Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[Beatrice]

Joran knew Stephany for a couple of days.
He knew her father was weathy & powerful.
Joran knew Stephany was gay.
He knew she had alot of money on her.
Joran was well aware of Natalee's disappearance anniversary.

Stephany left the casino with girlfriends & came back alone.
Same as Joran...He left with a friend & came back alone.

I have a hard time believing Stephany did not know WHO/WHAT Joran was.
She was very verbal about the dangers of women travelling alone, watching their drinks and not going back to a stranger's room.
It very well could be that she was trying to get some info about Natalee from him. She even told him she was shopping for a laptop computer....Did she ask to see his?

She was having problems with her father because of her gambling and late nights out. Maybe she asked Joran if she could crash there. Opens the laptop and sees something about Natalee & Joran (The 5 yr. Anniversary)

 

[dolly1]

Welcome Dolly!

Thank you. It has been very interesting to read all of the ideas. Because I am a woman, the below bothers me.

Where in the timeline does Joran dying his hair fit? This takes some time and planning. He had to go out and find a store to buy the dye or bleach very early in the morning. Quick Stop gas station stores usually don't sell this type of merchandise - especially in a country where the majority of the people have dark hair. He then had to go back to the room, mix it up the bleach, put it on his hair for at least 25 minutes to strip out the dark in his hair. I can tell by my own hair dying experience he didn't follow up the dye job with a toner - because his hair has red in it, which happens when you strip dark hair with bleach. He then cut his hair short. Where is the dye bottle? Receipt from the store? The container he used to mixed it up in? What did he use to cut his hair? His face is shaved clean. Did they find hair in the sink? What was in the trash basket?
Would not this go to premeditation? Ideas???

 

[ZKitty]

RE Joran claiming he was on drugs at the time of the murder...

Quick question, I admittedly know nothing about toxicology or how long drugs stay in your system, but wasn't Joran on the run for three days after the murder? Would drugs still show up in your blood after that many days?

 

[minazoe]

i don't think 21 year old girls are prone to playing detective with 6'3" pruported killers in their hotel rooms...just sayin.

 

[newcomer]

Sociopathic Personality
As we said earlier, all these sociopathic traits start surfacing during childhood, but parents tend to ignore them as minor mistakes, and the child would mend his ways as he grows up. Sociopathic tendencies in children like habitual lying, being manipulative, cruelty to animals, are more likely to worsen with time as the child grows up. Other than these traits, sociopaths often tend to associate themselves with criminal behavior. These people get unknown sort of pleasure watching someone tortured or reading about criminal activities. In quite a few cases, they themselves are associated with several criminal cases, including rape and molestation.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/sociopathic-traits.html

Couple questions:

Is is possible to intervene when the child is young and avert the sociopath tendancies? Or is this something that is inevitable. It was reported that JVS did get counseling at one time when he was young but obviously it didn't help him.

I know people have talked about JVS killing a dog, but it so far no one has found evidence to that effect, have they?

Somewhere I heard something about him throwing a bum off a bridge. Can anyone verify that as well? Or is this a rumor like the dog incident?

 

[newcomer]

RE Joran claiming he was on drugs at the time of the murder...

Quick question, I admittedly know nothing about toxicology or how long drugs stay in your system, but wasn't Joran on the run for three days after the murder? Would drugs still show up in your blood after that many days?

http://howlongdoesmarijuanastayinyoursystem.net/

It states 4-7 days. Hmmm...his being a big guy, could he have metabolized it in 4 days?

 

[Beatrice]

Joran may have not completed all the counselling sessions.

The killing of the dog was told by his neighbor on the Natalee boards.

 

[Labrat]

Thank you. It has been very interesting to read all of the ideas. Because I am a woman, the below bothers me.

Where in the timeline does Joran dying his hair fit? This takes some time and planning. He had to go out and find a store to buy the dye or bleach very early in the morning. Quick Stop gas station stores usually don't sell this type of merchandise - especially in a country where the majority of the people have dark hair. He then had to go back to the room, mix it up the bleach, put it on his hair for at least 25 minutes to strip out the dark in his hair. I can tell by my own hair dying experience he didn't follow up the dye job with a toner - because his hair has red in it, which happens when you strip dark hair with bleach. He then cut his hair short. Where is the dye bottle? Receipt from the store? The container he used to mixed it up in? What did he use to cut his hair? His face is shaved clean. Did they find hair in the sink? What was in the trash basket?
Would not this go to premeditation? Ideas???

Shaved his head- rubbed the stubble with peroxide- done!

I used peroxide as a toner once and bleached my eyebrows by accident- that's the color I got. My hair is the same color as Joran's. I really doubt he put any effort into it at all. Some people use peroxide as a mouth rinse, etc. He could have had it with him.

 

[Columbo]

Olay, I'll give just a few examples of why my research focused so much on the Beth/Mountain Brook connection. First, we have an official immigration document that shows Beth went through customs in Aruba at 7:45 p.m., after initially learning Natalee was missing. In her book, and every interview she's ever given, Beth states that she arrived at app. 11:00 p.m. This is a huge discrephancy, and it throws off her entire timeline of what allegedly happened after she landed on the island.

Second, it has been stated countless times that Natalee "was last seen" entering a car with Joran and the Kalpoes. The problem is, if one analyzes the statements from her friends/students at the bar, one discovers that NONE of them is on the record as having seen her get in a car with anyone that night. Only two people reported even seeing her leave the bar, one said "looked like with Joran" and the other one described her being with the Kalpoes, but said nothing about Joran. Despite this, Beth immediately seemed to focus on Joran and Joran only, and would go on to declare in a t.v. interview that "20-40" of Natalee's friends had seen her get in the car with Joran and the Kalpoes.

While the rumors and allegations against Joran, leveled by Beth and others over the years, almost invariably cannot be substantiated when one looks for sources, the ones about Beth (thought not all of them) are a lot easier to source. Again, not accusing Beth of being involved in Natalee's disappearance. I don't think she set out to be dishonest, but people sometimes become desperate when they're trying to conceal embarrassing family secrets. Imo, Natalee had a very unhappy home life.

So, with my view of Beth colored by what I've been researching, it was only natural for me to instantly suspect that something was fishy about the murder in Peru. Joran is a very hard guy to defend, even if, like me, you don't believe he's a murderer. He has done a lot of stupid things, showed little empathy for others, and appears willing to do almost anything for money. All in all, hardly a sterling character, but someone I firmly believe was framed.

bolded by me.

I'm wondering how you gained access to an official Immigration document. Are these documents available to the public? Possibly it was made public during the Holloway case and I just didn't know. Thanks.

 

[suzihawk]

Thank you. It has been very interesting to read all of the ideas. Because I am a woman, the below bothers me.

Where in the timeline does Joran dying his hair fit? This takes some time and planning. He had to go out and find a store to buy the dye or bleach very early in the morning. Quick Stop gas station stores usually don't sell this type of merchandise - especially in a country where the majority of the people have dark hair. He then had to go back to the room, mix it up the bleach, put it on his hair for at least 25 minutes to strip out the dark in his hair. I can tell by my own hair dying experience he didn't follow up the dye job with a toner - because his hair has red in it, which happens when you strip dark hair with bleach. He then cut his hair short. Where is the dye bottle? Receipt from the store? The container he used to mixed it up in? What did he use to cut his hair? His face is shaved clean. Did they find hair in the sink? What was in the trash basket?
Would not this go to premeditation? Ideas???

Hi Dolly. Welcome...

It was three days before Joran was captured. He spent at least one night in a hotel (Santiago). I assumed he dyed/bleached his hair while on the run. My first comment was that it certainly displayed a consciousness of guilt.

 

[mlefey]

JVS wants to be allowed t serve his sentence in Aruba. He does not want to be in jail in Peru for fear they will kill him.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/493794/joran-van-der-sloot-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel
The link is in spanish
Google translation. http://translate.google.com/transla...t-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel&sl=es&tl=en

Thank you, fran

 

[Sarahlou]

Gotta admit I googled for naked photos of Joran too. If the photo wasn't doctored, I can understand why he has had anger problems all his life. ...........seriously unendowed. Might also explain his penchant for demeaning women by selling them as sex slaves.

Is it the photo on the beach? Coz it looks to me as if he has tucked his goods between his legs! Lol.
Anyway I'm glad he's now in prison and can't hurt anyone again for hopefully a very very long time.

 

[Beatrice]

Holloway's reward money: 1 Million for the safe return of Natalee
250,000 for info about location of her remains

Joran points to a house that wasn't built in 2005.
Could it be she was buried under the foundation?

 

[Labrat]

Couple questions:

Is is possible to intervene when the child is young and avert the sociopath tendancies? Or is this something that is inevitable. It was reported that JVS did get counseling at one time when he was young but obviously it didn't help him.

I know people have talked about JVS killing a dog, but it so far no one has found evidence to that effect, have they?

Somewhere I heard something about him throwing a bum off a bridge. Can anyone verify that as well? Or is this a rumor like the dog incident?

I also saw reference to him beating one of his younger brothers. I think these things were word-of-mouth references from 5 years ago from people on Aruba. I don't think they've actually been published.

I read a fascinating article once about sociopathy (unfortunately I would never be able to find the link again). In it the doctor said that one theory is the person is born with some sort of deficit which is then either encouraged or discouraged by family influence and the culture they live in. He said that although the percentages of these people is the same world wide, you see more sociopathic behavior in the US because the culture has come to promote selfishness, and less in certain asian countries where sacrifice for the family is promoted. His theory was that the family/culture had a strong effect because sociopaths will try to fit into their surroundings somewhat. This was his also his reasoning for the difference between common criminals and "snakes in suits" - the direction of the behavior being influenced by IQ, socioeconomic background and education. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but it was very interesting food for thought.

 

[tiredofthis]

JVS wants to be allowed t serve his sentence in Aruba. Does not want to be in jail in Peru for fear they will kill him.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/493794/joran-van-der-sloot-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel
The link is in spanish

Wow....The killer is afraid he will be killed.

An eye for an eye, Joran! :furious:

(mods, please delete if inappropriate)

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Wow....The killer is afraid he will be killed. An eye for an eye, Joran! :furious:

He's already handed out the death penalty twice, from what I can tell, and for frivolous reasons.

I don't feel sorry for him at all.

 

[Carolina Girl]

bolded by me.

I'm wondering how you gained access to an official Immigration document. Are these documents available to the public? Possibly it was made public during the Holloway case and I just didn't know. Thanks.

Very good question. But could she not simply be saying to her (Alabama time), it was 11? What is the time difference?

 

[ZKitty]

Holloway's reward money: 1 Million for the safe return of Natalee
250,000 for info about location of her remains

Joran points to a house that wasn't built in 2005.
Could it be she was buried under the foundation?

There is a full article about it, I think, at msnbc. But they researched the possibilty of her being buried at that location and found that the house hadn't even been built at that time....here is link to another article about it:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/146108454

 

[SleuthyGal]

Joran is a very hard guy to defend, even if, like me, you don't believe he's a murderer. He has done a lot of stupid things, showed little empathy for others, and appears willing to do almost anything for money.

JVDS himself said, even from the very early days of NH's disappearance, when there was NO money involved or changing hands, that he was with NH that night, on the beach. He changed his story about where things ended and how they ended, multiple times, but no one forced him to admit to being with NH.

Further, you see JVDS on video talking about how he was with NH on the beach when she passed out and he arranged to have her body dumped. Again, WHY would JVDS implicate himself in this case? He spent a few months in jail in Aruba before being released. Why? Because he implicated himself in this crime (and yes, it was a crime, what he did to NH). Why would a (then) 17 yr. old want to be in jail?

There's dumb and then there's evil. JVDS is evil incarnate. He most def. is involved in the disappearance of NH, by his OWN admission, and he continued to talk about it over the years, more so as he realized he could then make money from it. No one set him up and no one framed him. He did it to himself. He reached out first to try and extort money from Beth Holloway. He murdered SFR in Peru.

I know hearing the truth hurts when you want to believe something else entirely, and the human mind can conjure up all kinds of nefarious possibilities and then run with it, but there's no conspiracy going on here.

JVDS is his own worst enemy, he's the enemy of young naive women, and he's a cold-hearted double-murderer who isn't sorry he did the crimes; he's only sorry he was caught this time. And mark my words: he's not going free. No amount of fictional 'conspiracy theories' proposed are going to help him. They've got him, and they've got the physical, behavioral, and direct evidence to convict him. Put a fork in him--he's done! Cooked his own goose.

 

[texaslb218]

http://howlongdoesmarijuanastayinyoursystem.net/

It states 4-7 days. Hmmm...his being a big guy, could he have metabolized it in 4 days?

marijuana 30 days as a standard. HA! not from personal knowledge.