People being detained and "exported" by ICE

[GatorFL]

They were international students, with student visas until the government decided to use them to suit its anti immigrant agenda. Seems people don’t think about the benefits those students provide to the US economy - via the course fees they pay, the accomodation they pay for, the money they spend in the community and if they are allowed to work the taxes they pay.
kicking them out during their studies when they haven’t committed a criminal offence is ridiculous, are you suggesting it would be acceptable if it was done to you?

They had student visas, yes. Actions have consequences, their actions resulted in their visas being revoked.

 

[Simply Southern]

So then why did the Supreme Court vote 9-0? Why is it okay to ignore Supreme Court rulings? What if we just ignore them overturning Roe v Wade? That's allowable, right?

The Supreme Court placed a pause on the deportation. The media has chosen the word block. They have set a future date for their disposition.

The Supreme Court also ruled, the US it's to facilitate a return. The DOJ has offered to provide a plane for his return. The president of El Salvador refuses to release. The appellate judge that was asking for daily update, issued a pause on Friday. Attorneys for both sides presented information under seal and she set a future date for her decision. That leads me to believe, the DOJ has submitted information that may clearly prove his cartel connection.

Moo...

 

[SouthAussie]

They had student visas, yes. Actions have consequences, their actions resulted in their visas being revoked.

Did their actions "have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States"?

As if some protestors could seriously adversely affect their foreign policies.

When it gets to court the US Govt is going to have to prove how their foreign policies are seriously adversely affected.

imo

 

[GatorFL]

Did their actions "have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States"?

As if some protestors could seriously adversely affect their foreign policies.

imo

Yes.

I believe over 300 visas have been revoked for similar reasons.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes.

I believe over 300 visas have been revoked for similar reasons.

Perhaps you can explain how the US foreign policies are seriously adversely affected. I am not seeing it.

 

[GatorFL]

Being in the country illegally is a civil offense, not a criminal one.

Yes, and the punishment for that offense is being deported.

 

[SouthAussie]

The appellate judge that was asking for daily update, issued a pause on Friday. Attorneys for both sides presented information under seal and she set a future date for her decision. That leads me to believe, the DOJ has submitted information that may clearly prove his cartel connection.

Moo...

Either way, a court had ruled he could not be deported to El Salvador. And that is exactly where they sent him. And to a prison there, no less.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't know nor care what either of them said. To me, if you don't have a visa, you're here illegally and need to go.

How and when are these individuals advised their visas have been revoked?

 

[Simply Southern]

One of the darkest times in the nation's history and you want to use it now as a benchmark to defend what's going on? Make it make sense.

I'm stating history, how the ACT has been used previously. I can't find any examples in history, where a hearing or trial was afforded or even a crime has to be committed and I've diligently searched. I'm looking for answers, as well.

Yes, dark days, I agree. It was horrendous, many Japanese died under horrible conditions. Even after the injustice and a financial settlement (under Regan) approved by Congress they did not revised, amended or apealed the Act.


Moo...

 

[dspdenver]

When it gets to court the US Govt is going to have to prove how their foreign policies are seriously adversely affected.

With the Terrible Twos baby in the White House, practically anything can seriously adversely affect this government's policies.

 

[GatorFL]

How and when are these individuals advised their visas have been revoked?

Many illegals overstay their visas and are not advised of their status. Upthread I mentioned somebody I know who was in Krome for 10 months for this. He got it fixed, just in time.

 

[Simply Southern]

It does need to be proven in a court of law.

And it only applies to foreign gang members. Not to people with any tattoo, any baseball cap, any rumour against them, or to any hairdresser, any migrant, any person with golden skin or a Latino name.
And it doesn't say they can deport them to a mega prison in another country - like El Salvador - does it?

Honestly, I am not seeing anyone complain about foreign gang members being deported. It is all the unproven allegations and the innocents that are caught up in this big sweep. That is the big problem.


The Supreme Court ruled on 8 April that Trump could use the Alien Enemies Act to deport alleged gang members, but deportees must be given a chance to challenge their removal.

Alien Enemies Act: The 1798 law Trump used to deport migrants

The wartime Alien Enemies Act has been controversially used to deport Venezuelans to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

www.bbc.com

Moo.... So far he is the only one of those deported to El Salvador, that is challenging the deportation. The DOJ is stating he was given a deportation order with a restriction on El Salvador, previously. However, he was not deported and later applied for a green card and approved. Under the law, he should not have been given a green card, after a deportation order nor allowed to stay in the US.

I think we're going to find, he is the exception to the rule. If the other 200 or so were not given a hearing by an immigration judge, we would see massive lawsuits, families would be speaking out and congressional representative would be on every news station. moo

Currently the law suits pending are in local or appellate courts either in "pause"a and/or judges have issued temporary stays from being sent to an immigration facility. Once they reach the immigration facility, they will fall under the jurisdiction of an immigration judge.

Eta.. the lower court judge, that was asking for daily reports, granted a stay for the DOJ, on Friday. Attorneys for both sides, including the department of Justice submitted information under Court seal. A future date was set, giving her time to review the information. We should have a decision from the lower court within 30 days or less.

Moo...

 

[Lilibet]

he received due process in two different us courts - all info i have posted previously in this thread. abrego-garcia was ruled an ms13 gang member and ordered to be deported. i have no idea how much additional due process others here think a terrorist gang-member with deportation orders should be given.... especially when they ignore orders, stay here illegally with a wife reporting physical abuse more than once, and they continue to participate in illegal activity,

nothing affords him additional due process than he's already received.

jmo

Ummmmm…You clearly didn’t even bother reading or thinking about my reply to you yesterday. Why? I read your posts. You just keep repeating what Trump and company say. I would hope you are willing to consider facts. Let’s try this again….

Much more detail at the link. Well worth reading.

Due Process and the Abrego Garcia Case - FactCheck.org​

The Supreme Court ruled on the evening of April 10 that the Trump administration must comply with a lower court's order to "facilitate" the release from custody of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, an immigrant who was deported without a hearing to a mega prison in El Salvador. The case underscores...

www.factcheck.org

It’s true that Abrego Garcia received due process after being apprehended in 2019 — ultimately getting a judgment of withholding from removal — but he was not given due process before being removed from the country in March.

“The government could have presented its evidence before an immigration judge, the federal district court in Maryland, or in criminal proceedings as it has done in prosecuting cases of other alleged MS-13 members,” foreign affairs expert Tom Joscelyn and law professor Ryan Goodman recently explained in the online publication Just Security.
<snip>

Bondi overstated the findings from the bond hearing when she said in the Oval Office meeting, “In 2019, two courts — an immigration court and an appellate immigration court — ruled that he was a member of MS-13.” The courts didn’t “rule” on the issue; rather, they said that the report relied upon by DHS was inconsistent but “appears to be trustworthy” enough to deny bond.

A different immigration judge handled Abrego Garcia’s asylum claim. That judge didn’t rule on the issue of whether or not the government had proved Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13, but the judge reviewed all the evidence presented in the case and found that Abrego Garcia “provided credible responses to the questions asked” and that his testimony was “consistent with his asylum application and other documents.” The judge didn’t grant asylum because Abrego Garcia had filed his application seven years after entering the U.S., “well-beyond the one-year filing deadline.”

However, the judge did grant him “withholding of removal,” which is a form of relief for migrants who fear persecution, as explained by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Such a ruling prevents deportation to a person’s home country and allows that person the right to remain in the U.S. and work legally, but according to the American Immigration Council, “the government is still allowed to deport that person to a different country if the other country agrees to accept them.” It does not allow a path to permanent residence or citizenship in the U.S.

The judge found that Abrego Garcia had “suffered past persecution as he was threatened with death on more than one occasion” and that “the facts here show that the Barrio 18 gang continues to threaten and harass the Abrego family over these several years, and does so even though the family has moved three times.” The judge ruled that he could not be sent back to a country where he would be likely to suffer persecution.

The government did not appeal that ruling, and Abrego Garcia has been living and working in Maryland ever since.
BBM

 

[SouthAussie]

I think we're going to find, he is the exception to the rule. If the other 200 or so were not given a hearing by an immigration judge, we would see massive lawsuits, families would be speaking out and congressional representative would be on every news station. moo

Venezuela is speaking out. So are families and lawyers. I don't know why you aren't seeing the reports.


Venezuela's Interior Minister Diosdado Cabello said on Friday that none of the hundreds of Venezuelans deported by the U.S. to a Salvadoran prison is a member of Venezuela's Tren de Aragua criminal gang, the reason Washington gave for expelling them.

"I believe with absolute responsibility that not a single one appears on the organizational chart of the now-extinct Tren de Aragua organization, not a single one," Cabello said on a podcast, saying he had names of the deportees from U.S. media and his own source.

Meanwhile, families and lawyers have been seeking news about relatives and clients whom they could no longer reach, and demanding their return to Venezuela.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-minister-says-jailed-deportees-us-not-tied-tren-de-aragua-2025-03-21/

 

[branmuffin]

I’ve stayed out of this entire forum, but need to say that while I understand your partner is in fear and anguish, and I truly empathize, please don’t minimize what Hitler was about.

He wanted a world of perfect Aryans, yes, so he did kill the disabled, Roma etc.

That does not diminish that his main goal, the Final Solution, was in fact to exterminate all Jews from the earth. Some of my mother’s relatives were killed in the Holocaust.

I am a lifelong Jewish New Yorker who does NOT like Trump, to be clear. I do not agree with 95% of what he does.

But this is also the first time in my entire life that as a Jew, I do not feel safe even in NYC.

As bad as Trump is, he is not throwing people into ovens or having people dig their own graves for when they are mowed down.

IMO it’s Musk who is even more of the problem. He’s a eugenics guy who is looking to repopulate the earth with what he considers intelligent people, hence his army of children that he’s creating.

I agree with @jbirner that Jewish people are once again no longer safe anywhere.

I don’t intend to say more on this topic but IMO there is no equating Hitler with Trump, and the main thrust for Hitler was indeed Jews.

That does not take away from my good wishes for your partner’s well-being.

My opinion and experience.

I understand where you are coming from. One thing I would like to highlight though, is that for the first few years of the Nazi government, Jews weren't the people who were targeted by Hitler, specifically. You probably know what the arc of the Nazi government was, it's probably tattooed on your heart, but the first groups that the Nazis targeted were those considered enemies of the state. They were communists, trade unionists and political opponents of the Nazi regime. He imprisoned Jehovah Witnesses, the Roma, homosexuals, and career criminals. So while no one is suggesting that what the Trump administration is doing at the moment is the same as what the Nazis did once they whetted their appetite for the Final Solution, there is a corollary between the imprisonment of political opponents, or personas non gratis individuals in the beginning. Initially, if Jews were being interned in Dachau it's because they were communists or any one of the above groups. The rounding up of Jews to be interned in Dachau and the building of concentration camps began in earnest after the occupation of Germany in France, Belgium, Poland and the Netherlands.

No one is suggesting that Trump's administration is doing what Germany did, but I really think the aggressive nature of the removal of migrants and illegals and the revocation of legitimate students in the US is a warning, like a canary in a coalmine, thinking this administration will stop at migrants and international students. Trump has already voiced sending 'homegrown' criminals to international prisons. He mulled over the idea of imprisoning opponents like Liz Cheney. He's pardoned those on January 6 who stormed the Capitol and were convicted, considering them true patriots. Did you think they were patriots? Everything that is happening is incremental. Bit by bit, he's dismantling the US and her rule of law. And an awful lot of Americans are right there behind him. He can't operate in a vacuum.

 

[SouthAussie]

"A federal judge issued a temporary restraining order that blocked the Trump administration from deporting five Missouri college students.

Bough's decision states DHS cannot revoke the students’s visas. It also prevents the government from detaining or deporting the students."

Federal judge blocks deportation of 5 Missouri international college students

A federal judge issued a temporary restraining order that blocked the Trump administration from deporting five Missouri college students.

www.kshb.com

 

[SouthAussie]

"Migrants subject to removal from the U.S. under the contested Alien Enemies Act are getting about 12 hours to decide if they want to contest their removal, according to court documents unsealed Thursday — a window the government contends complies with a Supreme Court decision giving those detained under the act a “reasonable” time to appeal.

“They’re not giving any information about how they should do it, how much time they would have to do it, and 12 hours is clearly insufficient for them to reach an attorney and decide what they want to do and how they should do it.” "

Venezuelans subject to removal under wartime act have 12 hours to decide on contesting, docs show

Migrants subject to removal from the U.S. under the contested Alien Enemies Act are getting only about 12 hours to decide if they want to contest their removal, according to court documents unsealed Wednesday.

apnews.com

 

[Simply Southern]

I agree. Which is why it is such an abomination that Trump discontinued funds for their legal representation and refuses to honour the court order telling him to continue it.


The Trump administration has not complied with a federal court order directing it to continue funding legal representation for unaccompanied immigrant children

Trump admin hasn’t funded legal help for unaccompanied immigrant children despite judge’s order

Attorneys say the funding cutoff has caused chaos, with kids as young as 5 facing judges alone in immigration courts. Some are victims of sexual abuse and trafficking.

www.nbcnews.com

Certainly not defending. I do believe the court order will be overturned on appeal. I did look this one up and was surprised.

Immigration is considered a civil matter and under the law not entitled to government-funded representation. I did find the immigration procedure manual online, in the process

2.1 - Representation and Appearances Generally

www.justice.gov

Under the regulations, parties appearing before the immigration court may represent themselves (Chapter 2.2) or be represented by practitioners. See 8 C.F.R. §§ 1001.1(ff), 1292.1. Practitioners include: attorneys (Chapter 2.3), accredited representatives (Chapter 2.4), and certain categories of persons who are expressly recognized by the immigration court (Chapters 2.5, 2.8, and 2.9).

A respondent may be represented by a practitioner of their choosing, at no cost to the government. As in most civil or administrative proceedings, the government does not provide legal counsel. The immigration court provides respondents with a list of pro bono legal service providers who may be willing to represent respondents at no cost. Many of these providers may represent respondents on appeal as well. See Chapter 2.2(b) (Legal Service Providers). Bar associations and nonprofit agencies can also refer noncitizens to practitioners.

 

[SouthAussie]

Certainly not defending. I do believe the court order will be overturned on appeal. I did look this one up and was surprised.

Immigration is considered a civil matter and under the law not entitled to government-funded representation. I did find the immigration procedure manual online, in the process

2.1 - Representation and Appearances Generally

www.justice.gov

Under the regulations, parties appearing before the immigration court may represent themselves (Chapter 2.2) or be represented by practitioners. See 8 C.F.R. §§ 1001.1(ff), 1292.1. Practitioners include: attorneys (Chapter 2.3), accredited representatives (Chapter 2.4), and certain categories of persons who are expressly recognized by the immigration court (Chapters 2.5, 2.8, and 2.9).

A respondent may be represented by a practitioner of their choosing, at no cost to the government. As in most civil or administrative proceedings, the government does not provide legal counsel. The immigration court provides respondents with a list of pro bono legal service providers who may be willing to represent respondents at no cost. Many of these providers may represent respondents on appeal as well. See Chapter 2.2(b) (Legal Service Providers). Bar associations and nonprofit agencies can also refer noncitizens to practitioners.

It used to be funded. Trump has pulled the funding. It was a contract.


In the link I posted before (in the post you responded to) ....

the federal government refused to renew a contract that funds attorneys who help young migrant children who came to the United States alone or were separated from their parents go through the immigration process.

Trump admin hasn’t funded legal help for unaccompanied immigrant children despite judge’s order

Attorneys say the funding cutoff has caused chaos, with kids as young as 5 facing judges alone in immigration courts. Some are victims of sexual abuse and trafficking.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Simply Southern]

Ummmmm…You clearly didn’t even bother reading or thinking about my reply to you yesterday. Why? I read your posts. You just keep repeating what Trump and company say. I would hope you are willing to consider facts. Let’s try this again….

Much more detail at the link. Well worth reading.

Due Process and the Abrego Garcia Case - FactCheck.org​

The Supreme Court ruled on the evening of April 10 that the Trump administration must comply with a lower court's order to "facilitate" the release from custody of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, an immigrant who was deported without a hearing to a mega prison in El Salvador. The case underscores...

www.factcheck.org

It’s true that Abrego Garcia received due process after being apprehended in 2019 — ultimately getting a judgment of withholding from removal — but he was not given due process before being removed from the country in March.

“The government could have presented its evidence before an immigration judge, the federal district court in Maryland, or in criminal proceedings as it has done in prosecuting cases of other alleged MS-13 members,” foreign affairs expert Tom Joscelyn and law professor Ryan Goodman recently explained in the online publication Just Security.
<snip>

Bondi overstated the findings from the bond hearing when she said in the Oval Office meeting, “In 2019, two courts — an immigration court and an appellate immigration court — ruled that he was a member of MS-13.” The courts didn’t “rule” on the issue; rather, they said that the report relied upon by DHS was inconsistent but “appears to be trustworthy” enough to deny bond.

A different immigration judge handled Abrego Garcia’s asylum claim. That judge didn’t rule on the issue of whether or not the government had proved Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13, but the judge reviewed all the evidence presented in the case and found that Abrego Garcia “provided credible responses to the questions asked” and that his testimony was “consistent with his asylum application and other documents.” The judge didn’t grant asylum because Abrego Garcia had filed his application seven years after entering the U.S., “well-beyond the one-year filing deadline.”

However, the judge did grant him “withholding of removal,” which is a form of relief for migrants who fear persecution, as explained by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Such a ruling prevents deportation to a person’s home country and allows that person the right to remain in the U.S. and work legally, but according to the American Immigration Council, “the government is still allowed to deport that person to a different country if the other country agrees to accept them.” It does not allow a path to permanent residence or citizenship in the U.S.

The judge found that Abrego Garcia had “suffered past persecution as he was threatened with death on more than one occasion” and that “the facts here show that the Barrio 18 gang continues to threaten and harass the Abrego family over these several years, and does so even though the family has moved three times.” The judge ruled that he could not be sent back to a country where he would be likely to suffer persecution.

The government did not appeal that ruling, and Abrego Garcia has been living and working in Maryland ever since.
BBM

The lower court granted the DOJ stay on Friday. MOO... Whatever information DOJ submitted under seal, must be worthy of her review.

Federal judge temporarily halts order for details on efforts to return Abrego Garcia to US

A judge temporarily halted an order requiring the Trump administration to provide information on its efforts to retrieve a mistakenly deported man.

www.nbcwashington.com

Federal judge halts order for details on efforts to return Abrego Garcia to US​

A federal judge temporarily halted her order requiring the Trump administration to provide information on its efforts so far, if any, to retrieve a man who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador.

The seven-day pause ordered by U.S. District Judge Paula Xinis on Wednesday came with the agreement of lawyers for Kilmar Abrego Garcia, Xinis said, and is the first sign of a possible change, either in tone or position, in the contentious legal fight that already has been to the Supreme Court and led the judge to accuse administration lawyers of acting in “bad faith.”

Drew Ensign, a deputy assistant attorney general, filed a sealed motion requesting the stay of the judge’s directive for the U.S. to provide testimony and documents that involve plans to retrieve Abrego Garcia. The administration is also seeking relief from having to file daily updates on its progress.

Xinis did not explain her legal reasoning in granting the stay until April 30. She also did not make any changes to the required daily status updates.