Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

[Kat]

In picture #5 I would love to know what that brown bottle is (has an arrow pointing to it).

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Logical question. It's one that is often asked of conspiracy theorists like myself. Unlike many who are intrigued by conspiracies, I don't always feel comfortable speculating about exactly who was behind them. Especially in a case like this, when it appears the most logical suspects (who might have a motive to frame Joran) don't appear to have the clout to do so. In any event, the murder in Peru would be connected to the Natalee Holloway case, of course.

I can only analyze the information. For me, that information has been inconsistent from the very beginning (essential evidence from the crime scene constantly changing, even the most basic facts like murder weapon, mode of death, position of body and clothing), all the "coincidences," etc.

I realize that I'm goiing against the grain here, but I'm used to that. I think this is all just a little too cut and dry- if someone wanted to make Joran look guilty, then the camera outside his door, the body found in a room registered in his name, the five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance, certainly seem to make for an airtight case, don't they?

Whatever you believe, Joran's retraction of his confession was entirely predictable. It also ensures that this case will just get more interesting.

BBM ~ to us maybe but not to the Peruvian police. They surely have all the consistent information in their file.

Our information is coming from many sources, the telephone game so-to-speak and some info may be right and some info may be wrong. We are not privy to the investigation file that contains the facts of the case. I doubt what's in THAT file has changed - only grown as they've added new found evidence pointing directly toward Joran's guilt. This is one case that even I (still waiting to know/know it was indeed KC who killed Caylee) think is a no brainer as to who done it.

 

[marikesh]

When he left TAC after the murder the vid shows he had not changed his hair colour?

NO? It appeared to me when he was caught in the hallway light, there was a lighter colour around the edges (where the light hit) and his hair seemd shorter??

 

[Kamille]

Very curious why Anita did not want to talk about the first phone call with Joran this time. She did in her earlier interview.The one where he told her that he and a girl had been stopped and robbed in the car by two men, who were shoving pictures of Natalee in his face.
He used that tale as part of the story , he told Chilean LE. We all were wondering when that phone call occurred. Prior or after Stephany's brutal murder.

Yes the phone conversations seem to be changing and morphing a little from the first run through in the press.

I liked the part about where AVDS told JVDS that a girl had been murdered and he said to her "they didn't hurt her did they?" Ummm....she was MURDERED so I guess she was hurt. :waitasec:

MOO

 

[mck16]

In picture #5 I would love to know what that brown bottle is (has an arrow pointing to it).

Wasn't there a list of items found in the room that was reported early on? I was thinking maybe some kind of energy drink or maybe beer since it was displayed with the coffee cups? But really can't figure it out by looking at the pic.

 

[Patty G]

Just on Dutch TV: an exclusive interview with Anita van der Sloot. They talked about the recent developments and ofcourse about Natalee Holloway.

The interview started with Anita who talked about the first days of Natalees disappearance. Anita was in Holland when she learned there was a girl missing on Aruba and that her son Joran was the last person seen with her. She boarded the plane back to Aruba with mixed feelings. Back on the island Joran told her the story about how he dropped Natalee of at the hotel. Joran told her that Natalee probably would show up soon. When Anita saw the first posters of Natalee she thought that she had run away.

There was tension in the house. Brothers didn't understand why Joran lied and sneaked out of the house. His father told Joran that he could get arrested and that he needed to tell the truth. First they believed the story about Natalee getting dropped of at the hotel. When that story changed to the one where he left her at the beach Anita was shocked. She had doubts and thought that there may have been an accident and that Joran was scared to tell the truth.

Paul and Anita both tried to contact Natalees parents. It was very difficult to reach Beth Holloway because of the media. She could only imagine what Beth was going through. She felt horrible for her. Would have loved to hug her. Both parents (Paul and Anita) said that if Joran or one of his friends had done something they would do anything to get it out of him.

Eventually they talked with Beth. (FOX interview) She thought it was very difficult to be confronted with a mother who lost her child. Media was very agressive. They said that Paul was involved and that they where protecting Joran. They literally said that they would destroy the v/d Sloot family.

She then talks about Paul. They alwayss supported each other. Cries when she talks about Paul. It's only been 4 months since he passed away. She said that if Paul suspected Joran being involved in the disappearance of Natalee he would have taken him to the police.

She says that if you tell so many lies no one believes you. She thinks he should have worked with police and if he had known something he should have said so. If he was involved he needs to be punished for that. He has done so many stupid things according to Anita. But the Joran she knows would never murder or rape someone. She does not know the Joran who is portrayed by the media as a killer or rapist. But she knows the Joran who gambles, steals money and lies.

The death of Paulus had a huge impact on Joran. He always gave Joran advice. Joran was very sad when he came to Holland. He wouldn't leave his fathers coffin. He talked to him and sat next to him. He promised him things. Became very depressed. According to Anita he needs help. He's sick in his head. He should not only be treated for his gamble addiction but also for his personality disorder.

After Pauls death he came to Aruba and stayed 2,5 month. Helped Anita around the house. Painted the house, worked in the garden. Anita offered him psychological help. He had a couple of conversations on Aruba. Anita had contact with a Dutch institution. She became very angry when she found out he left to Peru. She doesn't know how he got the money. It was not from her. He left her a note that said that he was going to Peru to play poker. He was being followed on Aruba and that he could not stand to see the sadness in Anita's eyes. He would call her.

She doesn't want to say what they said in the first telephone call. But it was clear that she was done with Joran. She says that if you are a mom you always have that little bit of hope that everything will be allright. She says that maybe she is fooling herself. But if you dont have that hope it's very hard.

After she learned of Stephanys dead she had a telephone conversation with Joran. He said that he was on his way to Chile and that he feared for his life because he was being followed by people with posters of Natalee Holloway. He said that he was on his way to the embassy. Anita then said that there was a girl murdered and that he needed to contact the police or embassy. Joran said: what girl? Anita couldn't remember her whole name but only Flores. Joran became very quiet and started to cry. He said what happened? They didn't hurt her did they? Anita believed Joran at that moment.

Anita thinks its terrible for the parents of Stephany. She also lost a child although it was his own fault. She thinks that if he's guilty of killing Stephany he should be punished. She won't visit him in his cell because she has no reason to do so.


Her biggest fear is that he's gonna get killed. She can imagine people saying something like 'he deserves it to be there under those circumstances'. She cant blame those people. She even thinks it herself sometimes. The last things she will do for him are pay for a lawyer, give him some clothes, make sure he has a mattress and that he can wash himself.

She hopes Joran will get a fair trial. She finds it bizarre that this happened exactly 5 years after Natalee disappeared. She believes in karma. She often tought that he had a bad karma and that he attracts bad things because of that.

She hopes he feels what he has done to all the familys involved. Not only Natalee and Stephanys family but also his own.

'---------------------------

I'm sorry for the very very bad translation. I know that there are many faults but please forgive me as I'm really busy.

Is there a link to this information.

 

[Kat]

I know on the front page of the pictures (article with those pics) states that Stephany was laying in a different position than we had previously heard, but I'm taking that as the interpretation of the author of that article as to her body position.

In picture #8, I see that her knees are drawn up, in fact IMHO you can see the back of her left thigh in that pic. (For those easily disturbed, warning).

To me that would be how the fetal postion came about as a description earlier. JMHO could change.

 

[Sanny]

Florida has the Sunshine Law under which a lot of evidence comes to light, however crime scene photos usually are reserved for trial so as not to taint the potential jury pool. MOO

I get what you are saying Panthera, but in this case Peru doesn't have a Jury Pool.....just a 3 Panel Judge. This afterwhich the investigating Judge which Joran faced yesterday......will make take his investigating evidence to that same panel.

 

[Patty G]

I know on the front page of the pictures (article with those pics) states that Stephany was laying in a different position than we had previously heard, but I'm taking that as the interpretation of the author of that article as to her body position.

In picture #8, I see that her knees are drawn up, in fact IMHO you can see the back of her left thigh in that pic. (For those easily disturbed, warning).

To me that would be how the fetal postion came about as a description earlier. JMHO could change.

Here is the police diagram (attached) of how Stephany was positioned.

 

[mck16]

NO? It appeared to me when he was caught in the hallway light, there was a lighter colour around the edges (where the light hit) and his hair seemd shorter??

I don't think there was a razor reported in his possession and his hair was buzzed. I really don't think he spent much time in that room after he killed SF. He changed clothes, pulled the coffee charade, packed and got the heck out of dodge in my opinion.

 

[doobiedoo52]

Which picture shows her in the fetal position? I thought they said she was stretched out. And the pictures I have seen she is laying along the wall next to the bed. Will go back and look. So many different accounts.

Another question: if this had happened in the U.S. would they release the crime scene photos? Trying to remember if I have ever seen this before.tia

Photo #8 you can see her legs are curled up at the knees and against the wall.

 

[annalia]

Logical question. It's one that is often asked of conspiracy theorists like myself. Unlike many who are intrigued by conspiracies, I don't always feel comfortable speculating about exactly who was behind them. Especially in a case like this, when it appears the most logical suspects (who might have a motive to frame Joran) don't appear to have the clout to do so. In any event, the murder in Peru would be connected to the Natalee Holloway case, of course.

I can only analyze the information. For me, that information has been inconsistent from the very beginning (essential evidence from the crime scene constantly changing, even the most basic facts like murder weapon, mode of death, position of body and clothing), all the "coincidences," etc.

I realize that I'm goiing against the grain here, but I'm used to that. I think this is all just a little too cut and dry- if someone wanted to make Joran look guilty, then the camera outside his door, the body found in a room registered in his name, the five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance, certainly seem to make for an airtight case, don't they?

Whatever you believe, Joran's retraction of his confession was entirely predictable. It also ensures that this case will just get more interesting.

I don't believe the evidence has been inconsistent at all. I think in the beginning just like in many high profile cases, so many news outlets are scrambling to get information from too many different sources in addition to things being mistranslated and add in some speculating.

I think they have an airtight case because all of the evidence points directly to Joran and no one else. It is easy to say things like framed and conspiracy but there has to be facts to support it. I don't believe he was framed, I think it is just more of his lies. His confession retraction imo was to be expected because that is what he has done for five years now but I don't believe it will work in his favor this time.

 

[mck16]

Photo #8 you can see her legs are curled up at the knees and against the wall.

I went back and looked and I can see what you are saying. I am wondering with the horrific brain trauma if she did not seize and her body draw up. In the picture of her feet it looks like they are drawn up like when you have a cramp in your toes. Especially the right one. jmo

 

[Sanny]

NO? It appeared to me when he was caught in the hallway light, there was a lighter colour around the edges (where the light hit) and his hair seemd shorter??

Could my eyes be playing tricks on me.......I studied carefully the complete video beginning when he and SF left the casino.......entered the hotel and then into room 309.......him exiting, him returning with cups in hands, him knocking on the door (pretending) then him leaving to get the clerk so he
could enter room with cups in hand, then him exiting once again with back pack and his hair never changed color nor did he have a buzz cut.

It just wasn't there. His hair was the same as it was prior to his arrest when he then showed up with his red/orange hair dye job and a buzz cut.

Incidentally it resembled so much like Scott Peterson's doo....expect for the gough tee .........How did he honestly expect to not stand out in a crowd?

Are the Peruvians tall people.......JVDS reported to be at least 6 ft 5.

 

[FLNY]

Here is the police diagram (attached) of how Stephany was positioned.

I don't believe that is an actual police diagram, since the heading states "Representation based on police documents". The marked entrance is in the wrong place on this diagram.

 

[panthera]

I get what you are saying Panthera, but in this case Peru doesn't have a Jury Pool.....just a 3 Panel Judge. This afterwhich the investigating Judge which Joran faced yesterday......will make take his investigating evidence to that same panel.

Exactly and this was my explanation why the crime scene photos were released as there is no jury pool. MOO

 

[Patty G]

JVM just stated on Prime News that "while they were playing online poker when a instant message popped up on the Natalie Holloway case, etc." :waitasec:

 

[Patty G]

I don't believe that is an actual police diagram, since the heading states "Representation based on police documents". The marked entrance is in the wrong place on this diagram.

This is what Jean C brought forward one night weeks ago on Nancy's show.

Isn't the entrance at the lower left hand corner of the photo where the arrow is pointing, or am I reading the diagram incorrectly?

 

[justthinkin]

This was NOT as one-sided as Joran claims - there was definately a
fight-struggle lasting more than just several minutes. The bruising on her
hands and the room dissarray show that. Her knees drawn up in a fetal
position show the end. This does not look haphazard to me but methodical at the end - this guy knew exactly what he was doing, trying to kill her.

Not necessarily. She could have been unconscious or near unconsciousness when he stomped or hit her on her head, cracking her skull, brusing her face, hands, body, breaking one of her ankles. Still her body would've drawn up into itself as it's only means of protection---the fetal position. This would also explain why no one heard her scream. I think as soon as Joran elbowed her in the nose, he began violently beating her, and her only hope was that she survive the attack which we know she didn't. The rest is just IMHO.

 

[panthera]

I went back and looked and I can see what you are saying. I am wondering with the horrific brain trauma if she did not seize and her body draw up. In the picture of her feet it looks like they are drawn up like when you have a cramp in your toes. Especially the right one. jmo

I noticed that also, and it seems like a possible explanation, and more than just stiffening from rigor mortis.