Phone Calls and Phone Records

[BigCityAccountant]

I doubt he would fudge the times too. It's nice to see in writing that someone did listen to and record this message. Am I the only one surprised that they didn't play it in the trial?

If this is correct, she said she "hoped to do so in the next few minutes" in regards to finding it. To me... that is not confirmation that she did indeed find it in a few minutes. Unless she said in the message, oh nevermind, just found it LOL (come to think of it... this is probably why they didn't play it in the trial)

By the way... I think I am past thinking that Zipperer could have done anything to TH, I'm thinking he would have been too drunk :giggle: But I am still not convinced about who came first.... the chicken or the egg ;-)

I'm not--the possibility that he was drunk and the wife could have been possibly drunk as well, leads me to believe they may not have been thinking with a clear head that day. People do strange and funny things when they are drunk and not thinking clearly.

 

[Sarah]

View attachment 91361

Thanks for posting that Missy.
I've been wondering for a while whether anyone actually listened to that message or if we just had Zipperer's word for what was said.

This whole DST thing with the phone records though (I remember tying my brain in knots with that in the early days of looking at the phone calls LOL)
If we have her saying in her own words that she was calling at around 2:15pm and that matches with the time on her phone records, then surely that means that the cell phone records are NOT an hour out :thinking:

@BCA - well done for keeping at it with the cell tower stuff.
I have to admit to conceding defeat with it over the last couple of weeks, but don't be surprised if I find myself drawn back in again!!!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

We have to do the time change thing here and I hate it.

So, in the fall the clock "falls back" 1 hour. So that would mean if you did not change your clock the actual time and your clock would read as follows:

Actual/Clock
12:00 am/1:00 am
1:00 am/2:00 am
2:00 am/3:00 am
3:00 am/4:00 am
4:00 am/5:00 am
5:00 am/6:00 am
6:00 am/7:00 am
7:00 am/8:00 am
8:00 am/9:00 am
9:00 am/10:00 am
10:00 am/11:00 am
11:00 am/12:00 am

PM would follow in suit. So, if TH's phone bill did not adjust for DST and the call shows 2:24 pm, then the actual time was 1:24 pm. Likewise, if TH's phone bill showed 4:35 pm the actual time would be 3:35 pm. So, IF the bus driver and the propane guy really saw TH at SA's, then it was around the same time the 4:35 pm call came in.

By the way Missy--the spreadsheet on stevenavery.org is a printout from a database, the hubby being a programmer uses them all the time. The spreadsheet referred to in testimony would be the document KK prepared.

Also, I have to agree with Missy--GZ & JZ didn't have a clue what time TH got there--they may have had one too many cocktails by then to know what the true time was.

So, I was checking on another topic today when I came across this and thought I should post because it falls in with the DST discussion.

Blaine Dassey statement 11/13/05.

Blaine advised the Special Agents that sometime during the week of 10/31/2005 there was a message on the Dassey answering machine. Blaine said the message was a female's voice saying she was coming out to take a picture of the van Barb was selling. Blaine said the person leaving the message left her name and who she worked for. The caller also said she would be coming to Dassey's residence at approximately 1:00 or 2:00 on Monday (10/31/2005) to take the pictures. The caller left a call back number to reschedule if necessary. Blaine stated he thought this message would still be on their answering machine.

So it is very possible TH was at the Avery residences at 2:00 pm or prior. Assuming you can rely on Blaine's statement.

 

[missy1974]

Either Blaine is mistaken, or there was another message left.

TH's message on Barb's machine:

"Hello. This is Teresa with Auto Trader Magazine. I'm the photographer, and just giving you a call to let you know that I could come out there today, um, in the afternoon. It would -- will probably be around two o'clock or even longer, but, um, if you could please give me a call back and let me know if that will work for you, because I don't have your address or anything, so I can't stop by without getting a call back from you. And my cell phone is 737-4731. Again, it's Teresa, 920-737-4731. Thank you."

"Monday, 12:25 a.m."​

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Jury-Trial-Transcript-combined.pdf#page=1903 (this is from the full transcript, I'm finding it's the easiest way to "search" the transcripts ;-) )

**I'm assuming the time given was from the answering machine (which was wrong)


You know... I just noticed something... it says "I don't have your address or anything"

uhmm the sheet that Dawn says she wrote and faxed to her has the address on it. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...nd-362-Auto-Trader-Appt-and-Phone-Records.pdf So did TH call Barb's before getting that faxed to her and if she did.... who gave her the phone number? Angela? the other AutoTrader employee that said that TH called while Dawn was on lunch break (which there is no record of that btw on TH's records)

I do remember somewhere that SA said he thought he called AutoTrader back later that morning ... found it ...


http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...1/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov09.pdf Nov 9th SA interview

Is it possible he called back while Dawn was on her lunch.... Angela answers, calls TH, TH says sure I can do it..... give me the phone number and I will call, and have Dawn fax me the info.


It still doesn't answer who confirmed it. Or wait... maybe Dawn left the number on her voicemail.... TH calls Barb's, then calls AutoTrader ... oh wait, no call to AutoTrader.... so before she calls AutoTrader, Angela calls her because SA called AutoTrader back to check.... TH says yep, I just tried calling there, but no answer, so have Dawn fax me the info. She see's the address after making the call, realizes it's Avery Road (the Avery brothers), and isn't concerned that no one will be home because it's a business and they are open and she has been there in the past around the same time.


***** it's because of these small inconsistencies that I have trouble believing everything from AutoTrader. And it's not because they are lying but because they just are not remembering the events of the day. They spend the majority of their time in a day on the phone I imagine, remembering who called who and in what order and what exactly for is probably "lost" sometimes, especially when you think it's just another day at work. And because they weren't contacted until 3 days later.... and under the circumstances, things may have not been remembered correctly. After reading this again, I realize, she made that call before the sheet was faxed to her. I would love to know when that sheet was faxed to her and there is no dates/times on it.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Either Blaine is mistaken, or there was another message left.

TH's message on Barb's machine:

"Hello. This is Teresa with Auto Trader Magazine. I'm the photographer, and just giving you a call to let you know that I could come out there today, um, in the afternoon. It would -- will probably be around two o'clock or even longer, but, um, if you could please give me a call back and let me know if that will work for you, because I don't have your address or anything, so I can't stop by without getting a call back from you. And my cell phone is 737-4731. Again, it's Teresa, 920-737-4731. Thank you."

"Monday, 12:25 a.m."​

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Jury-Trial-Transcript-combined.pdf#page=1903 (this is from the full transcript, I'm finding it's the easiest way to "search" the transcripts ;-) )

**I'm assuming the time given was from the answering machine (which was wrong)


You know... I just noticed something... it says "I don't have your address or anything"

uhmm the sheet that Dawn says she wrote and faxed to her has the address on it. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...nd-362-Auto-Trader-Appt-and-Phone-Records.pdf So did TH call Barb's before getting that faxed to her and if she did.... who gave her the phone number? Angela? the other AutoTrader employee that said that TH called while Dawn was on lunch break (which there is no record of that btw on TH's records)

I do remember somewhere that SA said he thought he called AutoTrader back later that morning ... found it ...

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...1/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov09.pdf Nov 9th SA interview

Is it possible he called back while Dawn was on her lunch.... Angela answers, calls TH, TH says sure I can do it..... give me the phone number and I will call, and have Dawn fax me the info.


It still doesn't answer who confirmed it. Or wait... maybe Dawn left the number on her voicemail.... TH calls Barb's, then calls AutoTrader ... oh wait, no call to AutoTrader.... so before she calls AutoTrader, Angela calls her because SA called AutoTrader back to check.... TH says yep, I just tried calling there, but no answer, so have Dawn fax me the info. She see's the address after making the call, realizes it's Avery Road (the Avery brothers), and isn't concerned that no one will be home because it's a business and they are open and she has been there in the past around the same time.


***** it's because of these small inconsistencies that I have trouble believing everything from AutoTrader. And it's not because they are lying but because they just are not remembering the events of the day. They spend the majority of their time in a day on the phone I imagine, remembering who called who and in what order and what exactly for is probably "lost" sometimes, especially when you think it's just another day at work. And because they weren't contacted until 3 days later.... and under the circumstances, things may have not been remembered correctly. After reading this again, I realize, she made that call before the sheet was faxed to her. I would love to know when that sheet was faxed to her and there is no dates/times on it.

BINGO! You just proved it! There is no call at 12:25 pm on TH's phone records! However, there is a call at 11:25 am!

Here phone records have to be 1 hour behind or Janda's never set their recorder back the hour! LOL...we just set our clocks ahead last month and my phone recorder still says the wrong time!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

So, I am surmising that TH's phone records are only incoming calls--not outgoing.

 

[missy1974]

The call to Barb's was at 11:43:30 AM .... so it's off by more than an hour, and Barb's machine would have also been wrong by the AM/PM. I don't think they were off by an hour, but I don't know LOL I hope KZ files something.... soon LOL

 

[missy1974]

So, I am surmising that TH's phone records are only incoming calls--not outgoing.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Exhibit-361-Halbach-Cingular-Report.pdf

They are both.... the one's with numbers under the "dialed #" are the outgoing. The one's that are blank under the "dialed #" are incoming.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

The call to Barb's was at 11:43:30 AM .... so it's off by more than an hour, and Barb's machine would have also been wrong by the AM/PM. I don't think they were off by an hour, but I don't know LOL I hope KZ files something.... soon LOL

NO, NO NO NO NO

The 11:25pm call was when TH called BJ and left the message--the 11:43pm call is an incoming call from BJ's when they gave her the address.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Exhibit-361-Halbach-Cingular-Report.pdf

They are both.... the one's with numbers under the "dialed #" are the outgoing. The one's that are blank under the "dialed #" are incoming.

It's reversed...outgoing have no numbers--incoming do!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

So, if that is the case, Schmitz called TH--now whether or not TH called him before that is another story.

 

[missy1974]

It's reversed...outgoing have no numbers--incoming do!

I will let you have some coffee..... and think about this LOL

the one's that she called, have the numbers. Her voicemail doesn't call her ;-)

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I will let you have some coffee..... and think about this LOL

the one's that she called, have the numbers. Her voicemail doesn't call her ;-)

Ok, conceding--your right it was late last night, and no I didn't have cocktail hour either. LOL

But, didn't SA call TH at 11:43 pm????

 

[zerbert]

BCA, I'm not sure which call log you're working off of, but this one has info from a lot of different logs compiled and I find it really helpful.
https://www.docdroid.net/FwkDVo2/th-calls.pdf.html

 

[BigCityAccountant]

BCA, I'm not sure which call log you're working off of, but this one has info from a lot of different logs compiled and I find it really helpful.
https://www.docdroid.net/FwkDVo2/th-calls.pdf.html

I've been using this one--but I'm sleep deprived until April 15th...LOL

 

[MysticJynx]

It's reversed...outgoing have no numbers--incoming do!

I think the outgoing numbers are the ones that don't use the area code 920. The incoming calls that are in the same network as TH are showing their numbers with the area code. all the other blank ones were also incoming but were not on the same network. Cingular wirelless as she was.

 

[MysticJynx]

This is just something I wrote up in theory. My own thoughts about the cell towers.

21112 Teresa is at home on Monday Oct 31 2005.
She Calls her first appointment, the rescheduled shoot from Sat Oct 29, 2005. She tells SS she was on her way to his place to take those pictures.Teresa lives at W3671 County road b. Hilbert, WI to drive to n253 co rd a, kiel wi. On Google maps it takes between 25 and 35 minutes approx. So what time did TH call to Tell SS she was on her way? It was at 12:51pm. we will go with the lighter of the minutes 25. She would have arrived at SS's about 1:15 or so. He claims she was there for 10 to
15 minutes. Again going with the lighter of the two, Her leave time would have been about
1:25 or so.

21103 Tower ping 1:52pm
Between arriving anywhere else at 1:52 she receives a phone call that left a message. Her
pinging tower was some where headed from SS's to the Manitowoc area.

21923 Tower pinging between 2:12 and 2:24
Now it looks as if she went to Zipperers house first. If we look at google maps, we get
the estimated times of 45 to 55 mins. So from 1:25 and 45 mins later she would have been
Near the Zipperers residence at around 2:10. At 2:12pm she makes a call to the zipperers
residence to tell them she cannot find the place and hoped to do so shortly. Because they did not answer could she have moved on to her next appointment the Avery's.

A call to her VM is made, possibly to check the 1:52 VM left.

2:24 SA *67 Called TH possibly to see where she was at? and pulls into the drive. Call lasted only 8 seconds. So lets say she is there at 2:25 and does her thing gets In her car. he walks into the house and grabs his phone and accidentally dials the last number and hangs up right away. Phone don't even connect to her phone, as
that was the last call he made. This is the 2:35 call not on her bill.

21921 tower pinging
2:27 she receives a 5 minute call. Was this while she was taking pictures of the Van? The tower pinging now Possibly in the Avery Yard.

21101 Tower pinging
2:41 she receives the Unknown call that left a 60 second message. that the weird feature
of CFNA was used. If she left the Avery yard and was headed back to the Zipperer's. Google
shows between about 15 and 20 minutes. If she left the Avery lot at about 2:35 based on his
possible, oops dial of picking up his phone after she left. Putting her back at the Zipperer's about
2:50pm......

JZ testified first to her being there around 3pm. Even though she was not sure.

I still think she was at GZ's place after she was at the Avery Yard.

There is a lot of confusion with this appointment too. AS her boss at Auto T. said the telemarketers made that appointment that afternoon. However the lead sheet DP printed out that morning at 7am only had the GZ appointment on it. So when did the telemarkers make that appointment. Was GZ drunk when that happened. When did TH set up that appointment. Why was the call at the Zips not recorded for later review as they did with the Janda Message. Caller ID state that call was at 2:12pm so most likely the caller ID's updated with the company's systems that print out the bills. Another thing I noticed look at the package given to JZ with the Auto T magazine. The date is for September 15-21 2005. Why give such an old magazine. Did they check to see if all the magazines given were the same. Did she keep these little Auto T packets in her car. Would she carry more than the number of appointments she had in case of a hustle shot?

Basically my thoughts are SA was not the last place TH was that day as far as her appointments go. In other words Not the last person to see her alive. JMO.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I think the outgoing numbers are the ones that don't use the area code 920. The incoming calls that are in the same network as TH are showing their numbers with the area code. all the other blank ones were also incoming but were not on the same network. Cingular wirelless as she was.

No, the 920 is the area code for the entire Green Bay Area. 608 for Madison area and 414 for Milwaukee area. The ones that don't have the 920 area code are direct dialed because you didn't need to dial the 1-920--xxxx only the number to connect.

 

[MysticJynx]

No, the 920 is the area code for the entire Green Bay Area. 608 for Madison area and 414 for Milwaukee area. The ones that don't have the 920 area code are direct dialed because you didn't need to dial the 1-920--xxxx only the number to connect.

Right she didn't dial outside of her area code that day at all. And the only ones on her network were also in her area showing the 920 area code that she was also in. The blank ones could be from anywhere as they were not on her network. This is how I understood it in the testimony from the cellphone person. I will look for it.


ETA
I am wrong the testimony says any blank ones are incoming and that they dont show any incoming. But what im confused about is why some show the area code and some don't if they are all outgoing?

 

[missy1974]

I had wondered about the area codes myself.... the only thing that I can think of is, where she was calling at the time, she was considered "local" and didn't have to dial the area code? If she was "out of the area" she had to dial area code?

The province I live in, in the past few years, has transitioned into dialing the area code (finally needed 2 area codes ... we are small haha), regardless if local or not. We went through a very long transition time too, where you could dial it or not and still get through.


ETA: btw ... Hi Mystic :wave: