People being detained and "exported" by ICE

[PrairieWind]

How are these students illegal exactly? They have not been charged with any crime.

I thought the US was all about free speech, it appears that it’s only free speech if you fall into line with the current governments doctrines.

1984 thoughtspeech and thoughtcrime writ loud

There is free speech in the US, unlike many countries, like Canada, etc. But, if you are here on a visa, you must abide by those terms. A lot of latitude was given in the past that isn't being allowed anymore. I travel abroad frequently and I abide by their rules.

 

[SouthAussie]

There is free speech in the US, unlike many countries, like Canada, etc. But, if you are here on a visa, you must abide by those terms. A lot of latitude was given in the past that isn't being allowed anymore. I travel abroad frequently and I abide by their rules.

Is there a link that says there is no free speech in Canada? I think that your post is erroneous.


The Canadian Charter or Rights and Freedoms is the equivalent to our Bill of Rights. Both guarantee the right to freedom of speech and the press, peaceably assemble, travel, due process, privacy, an attorney and speedy trial in criminal cases, and trial by jury in certain cases.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS98/rpt%5Colr%5Chtm/98-R-0143.htm#:~:text=The%20Canadian%20Charter%20or%20Rights,by%20jury%20in%20certain%20cases.

 

[PrairieWind]

So let's be clear..

Not one single Venezualan person illegally sent to El Salvador is in fact a TDA Member.

I'll leave that sink in.

Not.one.of.them.
There is not a word for this administration, that sum up my disgust for them satisfactorily.
Moo

You are willing to accept hook, line and sinker, the word of the Venezuelan official, who has a vested interest in lying?

Lets let THAT sink in.

 

[Summerliz03]

just some snippets from the link report about abrego-garcia and his 'boss' and human trafficking. not so innocent, imo.

TRUTH of Kilmar Abrego Garcia... now linked to a human trafficker

Staring nervously into a Tennessee police trooper's body camera in 2022, Abrego Garcia tried to explain why he had eight other people crammed into his SUV and was driving with a suspended license.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Staring nervously into a Tennessee police trooper's body camera in 2022, Abrego Garcia tried to explain exactly why he had eight other people crammed into his SUV.

He said he had been driving construction workers between jobs for the last three days, starting in Houston, Texas with their final destination being Temple Hills, Maryland, 1,400 miles away.

But the Tennessee highway patrol officer became suspicious when Abrego Garcia allegedly tried to put him 'off track' by responding to questions with questions and pretending he couldn't speak English very well.

According to a police report, there was no luggage in the black Chevrolet Suburban and all of the men gave Abrego Garcia's home address as their address as well.

Abrego Garcia was driving with an expired temporary license and he told the state trooper that the SUV belonged to his boss, Jose Ramon Hernandez Reyes.

So concerned was the trooper that he suspected Abrego Garcia involved in human trafficking and arrested the nine men.

But – due to guidance form the Biden administration's FBI –Abrego Garcia was released with a warning for driving without a valid license.


Now, court and Homeland Security Department intelligence documents seen by Just The News are reportedly revealing more about that stop and Abrego Garcia's 'boss' - a fellow Salvadoran illegal immigrant and convicted human smuggler.

On December 2, 2019, a special agent of the Department of Homeland Security stopped a suspicious white Dodge Caravan minivan with New Mexico plates on a stretch of interstate I-10 in Gautier, Mississippi.

Inside the agent found nine illegal migrant men.

In the passenger seat was sat Jose Ramon Hernandez Reyes – the man that Abergo Garcia reportedly named as his 'boss.'

In August 2020, Hernandez Reyes plead guilty to four counts of 'aiding and abetting the illegal transportation of an alien within the United States' and sentenced to 18 months in federal prison.

He said he had been living in Maryland, where Abrego Garcia lives, before moving to Houston, Texas, a city Abrego Garcia had reportedly said he was thinking about relocating to.


and, another link about the boss man's case

Illegal Alien Sentenced Regarding Smuggling of Illegal Aliens

Gulfport, Miss. – Jose Ramon Hernandez-Reyes, 33, an illegal alien from Mexico, was sentenced yesterday to 18 months imprisonment, followed by 3 years of supervised release, for illegal transportation or moving of an alien.

www.justice.gov

jmo

How does any of this justify him not receiving due process?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't know why this simple concept seems so difficult to grasp.

It doesn't matter if he was pulled over driving a van full of dead bodies. He was still entitled to due process.

Even Riley Lakin's killer--who was here illegally, unlike Abrego Garcia--had a trial as he was due under the Constitution. And sentenced to prison here, by the way, not deported to a foreign gulag.

Edited to add for clarification: I meant there was an order not to depart Abrego Garcia, not that he was here legally.

 

[Lyanna]

You are willing to accept hook, line and sinker, the word of the Venezuelan official, who has a vested interest in lying?

Lets let THAT sink in.

More willing to believe the Venezuelan official over Trump and his administration?

Absolutely

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Is there a link that says there is no free speech in Canada?

Maybe there's no free hate speech in Canada ?

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe there's no free hate speech in Canada ?

Yes, like here in Australia.

 

[PrairieWind]

Is there a link that says there is no free speech in Canada? I think that your post is erroneous.


The Canadian Charter or Rights and Freedoms is the equivalent to our Bill of Rights. Both guarantee the right to freedom of speech and the press, peaceably assemble, travel, due process, privacy, an attorney and speedy trial in criminal cases, and trial by jury in certain cases.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS98/rpt%5Colr%5Chtm/98-R-0143.htm#:~:text=The%20Canadian%20Charter%20or%20Rights,by%20jury%20in%20certain%20cases.

There is no guaranty like the 1st Amendment in the US. Canada has the charter of rights and freedoms but it itself gives the government the authority to limit that right. and who gets to decide that? The government. That is not freedom of speech. True freedom is protect the speech that is NOT popular.

 

[SouthAussie]

True freedom is protect the speech that is NOT popular.

Which is one of the reasons why the US is in such a divided mess. HATE speech is allowed. It is very ugly, offensive, and causes big problems. Pitting US citizens against each other.

imo

 

[Lilibet]

just some snippets from the link report about abrego-garcia and his 'boss' and human trafficking. not so innocent, imo.

TRUTH of Kilmar Abrego Garcia... now linked to a human trafficker

Staring nervously into a Tennessee police trooper's body camera in 2022, Abrego Garcia tried to explain why he had eight other people crammed into his SUV and was driving with a suspended license.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Staring nervously into a Tennessee police trooper's body camera in 2022, Abrego Garcia tried to explain exactly why he had eight other people crammed into his SUV.

He said he had been driving construction workers between jobs for the last three days, starting in Houston, Texas with their final destination being Temple Hills, Maryland, 1,400 miles away.

But the Tennessee highway patrol officer became suspicious when Abrego Garcia allegedly tried to put him 'off track' by responding to questions with questions and pretending he couldn't speak English very well.

According to a police report, there was no luggage in the black Chevrolet Suburban and all of the men gave Abrego Garcia's home address as their address as well.

Abrego Garcia was driving with an expired temporary license and he told the state trooper that the SUV belonged to his boss, Jose Ramon Hernandez Reyes.

So concerned was the trooper that he suspected Abrego Garcia involved in human trafficking and arrested the nine men.

But – due to guidance form the Biden administration's FBI –Abrego Garcia was released with a warning for driving without a valid license.


Now, court and Homeland Security Department intelligence documents seen by Just The News are reportedly revealing more about that stop and Abrego Garcia's 'boss' - a fellow Salvadoran illegal immigrant and convicted human smuggler.

On December 2, 2019, a special agent of the Department of Homeland Security stopped a suspicious white Dodge Caravan minivan with New Mexico plates on a stretch of interstate I-10 in Gautier, Mississippi.

Inside the agent found nine illegal migrant men.

In the passenger seat was sat Jose Ramon Hernandez Reyes – the man that Abergo Garcia reportedly named as his 'boss.'

In August 2020, Hernandez Reyes plead guilty to four counts of 'aiding and abetting the illegal transportation of an alien within the United States' and sentenced to 18 months in federal prison.

He said he had been living in Maryland, where Abrego Garcia lives, before moving to Houston, Texas, a city Abrego Garcia had reportedly said he was thinking about relocating to.


and, another link about the boss man's case

Illegal Alien Sentenced Regarding Smuggling of Illegal Aliens

Gulfport, Miss. – Jose Ramon Hernandez-Reyes, 33, an illegal alien from Mexico, was sentenced yesterday to 18 months imprisonment, followed by 3 years of supervised release, for illegal transportation or moving of an alien.

www.justice.gov

jmo

Again, your point? This has absolutely nothing to do with what has happened to Mr Abrego García. The government is releasing this information to try to justify sending him to El Salvador. We are talking about due process here.

 

[otto]

During Nazi rule, the government took control of universities and removed Administration/faculty that did not agree with Nazi ideology. Protesters were arrested (and executed), and no one did much of anything.

Trump is dictating what universities can allow as areas of inquiry, withholding research funding, threatening to replace university leadership, and he has already been rounding up student protesters whom he wants to send to brutal foreign prisoners (where the possibility of death is high).

Trump is right on track with his imitation of Hitler, and the USA is right on track with not doing enough.

"German universities, like many institutions in Nazi Germany, never took any notable action to oppose the regime. In fact, students and faculty proved to be a significant source of support for Nazism. Although students often opposed everyday expectations forced on them by Nazi policies, this rarely led to acts of organized resistance. The featured source illustrates one significant exception to this trend—the student-led White Rose Movement at Munich University.
...

On February 18, 1943, [university students ] Hans and Sophie Scholl were caught distributing the sixth pamphlet in the main lecture hall of Munich University. Investigations led the Gestapo to other members of the movement. Probst and the Scholls were tried in a hasty show trial before the so-called People's Court on February 22. They were executed on the same day. Graf, Huber, and Schmorell were tried and executed in the subsequent months."​

https://perspectives.ushmm.org/collection/higher-education-in-nazi-germany

"After Adolf Hitler was appointed German Chancellor in January 1933, the new Nazi government began an effort to completely reorder public and private life in Germany. The Nazi regime quickly targeted German universities—among the most elite in the world at the time—for restructuring according to Nazi principles. While the Nazi Ministry of Education initiated reforms, local Nazi organizations and student activists worked to bring Nazi ideals to German campuses. These forces, along with increasing antisemitism under Nazi rule, transformed everyday life at German universities. Throughout this period, students, faculty, and staff made individual decisions that both upheld and opposed Nazi ideology.

With the passage of the "Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service" in 1933, most Jewish professors in Germany were dismissed from their positions. Others, such as Professor Eugen Mittwoch, were able to keep their posts temporarily only due to the political value of their research. After purging Jewish and "politically undesirable" faculty, the regime then targeted the student body with the "Law Against Overcrowding in Schools and Universities." As German authorities continued to "Aryanize" German universities, Jews increasingly lost the opportunity to teach or study. Many non-Jewish Germans sought to benefit from their persecution."​

https://perspectives.ushmm.org/item/pamphlet-distributed-by-the-white-rose-movement/collection/higher-education-in-nazi-germany

 

[otto]

There is free speech in the US, unlike many countries, like Canada, etc. But, if you are here on a visa, you must abide by those terms. A lot of latitude was given in the past that isn't being allowed anymore. I travel abroad frequently and I abide by their rules.

Canada has "freedom of expression". This means that Canadians can say whatever they want as long as they respect the autonomy of others.

The USA has "freedom of speech". This means that people in the USA can say whatever they want regardless of consequence to others.

For example, in Canada, teachers cannot say that the Holocaust did not happen. In the USA, teachers can say this. Willful promotion of hatred is not allowed in Canada. The USA doesn't mind.

Freedom of speech in the USA has been redefined by Trump. Students who protested against Israel's retaliation against Gaza (for the barbaric slaughter of farming communities) are being arrested. Freedom of speech has new boundaries in the USA. People can say what they want as long as they don't discuss scientific research with the global community, and don't protest anything that doesn't agree with Trump's agenda.

It looks like Trump thinks that by protecting Jewish people during his transition to authoritarianism, no one will notice what he's doing. That is, no one can accuse him of mimicking Hitler as long as he doesn't persecute Jewish people ... a simple minded logic.

 

[jbirner]

It is sickening seeing President Trump being compared to Hitler or what is going on in our country being compared to Nazi Germany. I suggest you visit a holocaust museum and educate yourself on what happened in Germany under Hitler. Unless you are Jewish, like i am, you have no idea what we are going through and how we feel like the world is against us. At least someone is protecting us.

 

[Lilibet]

It is sickening seeing President Trump being compared to Hitler or what is going on in our country being compared to Nazi Germany. I suggest you visit a holocaust museum and educate yourself on what happened in Germany under Hitler. Unless you are Jewish, like i am, you have no idea what we are going through and how we feel like the world is against us. At least someone is protecting us.

I spent hours at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and I am well educated about what happened in Europe under Hitler. I am truly heartsick about what happened to Jews in Europe and for the anti-Semitism you are experiencing now. I’m sure it’s frightening.

Under Hitler, in addition to Jews, his political enemies, Roma (Gypsies), and Jehovah’s Witnesses among others were also persecuted and sent to concentration camps. They are represented in displays at the Holocaust Museum. At the moment under Trump, we are seeing immigrants who are here legally and illegally, targeted and imprisoned. We are seeing Trump’s enemies “investigated.” We are seeing universities targeted. That’s how autocracy starts. We are not at the level of 1930s Germany or Hitler, to be sure, but the possibility exists. Those who understand history pay close attention, which is what we are doing on this thread.

Not all Jews feel as you do. Some feel used by Trump.

Some Jewish Americans wrestle with Trump's sweeping crusade against antisemitism

The Trump administration has cited antisemitism as a key reason it has targeted universities and activists. While some Jewish groups have cheered these moves, others have fiercely criticized them.

www.nbcnews.com

Quoting a rabbi…
“What may feel, today, like a welcomed embrace is actually putting us at even greater danger,” Brous said, according to a copy of her sermon published on IKAR’s website. “We, the Jews, are being used to advance a political agenda that will cause grave harm to the social fabric, and to the institutions that are best suited to protect Jews and all minorities.”

“We are being used. Our pain, our trauma, is being exploited to eviscerate the dream of a multiracial democracy, while advancing the goal of a white Christian nation,” Brous added.

Again, I am sorry about your quite legitimate fear and wish you peace and safety.

 

[LunaInvidia]

Trump is also following the Fuhrer's playbook of going after the trans and queer communities, many of whom were not allotted the same rescue and freedoms after the war ended.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It’s apparent that no matter what is posted if it’s not for allowing all undocumented ppl in the usa then it’s frowned on.

I would like to see at least 10 million ( half) if not all 20 million of what the previous administration allowed to enter. If allowed to stay not on any benefits that Americans paid into.

Jmo

I disagree with your premise. I have said more than once that this isn't about objecting to removing illegal immigrants. It's about giving them due process BEFORE they're removed. It's a basic tenant of American law. I don't understand how people can call themselves proud American and then advocate for the most anti-American policy in my generation. Without due process, how do you know they're illegal? How do you know they should be removed? That is literally the only purpose of due process -- to protect against error. To advocate against due process is to advocate FOR errors. It's unconscionable.

As an aside, I also disagree with policy that allows for revoking Visas on a whim. That is also against the due process clause in the Constitution. What's happening right now is an administration trampling all over the Constitution, including the 1st Amendment. It's an incredibly dangerous precedent and shame on all his enablers for not speaking out against it.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Ends Taxpayer Subsidization of Open Borders

PRESERVING FEDERAL BENEFITS FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS: Today, President Donald J. Trump signed an Executive Order to ensure taxpayer resources are not used to

www.whitehouse.gov

I'm confused on what point you're making? Taxpayers shouldn't pay for illegal immigration? I agree. But can I please have back the 6 million a year we're paying El Salvador to help us kidnap and traffic innocent people? How about the millions we're paying on the illegal deportation flights to El Salv or the flights to shuffle people all over the country in hopes their attorneys can't find them?

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I would not be surprised if it was intentional.

Oh it absolutely was intentional. This administration is incompetent, but they're also cruel AF.

MOO.

 

[fred&edna]

Again, your point? This has absolutely nothing to do with what has happened to Mr Abrego García. The government is releasing this information to try to justify sending him to El Salvador. We are talking about due process here.

again. my point, abrego-garcia received due process... in two courts... he was ruled a gang member and ordered to be deported from the us a long time ago. despite that order a-g continued living in the us working for and 'obviously' aiding who we now know was a human-trafficker. abrego-garcia was not a poor innocent, hard-working, law-abiding, loving maryland daddy.

it makes no sense that abrego-garcia needs more due process.

jmo