and hadn't at that point concluded JBR was dead. Are you assuming he thought she was, when you don't really know?

John Ramsey is no fool and even a fool could have seen JonBenet was dead. He knew she was dead as he carried her up the stairs, how could he not...her body was stiff from rigor mortis and her lips were blue.

 

[SAGsun]

The stairway represents a conspicuous place for the intruder to leave a note. Anyone finding JBR missing from her bed is going to find the note before they find JBR. The fact that the note was placed in such a way as to target the upstairs occupants of the house as they travel downstairs has been largely overlooked by RDI. I'm not sure why. Maybe its to coverup a brutal child murder by an intruder, and make it look like an accident?

I agree with your assessment. However, this particular staircase was not the only one in the house. From Patsy's description, I got the impression it was not ordinarily used even by her.