People being detained and "exported" by ICE

Status
Not open for further replies.
From Mehdi Hasan’s article:

In the eyes of this administration, immigrants who are undocumented are all “illegal immigrants” and these “illegal immigrants”, ergo, are all “criminals”.

But, on so many levels, it’s just not true. It’s a popular myth pushed by the right that needs urgent debunking.

First, people are not, are never, illegal. It was the Nobel laureate and former Auschwitz prisoner Elie Wiesel who pointed out how “no human being is ‘illegal’” because it is “a contradiction in terms. People can be beautiful or less beautiful, they can be just or unjust, but illegal? How can a human being be illegal?”

An act can be illegal; people cannot inherently be illegal.

Second, the anti-immigrant right has not only gotten the language wrong but the law wrong, too. Under the US criminal code, as the ACLU has noted: “The act of being present in the United States in violation of the immigration laws is not, standing alone, a crime.” Why? Because illegal entry is considered a misdemeanor not a felony, under 8 US Code § 1325, and is subject to civil, and not criminal, penalties. It is the “reentry of removed aliens”, under 8 US Code § 1326, that is considered a felony and subject to criminal punishment.

Meanwhile, almost half of undocumented immigrants in the United States did not even enter the country illegally to begin with; many of them are “overstays” who arrived with a legal work, student, or travel visa but failed to leave the US, for a multiplicity of reasons, before their visas expired.

The inconvenient truth for the anti-immigrant right is that it is not a crime for immigrants simply to be present in the United States without proper documentation. They are not “illegals”. Don’t take my word for it. Or the ACLU’s. Take the word – the 5-3 majority ruling! – of the supreme court of the United States. In 2012, in Arizona v United States, the highest court in the land ruled that “as a general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain in the United States”.

Got that? Not. A. Crime.

Yes, 'crime' is a loaded term, that shouldn't be used, except for violations of the criminal code. Immigration is not covered under the criminal code.

However, statutes exist stating the immigration rules of a country. These are also called 'laws', but they have nothing to do with crime.

Similarly, for example, there are statutes concerning employment, known as 'employment law', which employers/employees are expected to follow, concerning hiring, labour conditions, etc. However, 'violations' aren't investigated by police, they aren't considered 'crimes'. There is some other organization that oversees complaints, etc.

IMO, it is in a country's best interest not to have widespread, common, disregard for all of the country's statutes.

Either the statutes need to be changed, or there needs to be some kind of reminder of what the statutes state.

JMO
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Wow! Since when has beating your spouse been acceptable. I think it may have some bearing on whether or not he is allowed to stay in the country, if he’s ever returned. imo
Not sure if they lived in Maryland, or what state they lived in at the time, but of note is that it appears no criminal charges of domestic battery were laid by LE. As the wife explained, her fear was based on a prior relationship and she sought "a civil protective order, in case things escalated". Things did not escalate.

As Tricia instructed earlier, "Let's please stick to the facts. To say he beat his wife is not true according to his wife."
 
My point isn’t meaningless. If he is sent back to the US, the spousal abuse will be relevant in determining if he is allowed to remain here. imo

Others may choose to ignore the wife’s claims because it suits their narrative but I don’t think anyone here is okay with abuse.
He doesn't have to be "sent" anywhere. He needs to be released from the barbaric El Salvador prison. Once released, he should be free to return to his home. If that is not possible, he should fly to Canada and declare refugees status as a person of political persecution in the USA.
 
Wow! Since when has beating your spouse been acceptable. I think it may have some bearing on whether or not he is allowed to stay in the country, if he’s ever returned. imo
It’s a complete fallacy to say that someone deserving due process equates to justifying spousal abuse.

If we all have due process, that means that sometimes, someone why is guilty of a crime will receive due process - and likely still be found guilty of the crimes they commit.

If we don’t all have due process, innocents will be caught in the crossfire - or worse, intentionally targeted. Pick your poison.

MOO
 

“Paredes claimed to ABC News he and others were "forced to sign a paper" saying they are part of a gang. On Friday, the ACLU submitted a document they say their clients at Bluebonnet received from immigration officials. The document, titled "Notice and Warrant of Apprehension and Removal under the Alien Enemies Act," says, "You have been determined to be... a member of Tren de Aragua.

"We have been forced to sign a paper, right here, basically saying that we are part of a gang, that we are part of it, and they're forcing us to sign it," Paredes said.”

As someone whose mother’s entire side of the family survived Nazi POW camps, this is chilling. I grew up hearing stories about what happens when governments start demanding false confessions and how prisoners were beaten, starved, or manipulated into signing statements used to justify their own punishment. It’s a tactic with a long, dark history. Coerced confessions are used by authoritarian regimes to turn victims into “criminals” on paper - just enough to make the public look away.

This isn’t just about migrants. It’s about what kind of government we’re allowing to take shape. If ICE can get away with this in the shadows, how long until these tactics surface elsewhere? MOO
 
Last edited:
Class action lawsuits possible, according to a federal judge .....

The order also grants class-action status to non-US citizens facing removal orders and may be sent to a country not designated in their initial immigration proceedings.

The order cites hundreds of potential class members.

The court explained, “What Plaintiffs challenge is Defendants’ authority to effectively depart from the removal orders by designating new countries for removal outside of the immigration proceedings and, in doing so, circumvent Plaintiffs’ due-process rights…”



Better get DOGE right on that. Who knew the biggest contributor of wasteful spending was Trump?

MOO.
 

“Paredes claimed to ABC News he and others were "forced to sign a paper" saying they are part of a gang. On Friday, the ACLU submitted a document they say their clients at Bluebonnet received from immigration officials. The document, titled "Notice and Warrant of Apprehension and Removal under the Alien Enemies Act," says, "You have been determined to be... a member of Tren de Aragua.

"We have been forced to sign a paper, right here, basically saying that we are part of a gang, that we are part of it, and they're forcing us to sign it," Paredes said.”

As someone whose mother’s entire side of the family survived Nazi POW camps, this is chilling. I grew up hearing stories about what happens when governments start demanding false confessions and how prisoners were beaten, starved, or manipulated into signing statements used to justify their own punishment. It’s a tactic with a long, dark history. Coerced confessions are used by authoritarian regimes to turn victims into “criminals” on paper - just enough to make the public look away.

This isn’t just about migrants. It’s about what kind of government we’re allowing to take shape. If ICE can get away with this in the shadows, how long until these tactics surface elsewhere? MOO
I am beginning to not recognize this country as the America I grew up in- we are in deep trouble and it is just the beginning. We are not being governed: we are being ruled by a wannabe king.
 
I am beginning to not recognize this country as the America I grew up in- we are in deep trouble and it is just the beginning. We are not being governed: we are being ruled by a wannabe king.
I feel the same. The way immigration laws are being applied now is unrecognizable compared to even 20 years ago. We’ve gone from processing asylum seekers to detaining them indefinitely, deporting without hearings, and now, possibly coercing false confessions to justify removals. It’s not just stricter enforcement, it’s a cruel shift in how power is being used. And once that kind of authority is normalized, it won’t stop with migrants. Every tactic that is being used against migrants will be used against born citizens if we continue to allow our first amendment rights to erode. MOO.
 
The point your trying to argue is meaningless here. If he's an immigrant in this country illegally, then he still is owed due process. Just because dear leader says he has tattoos doesn't mean he gets kicked out without any chance to defend himself. The Supreme Court has voted 9-0 regarding this issue. Is your assertion then that the Supreme Court should be ignored? That's kind of funny for someone who is so law & order. JMO
BBM

“Dear Lying Leader” even showed a faked photo of Mr Abrego Garcia’s hand with “MS13” photoshopped onto his fingers.

“This is the hand of the man that the Democrats feel should be brought back to the United States, because he is such ‘a fine and innocent person.’ They said he is not a member of MS-13, even though he’s got MS-13 tattooed onto his knuckles and two Highly Respected Courts found that he was a member of MS-13, beat up his wife, etc.,” the president posted on Truth Social on Friday evening.

Of course MAGAs are saying the Trump photo was just showing that his tattoos “mean” MS13. But that isn’t what Trump said.


In any case, MS13 or not, Mr Abrego García deserves due process as do the rest of the group sent to El Salvador.

JMO

Edited to add Trump quote and link to the Independent.
 
Last edited:
BBM

“Dear Lying Leader” even showed a faked photo of Mr Abrego Garcia’s hand with “MS13” photoshopped onto his fingers. Of course MAGAs are saying the Trump photo was just showing that his tattoos “mean” MS13. But that isn’t what Trump said.


In any case, MS13 or not, Mr Abrego García deserves due process as do the rest of the group sent to El Salvador.

JMO

No MS-13 visible on this image, so would say it's photoshopped

Moo
 
I am beginning to not recognize this country as the America I grew up in- we are in deep trouble and it is just the beginning. We are not being governed: we are being ruled by a wannabe king.

It’s not the same country we grew up in at all since January 20. Trump has made it clear that he wants to be a dictator or king and he meant it. This is why I post the “Trump Tyranny Tracker” and have “Tyranny Tracker” as my signature. It’s deeply distressing, to put it mildly.

 
Just like the manufactured DOJ "people trafficking" thing. Made up.

How many times have you given a co-worker a ride? I used to have to travel all over PA and one of the company owner's was a pilot and had a plane. He sometimes flew myself and a co-worker. So I guess he was trafficking us, right? Another job, I used to give a guy who worked down the street from me a ride because he was my neighbor and couldn't drive. Guess I'm a trafficker, too.

Let's not forget the Chicago Bulls hat, which was also determined to be gang related. Or the guy who had an autism awareness tattoo. Also deemed gang-related. And the gay stylist/hairdresser who had tattoos commemorating a celebration in his birthplace and honoring his parents.

So, anybody who is brown and has a tattoo is fair game?

"All men are created equal" except when they aren't. "Due process" except when we don't feel like it.

Ridiculous to try to defend this.

MOO
 
"Four House Democratic lawmakers who traveled to El Salvador to push for the release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia were denied an opportunity to see the mistakenly deported man, Florida Rep. Maxwell Frost said Monday.

“We formally requested to see him today,” but were told “the government here has denied our request to see him,” Florida Rep. Maxwell Frost said during a news conference in San Salvador.

Ansari told reporters the group has written a letter to Secretary of State Marco Rubio demanding daily proof of life, access to counsel and Abrego Garcia’s “safe return home.” "

 
My point isn’t meaningless. If he is sent back to the US, the spousal abuse will be relevant in determining if he is allowed to remain here. imo

Others may choose to ignore the wife’s claims because it suits their narrative but I don’t think anyone here is okay with abuse.

If we're going to deport spousal abusers, can we please start with the one in the Oval Office?

MOO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
166
Guests online
674
Total visitors
840

Forum statistics

Threads
625,662
Messages
18,507,837
Members
240,832
Latest member
bibthebab
Back
Top