People being detained and "exported" by ICE

[Kudzuu]

Let's not forget the forest for one tree.
This is about due process for all.

 

[Cedars]

1.... deport him somewhere besides a prison, besides El Salvador.

But he's a citizen of El Salvador. The US can't just foist him on some other country, no one wants him.

The whole landscape of gangs in El Salvador has changed, anyway. Whatever was true back when he was smuggled in, is no longer true.

I think the big issue being ignored here is:
what's going on with this administration's agreement with El Salvador?

-What are the terms of the contract to accept deportations?
-How much is the US paying the government of El Salvador, per prisoner?
-How long do they expect that government keep their own citizens, who have been deported from the US, locked up?
-What about this guy's family in El Salvador?? Don't they care that he's locked up? Do they get to visit him, lobby for his release into normal life?
-Is it fear that he will just sneak right back in to the US again?

Why is he being sent to prison???

 

[Cedars]

Let's not forget the forest for one tree.
This is about due process for all.

I would just comment though, "expedited due process" might be a compromise that both sides could live with.

It sounds to me like 'due process' means a judge who doesn't want to make a decision either way, gives the person some vague 'not a path to citizenship but not deportation either', and then the person's situation is allowed to continue for years just skating the border between legal and illegal...

JMO

 

[TheTeach]

But he's a citizen of El Salvador. The US can't just foist him on some other country, no one wants him.

The whole landscape of gangs in El Salvador has changed, anyway. Whatever was true back when he was smuggled in, is no longer true.

I think the big issue being ignored here is:
what's going on with this administration's agreement with El Salvador?

-What are the terms of the contract to accept deportations?
-How much is the US paying the government of El Salvador, per prisoner?
-How long do they expect that government keep their own citizens, who have been deported from the US, locked up?
-What about this guy's family in El Salvador?? Don't they care that he's locked up? Do they get to visit him, lobby for his release into normal life?
-Is their fear that he will just sneak right back in to the US again?

Why is he being sent to prison???

True. I guess I was thinking more in terms of somewhere that would give him asylum, since he was afraid of returning to El Salvador in 2019.

Im pretty sure the agreement was to keep them in the prison for a year. Will go back and see if I can find the quote again.

 

[Tricia]

As far as the accusations that Abrego Garcia "beat his wife" here is a statement from his wife about what happened.

Exclusive: Abrego Garcia's wife responds after restraining order revealed

The restraining order was filed by Jennifer Vasquez Sura in a Maryland court in 2021, according to documents released by DHS.

www.newsweek.com

After surviving domestic violence in a previous relationship, I acted out of caution following a disagreement with Kilmar by seeking a civil protective order, in case things escalated. Things did not escalate, and I decided not to follow through with the civil court process. We were able to work through the situation privately as a family, including by going to counseling,” Jennifer Vasquez Sura said in a statement to multiple outlets on Wednesday.
"Our marriage only grew stronger in the years that followed. No one is perfect, and no marriage is perfect. But that is not a justification for ICE's action of abducting him and deporting him to a country where he was supposed to be protected from removal. Kilmar has always been a loving partner and father, and I will continue to stand by him and demand justice for him," the statement adds.

Let's please stick to the facts. To say he beat his wife is not true according to his wife.

 

[statt#1]

DOJ releases new documents on Kilmar Abrego Garcia amid fight to bring him back to US

The White House on Wednesday slammed a Maryland senator for traveling to El Salvador to visit a man mistakenly deported.

www.fox5dc.com

Wife of deported Maryland man Abrego Garcia said he hit, scratched her in 2021 court documents

The wife of wrongfully deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia had a temporary order of protection against him in 2021 in which she cited domestic violence, court documents show.

abcnews.go.com

https://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/casesearch/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0502SP019272021&loc=20&detailLoc=DV

 

[Elley Mae]

Let's not forget the forest for one tree.
This is about due process for all.

First and Foremost.

 

[Charlot123]

I, personally, have no problem whatsoever with criminals being deported. I just want due process so that innocent people don't get caught up in this. I want full transparency. If we want to catch and deport bad guys, then we have to do it the way good guys would. It's the foundation of our Constitution.

MOO.

I'd rather they start with highest levels of criminals when they deport, if they really want to exterminate organized crime, but one can only hope.

 

[Cedars]

True. I guess I was thinking more in terms of somewhere that would give him asylum, since he was afraid of returning to El Salvador in 2019.

Many countries (such as the US/Canada) have implemented agreements about 'first country of resettlement' to prevent refugee claimants being sent/trying to move from the safe country they landed in, to somewhere else.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

A still-grieving mom whose daughter was allegedly raped and murdered by an illegal immigrant ripped the judges who put the brakes on President Trump’s deportation flights — and their Democrat enablers who’d rather “harbor” criminals than protect victims.
(…)
“I think this is just a weak attempt by Democrats and liberals to just stir up chaos and fear — which is the only thing they really know how to do,” she said.

“It really saddens me that all these politicians choose to harbor people that have committed federal crime.”

She continued: “I don’t understand. The law should be black and white, either you break the law or you uphold the law. There’s no gray area.”

‘Angel mom’ whose daughter was allegedly raped and murdered by illegal immigrant tears into judges trying to stop Trump’s deportation flights

Patty Morin, whose daughter was savagely raped and murdered by an illegal immigrant ripped “overreaching” judges who put the brakes on President Trump’s deportation flights.

nypost.com

This case raises a huge question. According to laws, DNA should be collected at border crossings and tied to the name. They had this very criminal's DNA tied to two crimes in two states. But no name. The question is, where the true problem lied: at the border checkpoints where DNA was uncollected, or at the level of the government that didn't sent enough DNA tests to the border? It is a serious situation. Ultimately, a rapist and a killer was allowed to roam a country for one more year.

 

[Charlot123]

A Chinese doctoral student lost his student visa for no reason.



This situation reflects the sentiment of "I don't agree with it, but I understand it." Essentially, the United States has the right to determine who can reside in the country. While I disagree with deporting individuals with casual indifference, I can understand the principle behind this decision.

If enough cases occur, IMO, the US will edge close to ethnic cleansing.

Well, again, if he was arrested for a DUI in 2023 (not the smartest thing - take Uber home when you are drunk!), he has to wait for the court to decide on his case. The problem is, DUI cases can last for years.

 

[Cedars]

I'd rather they start with highest levels of criminals when they deport, if they really want to exterminate organized crime, but one can only hope.

Just to clarify, many people, around the world, are deported from every country. It's a separate issue from committing crimes while in a country, it strictly relates to not having the necessary government permission to be in the country.

Plenty of law-abiding Canadians, who are discovered to have stayed longer than their permitted 6 month visitor visa, have been - are, will be - deported back to Canada. And won't be able to go back into the US ever again. But they don't get sent to a Canadian prison, they just walk off the airplane.

The issue of what to do with people who have committed a crime in your country is a completely different issue.

There are lots of Canadians facing charges in the US...off the top of my head: a guy who shot a rapper in Miami, a guy who ran a major drug smuggling ring out of California. The US has arrested them and sent them to trial and sentencing in the jurisdiction where they committed the crimes.

After sentencing they'll go to US jail for a while, and at that point there might start to be considerations about whether to deport them back to Canada to serve their sentence in prison there.. I expect it depends on whether they have family back in Canada that really want to visit them, how violent they are, how likely to escape, etc..

 

[Charlot123]

Just to clarify, many people, around the world, are deported from every country. It's a separate issue from committing crimes while in a country, it strictly relates to not having the necessary government permission to be in the country.

Plenty of law-abiding Canadians, who are discovered to have stayed longer than their permitted 6 month visitor visa, have been - are, will be - deported back to Canada. And won't be able to go back into the US ever again. But they don't get sent to a Canadian prison, they just walk off the airplane.

The issue of what to do with people who have committed a crime in your country is a completely different issue.

There are lots of Canadians facing charges in the US...off the top of my head: a guy who shot a rapper in Miami, a guy who ran a major drug smuggling ring out of California. The US has arrested them and sent them to trial and sentencing in the jurisdiction where they committed the crimes.

After sentencing they'll go to US jail for a while, and at that point there might start to be considerations about whether to deport them back to Canada to serve their sentence in prison there.. I expect it depends on whether they have family back in Canada that really want to visit them, how violent they are, how likely to escape, etc..

Well, there are people who are not hard to figure out. They buy penthouses for their 20-year-olds. If they are killed during shootouts, and some situations are shocking, we don't even read their names in newspapers, although by law the coroner is supposed to announce them. For some people arrested, all charges are suddenly quickly removed. So high level criminals stand out, but they appear invincible.

Nor do gang snitches snitch on narcobarons. A guy like Garcia, who doesn't even have any charges here or in el Salvador and worked in construction? Sure, he was snitched out by someone. JMO, he either had no affiliation or was such a small fry that a snitch would feel safe pointing at him. But he is not the one creating true problems in the country. He wants to avoid gangs. He doesn't run them.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just to clarify, many people, around the world, are deported from every country. It's a separate issue from committing crimes while in a country, it strictly relates to not having the necessary government permission to be in the country.

Plenty of law-abiding Canadians, who are discovered to have stayed longer than their permitted 6 month visitor visa, have been - are, will be - deported back to Canada. And won't be able to go back into the US ever again. But they don't get sent to a Canadian prison, they just walk off the airplane.

The issue of what to do with people who have committed a crime in your country is a completely different issue.

There are lots of Canadians facing charges in the US...off the top of my head: a guy who shot a rapper in Miami, a guy who ran a major drug smuggling ring out of California. The US has arrested them and sent them to trial and sentencing in the jurisdiction where they committed the crimes.

After sentencing they'll go to US jail for a while, and at that point there might start to be considerations about whether to deport them back to Canada to serve their sentence in prison there.. I expect it depends on whether they have family back in Canada that really want to visit them, how violent they are, how likely to escape, etc..

Exactly!

You commit a crime in another country, that country's legal system tries you and you go to prison in that country. If you have committed a felony crime in that country, you are deported once you are released from prison. Unless your own govt can negotiate to bring you back sooner and have you complete your sentence in your own country.

We are warned about this constantly in Australia, from actual cases. The Bali Nine are a good example. Australia tried for years and years to help these Aussies. We failed to stop the executions by firing squad of two of them, the others we eventually got repatriated to Australia 19 years later.

There are many examples.

 

[Herat]

"A group of House Democrats warned Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Labor Secretary Lori Chavez-DeRemer in a letter Wednesday that President Donald Trump’s immigration policies could lead to health care worker shortages.

A 2024 report from LeadingAge, an organization representing nonprofit aging services providers, found that immigrants make up 31% of the home care workforce, 21% of the nursing assistant workforce, 21% of the residential care aide workforce and 30.3% of the nursing home housekeeping and maintenance workforce.

The letter has been signed by over 40 House Democrats ... also endorsed by several unions, including the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees and the Service Employees International Union."

House Democrats tell RFK Jr. Trump’s deportations could cause health care worker shortage

House Democrats warned in a new letter that President Donald Trump’s immigration policies could lead to direct care worker shortages.

www.usatoday.com

Oh, this is truly a looming disaster for nursing homes and elderly care homes.

These are the kinds of jobs that USAnians don't like to take.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

when abrego-garcia filed for asylum which was denied, the judge withheld deporting to el salvador based on abrego-garcia's request. in that request abrego-garcia said was afraid of the primary ms-13 rival gang, barrio 18.

the only reason he feared barrio-18 would harm him is because he, abrego-garcia, is a member of ms-13.

where's proof of his having a family business in el salvador which is being threatened.... it doesn't exist.

jmo

Sorry, but that's bull made up by the administration. There is no evidence that's been presented anywhere that he was a member of MS-13. There's clothing some mysterious informant. That isn't evidence of anything.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

But he's a citizen of El Salvador. The US can't just foist him on some other country, no one wants him.

The whole landscape of gangs in El Salvador has changed, anyway. Whatever was true back when he was smuggled in, is no longer true.

I think the big issue being ignored here is:
what's going on with this administration's agreement with El Salvador?

-What are the terms of the contract to accept deportations?
-How much is the US paying the government of El Salvador, per prisoner?
-How long do they expect that government keep their own citizens, who have been deported from the US, locked up?
-What about this guy's family in El Salvador?? Don't they care that he's locked up? Do they get to visit him, lobby for his release into normal life?
-Is it fear that he will just sneak right back in to the US again?

Why is he being sent to prison???

That isn't being ignored. Many of us have mentioned this. Why are these people being sent to prison? The majority have no criminal convictions, either here or in their home countries, so why are we putting them in foreign prisons? We ask and it's crickets.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I would just comment though, "expedited due process" might be a compromise that both sides could live with.

It sounds to me like 'due process' means a judge who doesn't want to make a decision either way, gives the person some vague 'not a path to citizenship but not deportation either', and then the person's situation is allowed to continue for years just skating the border between legal and illegal...

JMO

I believe the administration was trying to use expedited due process by giving them 24 hours notice while they were locked up.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Oh, this is truly a looming disaster for nursing homes and elderly care homes.

These are the kinds of jobs that USAnians don't like to take.

They don't also like to take jobs picking produce, processing poultry, or working physical labor in construction. Just to name another few.

It's a looming disaster for many occupations that will be wiped out, along with those upstream and downstream.

Federal workers get fired. All their support industries suffer. They will be eating out less, so the restaurant owner and their employees will suffer. Some of those employees might lose their jobs. So they pull their kids out of daycare. Then the daycare suffers. Some of those employees might lose their jobs.

And on and on.

This is what "trickle down economics" means in the real world. Poop runs downhill and eventually all of us who are not immune by wealth will suffer.

 

[Cedars]

Oh, this is truly a looming disaster for nursing homes and elderly care homes.

These are the kinds of jobs that USAnians don't like to take.

It's the same in Canada, many Filipinos have immigrated here to take these jobs, and are favored because they speak and read English. Unless they mess up, they are all on a clear path to permanent residency within a few years, so no government can round them up and deport them on a whim.

JMO