Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

[jilly]

***snipped respectfully for space***

I am going to recount my experience of being "in denial" because, before this happened, I thought being in denial was a willful state. Now I think it is not something a person chooses, and that it is a response to a serious matter which is 100% unacceptable to the person it is happening to. I think the seriousness of the state of being in denial has been trivialized through its application to other states of mind that can be characterized as "willful ignorance".

I read years ago during the Scott Peterson case that denial is a defense mechanism that we all have which automatically kicks in to protect ourself.

 

[i.b.nora]

I'm having a hard time understanding the vast descrepancies between the above and the other sources that say things that are quite contradictory. I'm just so confused. :waitasec:

I mean no disrespect to ROL as they've certainly scooped a lot of celebrity news before others. But I guess that's my point. Of all the worldwide news agencies, why would the Peruvian powers that be release this information to ROL? It just make sense to me.

Its all about MONEY.

American Media, Inc., is a publisher of a number of major United States based magazines and supermarket tabloids.

Publications:
The National Enquirer
Star
The Globe
National Examiner
Sun
Country Weekly
¡Mira!
Muscle & Fitness
Muscle & Fitness Hers
Shape
Men's Fitness
Flex
Natural Health
Radar Online

 

[doobiedoo52]

I forgot about the man being thrown from the bridge thing. Are there any actual rivers on Aruba? JMO but a bridge could mean over a stream or creek as well. Nothing has ever said the man was dead. He might have landed in a few feet of water and been fine or it could even be a small walking bridge. Granted it's still unacceptable behavior but I can't believe the man was killed if there were several witnesses willing to share the story and Joran was never charged.

 

[hollyblue]

Well...Given your theory I can tell you that my daughter was taught about morals and honesty.
I can also tell you she is mentally ill and lies up a storm, and cons her way through everything.
That is the nature of some mentally ill people. I took a course on mental health. go look it up. you are mistaken.in your evaluation. MAYBE He too was taught right from wrong but I doubt that given his Dad and his dads best friend (police chief) have not been straight forward I imagine this guy may not have been taught ethics. BUT on top of that to have a mental illness is no piece of cake.
He should be incarcerated for life to protect the innocent. And to be punished for his doing. BUT he may also need meds.

Meds do not teach rationalization. Give them a pill to calm them down and let them go on their merry way...sorry I have a hard time with that. It's people trying to bypass the real problem with good, practical therapy....then they go off of the meds and the problem persists. How many times have we heard of the scenario where "he apparently stop taking his meds" in the news of someone who's killed. Sometimes I think it does more damage to their reality than good. JMO. If he is a psychopath...professionals have yet to figure out a cure. And it's true that some people are so cunning that they take what they learn in counseling and twist it to their meet their own devious means. Then there are some many professionals don't even want to deal with .....some are just pure evil.

People of The Lie---M. Scott Peck

I am not saying meds should not be used....I'm just saying they should be used with much discretion and they are rampantly over prescribed for various "problems" within many people. Again, JMO.

I agree that at least if the parents would have gotten in his face with reality...JVS's real problems would have surfaced a very long time ago.

 

[songline]

Meds do not teach rationalization. Give them a pill to calm them down and let them go on their merry way...sorry I have a hard time with that. It's people trying to bypass the real problem with good, practical therapy....then they go off of the meds and the problem persists. How many times have we heard of the scenario where "he apparently stop taking his meds" in the news of someone who's killed. Sometimes I think it does more damage to their reality than good. JMO. If he is a psychopath...professionals have yet to figure out a cure. And it's true that some people are so cunning that they take what they learn in counseling and twist it to their meet their own devious means. Then there are some many professionals don't even want to deal with .....some are just pure evil.

People of The Lie---M. Scott Peck

I am not saying meds should not be used....I'm just saying they should be used with much discretion and they are rampantly over prescribed for various "problems" within many people. Again, JMO.

I agree that at least if the parents would have gotten in his face with reality...JVS's real problems would have surfaced a very long time ago.

it is apparent that you are not replying to me, because in all of my posts I say he needs to be incarcerated.
So I do not know whom you are replying to: My Daughter is one of those people who goes off her meds and is irrational. So I would know how that works.
But I also say his mom wants him medicated rather then ending up with a knife in his back.
AND YES they do act more rational when they are medicated.

 

[songline]

Its all about MONEY.

American Media, Inc., is a publisher of a number of major United States based magazines and supermarket tabloids.

Publications:
The National Enquirer
Star
The Globe
National Examiner
Sun
Country Weekly
¡Mira!
Muscle & Fitness
Muscle & Fitness Hers
Shape
Men's Fitness
Flex
Natural Health
Radar Online

ITA that it is about money.

 

[songline]

After catching up on my reading here since last night, I just have a couple of comments. Part of Stephany's finger was NOT missing. Here is the portion of the transcript from NG's June 7th show:

Let`s go down the body. Broken neck, blunt trauma to the torso. And as you see in this figure, that blunt trauma goes from just below the shoulders all the way down to the navel. Dark red bruising on the inside of her right elbow, the inside. What is that? Guarantee you that will end up to be thumbprints of her attacker grabbing her like this by the arms with such force, it leaves bruising on the inside of the elbow.

Put that diagram back up, please, Dana. As you can see, on her right arm, a circle on the dark red bruising. On the finger, her right index finger it looks like to me -- no, forefinger -- there is an open wound, likely sustained during a struggle. What does this say? This says she was fighting.

She is merely correcting her original observation of which finger had the wound on it.
I agree with whoever said earlier about the green bruising--it is old bruising--possibly soccer injuries to the feet. This also may explain her awkward walk.

I actually feel that the injuries detailed could be exactly as VDS described the attack.
If they were sitting on the bed with the wall to their backs on the computer. For some reason-whether it's an email or not, he ends up elbowing her to the nose. He is quite a bit larger than her and his elbow lifted could be at her face level. Head and nose wounds bleed profusely I might add. He turns and begins choking her probably dragging her down on to the bed. The choking could produce enough pressure to dislodge an already injured eye. The mattress could have been moved when dragging her down onto the bed. Then he throws her to the floor and she hit the bed frame on her way down. He removes his shirt and goes to finish her off with smothering. Whatever amount of clothing she has on has blood on it as well as any laying close by. The position of her dead body produces the rest of the discoloration as the blood settles after death. The finger wound I still think could have been a key ring or something in her hand she tried to use for defense. It was probably forceable ripped from her finger.

As far as the robbery part or wanting money from her, I'm sure that was the original attraction she posed to VDS. He had several days to investigate her family finances. I still think it was an impulse killing--an act of rage. I don't think he had any intention of killing her--she would be a cash cow to him alive, if he got into her good graces. Too late now. All JMO.

hmmm "IMPULSE KILLING" I am just so glad that most people do not have such impulse. :waitasec:
But I dont think it was a plan, he is to smart to have planed it this way with so many camera looking over him.

 

[songline]

I'm going to use the denial process as a mother, for myself. If my child would have done something like this, even with a troubled past, my first instinct would be NO WAY! My child could not do anything so horrific. I would have to go back to the way I raised my child and insist that he/she could not have done this. Then, as AVS, I would be going thru my denial phase. She doesn't want to think that her child could have done this. In my denial stage I would be left alone with my thoughts. But then, I would sooner or later, with all the evidence against my child have to come to the jury stage of my childs life and look at all the evidence. COULD my child have done this? That leaves me being the judge of my childs life and I would have to make a decision on whether or not I believed that this was at all possible. That's when I would have to talk to my child and make him do the right thing. IMO AVS has had a lifetime of being on the Jury..It's time to judge her son of his crimes and together with him do the right thing.

That is what the Anthony's are doing as well. IMHO it would be your instinctive reaction to say "My child it cant be" but after you have been made aware of a lot of other things you would have to deal with the issues at hand or else I would have to call it willful denial.
I never wanted to believe that my daughter is mentally ill, she was a great girl. lets leave it at that. there is a point of having to deal with what is real.
ITA with your way of coming to terms with it.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Friends Ditch Van der Sloot

<snip>

Should he be convicted in Peru, however, he will have to serve his entire sentence there before he can go on trial in Aruba.
In Peru, a court-appointed lawyer, who will represent him now that his private attorney has bailed, is likely to seek a plea bargain arrangement that includes serving any sentence in protective custody.
Van der Sloot is on suicide watch, and already, there are reports that the young Dutchman has a price on his head inside the dangerous prison. <snip>


Interesting!

 

[rotterdam]

If this was correctly reported then Anita gave Peruvian authorities their proof of premeditation. At the bottom of the article, it reports that days before Stephany's murder, Joran called Anita and told her the 'we were arrested and robbed" story--same story he gave to Chilean police. .http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/20/joran-van-der-sloot-menta_n_618625.html

I looked at the original telegraaf Dutch version of the interview in their paper version, and indeed Anita states this telephone call as occurring some days before Stephanys' death.
A Dutch friend Emailed the article to me(has paid access to the E version of the complete Telegraaf).
I can not really post it here since my link is my Email. Besides , it is in Dutch.
Unless somebody has another suggestion.

Duh, it just occurred to me that Stephany's death was reported on Wednesday, so the call could have been on Monday.

 

[KR2tonenow]

If this was correctly reported then Anita gave Peruvian authorities their proof of premeditation. At the bottom of the article, it reports that days before Stephany's murder, Joran called Anita and told her the 'we were arrested and robbed" story--same story he gave to Chilean police. .http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/20/joran-van-der-sloot-menta_n_618625.html

Thanks for this!

AVDS stated as saying - where the interview with Anita van der Sloot was conducted. She told the newspaper her son disappeared in mid-May, two days before he was scheduled to travel to the Netherlands for treatment in a mental institution.
"I can't cry for Joran like I did for Paul. I hope that he gets psychological help."

 

[Eileen O'B]

Friends Ditch Van der Sloot

<snip>

Should he be convicted in Peru, however, he will have to serve his entire sentence there before he can go on trial in Aruba.
In Peru, a court-appointed lawyer, who will represent him now that his private attorney has bailed, is likely to seek a plea bargain arrangement that includes serving any sentence in protective custody.
Van der Sloot is on suicide watch, and already, there are reports that the young Dutchman has a price on his head inside the dangerous prison. <snip>


Interesting!

The U.S. has already charged JVS with extortion and wire fraud.

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localn...with-extortion-in/9r_QnmjgB02rLC4YAE30Ew.cspx

Wire fraud is an extraditable offence. Therefore, even IF he survives any Peru sentence, the U.S. would get first dibbs on JVS. If convicted, he'd have to serve any time here before Aruba could get him back there to stand trial for murder.

JVS has a bleak future.

 

[hollyblue]

I'm confused, who is reporting "the body was not wearing the Niki shirt"?

ETA: IIRC, Nancy aired the police report (attached thumbnail) on June 7, 2010

Wow, after all the discussion last night about the apparent injuries in the sternum area, this doesn't show any. ??

 

[PassTheMotrin]

After your children reach a certain age,all any parent can do is try to advise,they don't have to listen.

I totally agree with you. I bailed my son out of jail once and I told him if he were to ever do something stupid and get arrested again, he was on his own.

So what does he do? He goes out, does something stupid and gets arrested again. :crazy: What did I do? I let him stay there. Even when I heard that he'd been taken to the county hospital for an emergency appendectomy, I still let him stay there. He needed to learn his lesson and I was not about to enable him to repeat it by bailing him out. I guess he learned his lesson, because he hasn't been back.

I'm a mean mom.

 

[FLNY]

I looked at the original telegraaf Dutch version of the interview in their paper version, and indeed Anita states this telephone call as occurring some days before Stephanys' death.
A Dutch friend Emailed the article to me(has paid access to the E version of the complete Telegraaf).
I can not really post it here since my link is my Email. Besides , it is in Dutch.
Unless somebody has another suggestion.

Duh, it just occurred to me that Stephany's death was reported on Wednesday, so the call could have been on Monday.

How great that you have the full article! Just wondering does it also include the statement reported by ABC news from Telegraaf:

According to ABC news, quoting from her interview with Dutch newspaper ' De Telegraaf': "She said she spoke to him on the telephone the day before he was arrested attempting to flee Peru for Chile, as police searched for him in the death of the young woman Stephany Flores in his Lima hotel room. "

"I said, 'Joran, you're being searched internationally. A girl is dead. Where are you?'" she said, according to the newspaper. "He sounded frightened. 'A girl dead?' Then he fell silent for a moment and said, 'It's not Stephany, is it? No, not Stephany!' I told him he had to turn himself in."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-...-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

Just wondering if both versions are in the real report to determine whether Huffington or ABC has the correct version.

 

[panthera]

Thanks for this!

AVDS stated as saying - where the interview with Anita van der Sloot was conducted. She told the newspaper her son disappeared in mid-May, two days before he was scheduled to travel to the Netherlands for treatment in a mental institution.
"I can't cry for Joran like I did for Paul. I hope that he gets psychological help."

I wonder if Joran is getting any of this news that we are reading. Pretty sad state he's gotten himself into that his own mother would say this; and all he has left are his lawyer (maybe) and the Colombian hitman. MOO

 

[Eileen O'B]

I wonder if Joran is getting any of this news that we are reading. Pretty sad state he's gotten himself into that his own mother would say this; and all he has left are his lawyer (maybe) and the Colombian hitman. MOO

Right, and the lawyer's got to be paid to be loyal.

 

[panthera]

Right, and the lawyer's got to be paid to be loyal.

Very true. I think the worst thing that can happen to someone is to lose the support of their family, especially their mother, and even though they deserve it. MOO

 

[rotterdam]

How great that you have the full article! Just wondering does it also include the statement reported by ABC news from Telegraaf:

According to ABC news, quoting from her interview with Dutch newspaper ' De Telegraaf': "She said she spoke to him on the telephone the day before he was arrested attempting to flee Peru for Chile, as police searched for him in the death of the young woman Stephany Flores in his Lima hotel room. "

"I said, 'Joran, you're being searched internationally. A girl is dead. Where are you?'" she said, according to the newspaper. "He sounded frightened. 'A girl dead?' Then he fell silent for a moment and said, 'It's not Stephany, is it? No, not Stephany!' I told him he had to turn himself in."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-...-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

Just wondering if both versions are in the real report to determine whether Huffington or ABC has the correct version.

Yep, that is correct. Anita is referencing two calls she made to Joran.
Huffington reports on the first call. ABC reports on the second call.
Both are correct.

Below is the original source in Dutch (Telegraaf) as it refers to those two call.

snipped
Enkele dagen voor de dood van Stephany in Lima belde hij naar huis. „Hij klonk vreemd en gejaagd”, zegt Anita. „Hij zei dat hij werd achtervolgd. Hij was samen met een meisje aangehouden en beroofd. Twee mannen hadden hem foto’s van Natalee laten zien. Hij was heel angstig en onsamenhangend. Was het waar? Of zat het in zijn hoofd?”
De dag voor zijn aanhouding sprak ze hem opnieuw. „Ik zei: Joran, je wordt internationaal gezocht. Er is een meisje dood. Waar ben je?” Hij was op weg naar Chili. „Hij klonk angstig. ’Een meisje dood?’ Toen viel hij even stil en zei: ’Het is toch niet Stephany? Nee, niet Stephany!’ Ik zei dat hij zich moest aangeven.”

 

[rotterdam]

Yep, that is correct. Anita is referencing two calls she made to Joran.
Huffington reports on the first call. ABC reports on the second call.
Both are correct.

Below is the original source in Dutch (Telegraaf) as it refers to those two call.

snipped
Enkele dagen voor de dood van Stephany in Lima belde hij naar huis. „Hij klonk vreemd en gejaagd”, zegt Anita. „Hij zei dat hij werd achtervolgd. Hij was samen met een meisje aangehouden en beroofd. Twee mannen hadden hem foto’s van Natalee laten zien. Hij was heel angstig en onsamenhangend. Was het waar? Of zat het in zijn hoofd?”
De dag voor zijn aanhouding sprak ze hem opnieuw. „Ik zei: Joran, je wordt internationaal gezocht. Er is een meisje dood. Waar ben je?” Hij was op weg naar Chili. „Hij klonk angstig. ’Een meisje dood?’ Toen viel hij even stil en zei: ’Het is toch niet Stephany? Nee, niet Stephany!’ Ik zei dat hij zich moest aangeven.”

LOL, I should have translated.
Call 1; A few days before the death of Stephany in Lima, he called home. He sounded strange and hurried, says Anita. He said he was being followed. Together him and a girl were stopped and robbed. Two men showed him pictures of Natalee. He was very afraid and confused.
Was it true? Or was it only in his head?

Call2: The day before his arrest, she spoke to him again. I said: Joran, you are being searched international. A girl is dead. Where are you? He was on his way to Chile. He sounded afraid. A girl dead?. Then he remained quiet for a bit and said:It is not Stephany? No, not Stephany! I told him to turn himself in.

That is my translation, not robotic. Hope it helps.

Also in the interview Anita states that she wants to start a foundation to help Joran but also the other inmates in prison. Did not see that mentioned in American excerpts.