Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[suzihawk]

Does anyone have a link to the photo of Joran when he was in the police car with the blue lights behind him...I have been trying to locate it on the web and cannot find it for the life of me....Thanks

I don't have a link, but I saved a copy to my computer. Scary, isn't it?

ETA: I see the good Dr. Fessel beat me to the punch with the nice little embellished water mark.

 

[3doglady]

Jan Van der Staaten

 

[Kimmer]

I guess when Interpol start going methodically thru his passport and if they are able to link any other unsolved murders or crimes to him, Then that will be considered a set up also....I really hate to even waste a post on such crazy talk....All I will say is if a book is being written about that kind of nonsense I sure hope there are some good attorneys on retainer.

 

[suzihawk]

I'd like to make a common sense response to Unreals's theories:

1. No one connected with this case--not Joran, not the Kalpoes, not Joran's attorney, not the Aruban authorities, not Joran's father, not the MB students--has ever disputed that Natalee left with Joran and the Kalpoes. After five years, this is an established fact.
2. There is now tape and documents from the extortion case in which Joran admits he knows where Natalee's body is. In addition to the extortion attempt and the undercover video of Joran admitting he was present when Natalee died, now we have accounts that he is telling Peruvian LE he knows where her body is. While Joran is clearly an habitual liar, one thing is consistent about his statements: he knows what happened to Natalee and where her body is. See point 1.
3. Who benefits from the unfounded claims that Beth Holloway is somehow dishonest or that Natalee had a bad home life?? Only Joran, his family, Arubans who hope to cover up the death of a tourist or the corruption of LE that declined to prosecute the son of prominent man, and others who hope to profit from this case being a mystery. It's never been a mystery. Not even the unwillingness of Aruban LE to prosecute is a mystery. The only things we don't know are how Natalee died and what Joran did with her body.
4. How anyone can look at the evidence already available to the public in Stephany's murder and not conclude that Joran is a killer is beyond me. Even his various attorneys are not proclaiming his innocence. The hope is to get him incarcerated in the most favorable spot. There is a law in the US that allows the US to press for the extradition of those who are suspected of murdering US nationals in other countries. Peru and the US have an extradition treaty, so that he may well face murder charges, as well as extortion charges, in the US. Of course he wants to go back to Aruba; he got away with murder there.
5. Beth Holloway got on a plane and flew to Aruba to find her missing daughter, I don't care a rat's patootie when she got on or off a plane or whether her version of the timeline of her actions fits with one reconstructed by someone who wasn't there and doesn't know her. It doesn't matter if she and Natalee's father was divorced or whether she and Natalee got along at the time of the disappearance. Beth, Jug Twitty, Dave Holloway and their family and friends have fought like tigers to find this girl's body and bring her home. For five years. Beth coughs up thousands of dollars in the extortion sting in the hope of finding the body. Now that yet another family has been robbed of a young daughter at the beginning of adult life, it is ludicrous to rehash these so-called discrepancies about Beth's movements and motives in Aruba.

Unreals, it might be time to look at Joran and ask yourself what there is about his actions in the past five years that suggests he is an innocent man being framed by two governments and two different families.

BRAVO!! BRAVO!! :clap:

CASE CLOSED

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I watched Dateline last night. The second hour was the story of how the author of the book The Secret allowed some of his 'followers' to die during a sweat lodge ceremony.

Based on what I've been reading here on threads 5 and 6, beware of being led to any sweat lodges. One good thing, I've never been an eager follower.

 

[georger]

i don't think 21 year old girls are prone to playing detective with 6'3" pruported killers in their hotel rooms...just sayin.

I agree, including diminutive creatures like her. Very likely Joran had
something on her and they went back to his room to settle it, maybe
divide up money, and Joran already was mad and something happened
between them the instant the door was closed, all very quickly, and he
tied her up and began his revenge on her from on top and behind and
her neck gave way ... she is dead ... then he wonders 'now what to do'
and cleans up and looks for an alibi ....

Thjis man has a long recorded history of BAD TEMPER going clear back
to childhood. Irrational bad temper. It is his personality. Withthis Joran
stands on his own large feet and everything goes kaput around him wherever he goes. There is a word for this I wont say here. He is where
he belongs ... and everyone with a brain knows it.

 

[3doglady]

Funny...I was just reading over some old transcripts and came across an interview discussing the "God Father", VanderStraaten, etc.

Here's what I've found thus far:

<snipped>

JUG TWITTY: Yes, there`s all kinds of rumors about -- you know, that he was Joran`s godfather and all the different -- you know, I don`t know if any of that`s true.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa!

JUG TWITTY: I know they were probably...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait! Oh!

JUG TWITTY: That was a rumor...

GRACE: Godfather?

JUG TWITTY: ... that was all over the island, so...

GRACE: Well, how can you find out if it`s true?

from: http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html

I'm writing this from memory so I hope I have this correct. Joran wrote a book and described Van der Staaten as a good friend of his fathers. Joran said that VanderStaaten wanted Joran in a mental institution but his father would not stand for it.

 

[Nana46]

Ya know in the end it does not matter why in the hello world SF went back to his room (I would love to know why but never will)
There is nothing on this earth that can ever excuse him killing her for whatever slimy reason he thought of...nothing....you don't have to kill someone.............never ever. He did it and it is over for him. Sorry rant over and I will go fold laundry,lol

 

[pittsburghgirl]

What in the name of heaven could Natalee's family cover up? The only way that what they were doing after arriving on the island could matter is if one of them murdered Natalee. That she failed to return to the hotel that night and failed to get to the airport BEFORE her family found out about it would indicate to a reasonable person that someone on Aruba is responsible for her death.Not her family in another country.

That of course is an inconvenient point to make when no other suspects have turned up, Joran has confessed multiple times in situations where he faced no consequences, and he has now killed again. And confessed again. But this time, the DNA and the video back up the core of the confession. He killed Stephany. We will probably never know exactly when or why, just as we will never know when or why he killed Natalee. Maybe just because he could.

 

[songline]

suzihawk,

Yes, we've all heard that her friends saw her getting into the car, they shouted at her, she shouted something back, etc. The problem is, when you examine their individual statements, you find that none of them testified to that. If you can come up with one who is on the record saying he/she saw her get into a car, let me know, because I couldn't.

The fact that an official document shows Beth got to Aruba about four hours earler than she claimed is obviously very important. First, it establishes that she didn't tell the truth about something that, on the surface, seems perhaps innocuous. However, there had to be a reason why she did that; obviously she knew whether it was light or dark outside, for instance, when she got there, since she described seeing the lights of Aruba in the dark (when it would have been light outside at the time she actually arrived). It also throws off her entire timeline, and in fact the timeline we've all relied on when sorting out the facts in the Holloway case.

Family skeletons can be the most important thing in the world to those who would be most embarrassed by them. As I said, it doesn't seem that Natalee had a very happy home life. As I also said, I don't think Beth intentionally set out to lie, or do anything wrong. I can only guess at the motivation behind a lot of the things she's said and done over the years. I bear no animosity towards her or her family. On the other hand, the attitude she and some of her fellow Mountain Brookies adopt can best be expressed by the email I received, from one of Beth's best friends, shortly after the story in Peru broke. It said simply, "so what's your 'take' on Joran now?" A taunting, childish snipe- and I received no reply when I responded with my personal doubts about the details coming out of Peru.

Anyhow, I've talked too much about a project that will have to be reworked considerably in light of what's happened over the past week and a half. I think I'll confine my posts to just speculating about the "evidence" coming out of Peru.

I am sure we agree that Beth did not kill her daughter, I am sure we agree that Beth had no reason to be calculated about the time she arrived, because it could not possibly change the status of Natalee. It could however just mean she was out of her mind with torment of her daughters safety, well being, or demise. It sounds to me that you are off on some trail that is not sensible to me. Sorry, but I can not follow your line of thought.
for now however I agree that we have a way to keep him on LWOP in the very least for the second murder. Let's see how the Natalee case will play out. I think that finally her mom will get closure 0 it may take some time, but I think it is coming. I am happy for her that she has a new relationship with JBR father. amazing but true, their grief got them together.

 

[KR2tonenow]

View attachment 9589

Jan Van der Staaten

Is this the "Godfather" in Aruba?

 

[georger]

Thanks for sharing the Good Housekeeping article!

Now, in the article, Beth says Joran described Natalee's underwear. Do men really remember the details of women's underwear? Like the colors of flowers or whatever. Maybe he kept it? Sometimes serial killers keep things from their victims as a souvenir. I also wonder if he was trying to do the same thing with Stefany's underwear then he saw that she was on her period and changed his mind. If that is what happened, that would explain why she wasn't wearing pants when she was found.

Just a thought.

Yes, he would keep trophies and memories. He lives in an under-world.
He is not capable to functioning in the normal world th rest of us struggle
in daily, so he takes whatever small victories and trophies wherever he can as proof of accomplishment, just like the rest of us.

Very likely somebody told him very young he was no good and it got
reinforced, and he took it to heart, and now he is what he is for the
rest of us to have to deal with ...

This isnt rocket science of some great mystery or conspiracy.

 

[songline]

I watched Dateline last night. The second hour was the story of how the author of the book The Secret allowed some of his 'followers' to die during a sweat lodge ceremony.

Based on what I've been reading here on threads 5 and 6, beware of being led to any sweat lodges. One good thing, I've never been an eager follower.

Hi WBG, You know I admire you but what on Gods earth does this have to do with this case? :waitasec:
Been to several sweat lodges in my life and it was a purification that I really enjoyed.
there are many azz holes in this world - my advise is use your head, but dont make all sweat lodges wrong just because one azz hole was calloused.

 

[KR2tonenow]

I sincerely believe that accusing Beth Holloway is the last thing we went to do on this thread. Let's please just stick to the facts of this case!!~

 

[georger]

Good thought.

http://www.happyzebra.com/timezones-worldclock/difference-from-Oranjestad.php

According to this website: Birmingham (US) * -1:0 hrs difference

So what does that mean (I'm really stupid!)? If she arrived at 11 Aruba time, it was 10 Alabama time? Or if she arrived at 8 Aruba time, it was 7 Alabama time, etc? Assuming this website is correct.

It means nobody was keeping a score sheet. Then spectators outside
demanded one for some wierd reason (reasons of their own) claiming that
since there was a time discrepancy that meant .... I can sell a book
about it and look smart and get rich of it. Tabloids do this every day.

 

[ks1]

Ya know in the end it does not matter why in the hello world SF went back to his room (I would love to know why but never will)
There is nothing on this earth that can ever excuse him killing her for whatever slimy reason he thought of...nothing....you don't have to kill someone.............never ever. He did it and it is over for him. Sorry rant over and I will go fold laundry,lol

Maybe HE checked his email and was ticked that there was no email from Beth's attorney advising that money had been wired. I agree with you, there is no reason that he could ever come up with to justify murdering either Stephany or Natalie.

 

[costalpilot]

Let me just put it this way. His story was that he went out for coffee, came back and found her on his laptop. Now it appears he did not go out to get coffee, he actually came out of the room with the cups and apparently pretended to be locked out of the room. So what makes you think any part of the story he told the police was the truth? If he did not go out for coffee, then how would she manage to get on his laptop without his permission long enough to find something incriminating-the room is very tiny.

it was unbelievable that ANYONE believed anything he said...

really.

 

[KR2tonenow]

It's hilarious to me that van der Sloot would call 'an International ManHunt
for his crimes' ... "my private life".

Interpol has large file on this fellow -

Joran's private life?

There's no doubt in mind, that JVDS has been surrounded by some pretty nefarious characters in the last 5 years. I find that statement to be of "mob" mentality.

 

[suzihawk]

I'm writing this from memory so I hope I have this correct. Joran wrote a book and described Van der Staaten as a good friend of his fathers. Joran said that VanderStaaten wanted Joran in a mental institution but his father would not stand for it.

Joran wrote a book?!

 

[georger]

I was under the impression after reading this article that was posted here at WS yesterday that there is no coffee run video that JVS used coffee cups from his room. Do we still believe there could be another video?

Guardia also told The Daily Beast that van der Sloot lied about the timing of the murder. Earlier in the week, he told investigators that he had gone out to buy coffee for himself and Flores, and killed her when he returned to the room after finding the young woman on his computer. In fact, according to Guardia, hotel surveillance cameras show that van der Sloot faked his early-morning coffee run. Instead, he left the room with two empty paper cups and then summoned a member of the hotel staff to open his door, lying that he had forgotten his key.
http://abcnews.go.com/International...oot-high-night-peru-killing/story?id=10893791

I have seen nothing to prove he left and got coffee that morning.
Forensics founds two full cups of old coffee in his room along with
other empty cups ... coffee stains on carpet. Prior to Flores even
going in he had occupied that apartment for 2-3 days? He had already
purchased coffees and taken them to his room well before the killing.