GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #114

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  • #921
I agree! Ever since witnessing BK sitting defiantly in the courtroom while he admitted to the murders, a Kevin Spacey line from Se7en keeps popping into my thoughts: "I'm setting the example. What I've done is going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever."

MOO is that BK will never, ever tell the why and how of his murderous rage. If he did, no more mystery and interest about him is swept under the rug...forever.
I think he'll be talking soon but agreed that he won't be telling the truth. He'll dripfeed nonsense to his various letter-writers, reporters and avid fans who are trying to establish a relationship and who'll put some money on his account, quid pro quo

He'll need extra funds for commissary
His parents are elderly and not at all wealthy. Jail emails and video calls soon rack up expensive bills too. Same goes for ordering TV and games on his tablet. Also books. You need a lot of material when you're locked-up 23 x7 and profit margins on all of these prison services are sky-high.

Also, MSM, a fortnight ago ' he was never off the phone to his mother while he was in jail. ' Expensive.
 
  • #922
Thanks for posting this about the gender not being specified in this other case, and height description of the intruder who was attacking her over her bed in the dark being estimated by the woman in her eye witness testimony as between 5' 3" and 5' 5".

Perhaps the height difference between the intruder in that case and how DM described the intruder she saw walk by her outside her bedroom door the night of the murders BK has plead guilty to as: "...male, 5 feet 10 inches or taller..." was another reason as to why LE didn't pursue BK in their investigation.

The possible difference in height between the two intruders in these two cases with very similar circumstances and within 10 miles of each other locationally within a year of each other, IIRC, based on eye witness testimonies, could be significant.

As well as their own heights and positions (one waking up to see someone leaning over them in bed, and the other standing up as someone walked past them).

JMO

I wonder how publicized that crime was within the WSU community. Perhaps the felon heard about it and decided to be a copycat.

The one thing he's shown repeatedly is that he's not creative. No original thought. Maybe we give him too much dark credit thinking he's a student of Bundy, BTK and the like. Maybe he's nothing but a ordinary current-event copycat.

Regardless, I hope someone's made absolute sure the felon was somewhere other than WA when the earlier crime occurred.

Just how many masked, knife-wielding 3 am invaders are out there?

Scary world.

JMO
 
  • #923
Thanks for posting this about the gender not being specified in this other case, and height description of the intruder who was attacking her over her bed in the dark being estimated by the woman in her eye witness testimony as between 5' 3" and 5' 5".

Perhaps the height difference between the intruder in that case and how DM described the intruder she saw walk by her outside her bedroom door the night of the murders BK has plead guilty to as: "...male, 5 feet 10 inches or taller..." was another reason as to why LE didn't pursue BK in their investigation.

The possible difference in height between the two intruders in these two cases with very similar circumstances and within 10 miles of each other locationally within a year of each other, IIRC, based on eye witness testimonies, could be significant.

As well as their own heights and positions (one waking up to see someone leaning over them in bed, and the other standing up as someone walked past them).

JMO
Or, maybe there is more than one person who breaks in young women's residences and LE was able to determine the 2021 perp wasn't BK.

jmopinion
 
  • #924
I doubt he feels much by way of fear.

I studied he didn't like having blood on his face.

The felon is only about himself.

JMO
You are correct. Psychopaths don't feel fear, empathy, guilt, shame, and remorse due to being born with a shrunken amygdala. Dr. Adrian Raine talks about this in his findings after scanning 1,000+ brains of men in prison to find out if psychopathy was born or made. It's something you are born with or you had to have a significant TBI injury to the brain or a tumor developing on their pre-frontal cortex.
 
  • #925
re the bolded points
He was diagnosed as on the ASD while he was a school kid, many years before the covid pandemic

He was re-evaluated again after his arrest and Prosecution accepted that diagnosis. The Defense used it to try to have the DP removed and failed.

So either they didn't catch the overlapping of symptoms or people don't realize that ASPD can only be given as a diagnosis as early as 16?

"Differential diagnosis, comorbidities and overlaps with other psychiatric disorders are common among adults with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), but clinical assessments often omit screening for personality disorders (PD), which are especially common in individuals with high-functioning ASD where there is less need for support." - Autism spectrum disorder and personality disorders: Comorbidity and differential diagnosis
And then if you scroll down a bit you find this:

"The search found 22 studies carried out on ASD adults without intellectual disability that met the inclusion criteria: 16 evaluated personality profiles or PD in ASD (comorbidity), five compared ASD and PD (differential diagnosis) and one performed both tasks. There were significant differences in the methodological approaches, including the ASD diagnostic instruments and personality measures. Cluster A and cluster C PD are the most frequent co-occurring PD, but overlapping features should be considered. Data on differential diagnosis were only found with cluster A and cluster B PD."
There is a lot of information out there on overlapping and misdiagnosis. Here are some other published studies on this topic.

Autism spectrum disorder and psychopathy: shared cognitive underpinnings or double hit?

Feeling, caring, knowing: different types of empathy deficit in boys with psychopathic tendencies and autism spectrum disorder
 
  • #926
It's something you are born with or you had to have a significant TBI injury to the brain or a tumor developing on their pre-frontal cortex.

Wasn't it reported that BK was in a car accident in childhood?
I remember reading Defence supplied this info.
 
  • #927
About 20 minutes

The sheath, calling card or accident?

 
  • #928
Wasn't it reported that BK was in a car accident in childhood?
I remember reading Defence supplied this info.
I believe that was part of the defense’s strategy against DP?
 
  • #929
So either they didn't catch the overlapping of symptoms or people don't realize that ASPD can only be given as a diagnosis as early as 16?

"Differential diagnosis, comorbidities and overlaps with other psychiatric disorders are common among adults with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), but clinical assessments often omit screening for personality disorders (PD), which are especially common in individuals with high-functioning ASD where there is less need for support." - Autism spectrum disorder and personality disorders: Comorbidity and differential diagnosis
And then if you scroll down a bit you find this:

"The search found 22 studies carried out on ASD adults without intellectual disability that met the inclusion criteria: 16 evaluated personality profiles or PD in ASD (comorbidity), five compared ASD and PD (differential diagnosis) and one performed both tasks. There were significant differences in the methodological approaches, including the ASD diagnostic instruments and personality measures. Cluster A and cluster C PD are the most frequent co-occurring PD, but overlapping features should be considered. Data on differential diagnosis were only found with cluster A and cluster B PD."
There is a lot of information out there on overlapping and misdiagnosis. Here are some other published studies on this topic.

Autism spectrum disorder and psychopathy: shared cognitive underpinnings or double hit?

Feeling, caring, knowing: different types of empathy deficit in boys with psychopathic tendencies and autism spectrum disorder
JMO but my psychiatrist told me that it’s not that they can’t diagnose certain things in childhood, it’s that there isn’t medication for things like bipolar disorder that has been approved for use in kids. And over time “we don’t treat kids for bipolar disorder” became “we don’t diagnose bipolar in kids” especially in the US where the attitude of physicians is “why diagnose it if we can’t throw some meds at it?” (no judgement on meds i’m on meds)
 
  • #930
I've been typing up brief summaries of what's contained in all the MPD reports. If anyone finds this helpful, I'll keep going (meant to do this when they came out but then life happened)

Thank you for this! I started work on this and then got waylaid by several life things. I also made the mistake of handwriting my summaries of each file, and now there are places where I can't read my own handwriting. :)
 
  • #931
I do wonder if he went in there that night with the intent of killing everyone in the house and then returning to the scene the next day to either discover it or survey it before LE were made aware and see if he left any evidence.

Just a thought that occurred because of his educational background, the training he had had, and the idea he wanted to commit the perfect crime.

Which would have worked had there been no survivors to discover the scene in the morning.

I also think the sheath was an accident and something he could have rectified had there not been two surviving housemates. He would have been absolutely exhausted once it was over, and an adrenaline crash is almost disabling so it's believable to me he dropped it accidentally. I worked security for ten years and would always have to take an hour to reboot after a physical confrontation, and after doing CPR. It is tiring. His car was spotted in the vicinity the next morning and I'm convinced he was coming back to double check.

All conjecture here of course, just struck me when I was reading about his research on blood detection methods.
 
  • #932
So either they didn't catch the overlapping of symptoms or people don't realize that ASPD can only be given as a diagnosis as early as 16?

"Differential diagnosis, comorbidities and overlaps with other psychiatric disorders are common among adults with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), but clinical assessments often omit screening for personality disorders (PD), which are especially common in individuals with high-functioning ASD where there is less need for support." - Autism spectrum disorder and personality disorders: Comorbidity and differential diagnosis
And then if you scroll down a bit you find this:

"The search found 22 studies carried out on ASD adults without intellectual disability that met the inclusion criteria: 16 evaluated personality profiles or PD in ASD (comorbidity), five compared ASD and PD (differential diagnosis) and one performed both tasks. There were significant differences in the methodological approaches, including the ASD diagnostic instruments and personality measures. Cluster A and cluster C PD are the most frequent co-occurring PD, but overlapping features should be considered. Data on differential diagnosis were only found with cluster A and cluster B PD."
There is a lot of information out there on overlapping and misdiagnosis. Here are some other published studies on this topic.

Autism spectrum disorder and psychopathy: shared cognitive underpinnings or double hit?

Feeling, caring, knowing: different types of empathy deficit in boys with psychopathic tendencies and autism spectrum disorder

Back on that WS page there might be the Defense motion link. I'm sure I posted it around the same time.
We only have that information to go on. That motion and snippets of it which ended up in msm reports. The motion does include some snippets on childhood background and details.

As a few seasoned DP attorneys has since commented, it's very possible the Defense assessed BK for various comorbidities but as the attys explained, it wasn't in the Def interest to reveal all of what was found. (It was Defense's job to paint him in the best light, not to include for example ' well , yes he also has ASPD and XYZ' )

This has meant there's been heavy and undue emphasis on his level 1 autism across 2 years of reporting.

ETA - This bit from your next WS post is also interesting
'Rachel Lawson Orr, PsyD, ABPP-CN. No where online for her bio states anything outside of Autism/ADHD/Learning Disorders
 
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  • #933
JMO but my psychiatrist told me that it’s not that they can’t diagnose certain things in childhood, it’s that there isn’t medication for things like bipolar disorder that has been approved for use in kids. And over time “we don’t treat kids for bipolar disorder” became “we don’t diagnose bipolar in kids” especially in the US where the attitude of physicians is “why diagnose it if we can’t throw some meds at it?” (no judgement on meds i’m on meds)

<modsnipped - off topic>

I'm mostly prefacing this so anyone coming across, can understand, why I question BK's diagnosis because he was going for his PhD in criminology, same with forensic psychology, where you have to take a few psychology courses including on cluster b where they focus on dark triad of psychopathy/sociopathy, npd so you can better understand the criminal profile of serial offenders. Which means, this is my theory, he learned about psychopathy, what are the odds he then learned about autism more in the psychology classes freshman year, then realized he is a psychopath, then with wide spread info online since 2020 on TikTok about Autism... I truly think he exaggerated just enough during his evaluation with Rachel Lawson Orr, PsyD, ABPP-CN. No where online for her bio states anything outside of Autism/ADHD/Learning Disorders, which means she doesn't have any specialty training under her belt for Cluster B of dark triad like Ramsland or FBI trained John Douglas who help create the BSU and now is called the BAU. Rachel could have missed all the psychopathy subtle signs of glibness being used on her and thought he was just being "nice", "warm", "shy". There are plenty of psychopaths/sociopaths who are "shy" and "nice", Ed Kemper/Co-Ed Killer was one of those guys! Not all people who operate like this are extroverted, most are Ambiverts, which is introverted around strangers or people you don't trust, but extroverted around people you know and trust.
 
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  • #934
I've been typing up brief summaries of what's contained in all the MPD reports. If anyone finds this helpful, I'll keep going (meant to do this when they came out but then life happened)

1 – First responder crime scene report (with graphic details)
2 – First responder crime scene report (with graphic details)
3 – First responder crime scene report + on scene interview with DM + BF, crime scene entry log (with graphic details)
4- First responder report – footprints outside, conversation with Jack + neighbours
5 – XK’s father at scene + convo w/ XK father + sister @ PD
6 – scene security logging who entered/exited
7 – walk-through of scene + death notifications to families (with details)
8 – Investigation re: knife sheath at scene, Walmart staff report man asking to buy ski-mask few weeks prior, interview with witness PR? RR? re: night before murders (some details)
9 – Scene security log, cadaver dog used to try to locate a blood trail
10 – Patrol Officer’s report King Road area night of 11/12 – 11/13, saw individuals heading to 1122, finished patrol 3am (detailed)
11 – MM’s friend JS contacts police. Spent most of night with MM at corner club and grub truck. (detailed)
12 – Search of dumpsters at/near 1122 King. Nothing of evidentiary value
13 – Review of CCTV from 11/12 – 11/13 at Corner Club and Grub Truck (detailed descriptions)
14 – General walkthrough of scene and surrounding area to look for evidence, spoke to neighbour, collected blood and blue powder/rolled $2 bill from 1122 King
15 - Multiple follow up on unrelated tips – shady guy at Women’s Centre, guy with cuts on hands, other very redacted tips possibly related to ex bf JD
16 – More tips – male acquaintance of MM being handsy at Corner Club 11/12-11/13, got kicked out. Tip about another sketchy guy, very redacted
17 – Interview with Sorority president(?) RH – said parties at 1122 King weren’t huge, possible drug use at house
18 – 11/14 Police canvass neighbourhood looking for evidence, many items noted but nothing of evidentiary value
19 – interview with “KN” friend of XK and KG – lots of details about victims and their relationships/friend circle, group dynamics, etc
20 – Interview with “JN” – witness who saw 1122 King Rd front door open on morning of 11/13
21 – Warrants for cell tower dumps near crime scene and records for multiple phone #s
22 – KG father SG and sister AG provide investigators with some of KG’s text messages, grub truck CCTV, photo of camera on nearby residence. PD has trouble getting CCTV footage from neighbour’s camera
23 – Tip from KG sister AG (I’m assuming) showing a post on DM’s Facebook, most details redacted
24 – Review of Grub Truck footage
25 – Follow-up of an “SB’s” movements during time of homicides
26 – Request to uber for info about driver “EG” seemed to be a contact in KG’s phone, driver regularly used locally while not officially “on duty”
27 – Log that electronic devices (laptops and ipad) received as evidence @ MPD
28 – Lots of tech-y stuff trying to retrieve video from neighbour’s CCTV. Eventually succeeded, submitted into evidence (the neighbours were super helpful!)
29 – Receipt of video footage on USB drives into evidence (no details)
30 – Interview with XG, EC, and KG friend “P” – partied earlier in day with 4 victims, saw KG and MM at Grub Truck later. KG and MM seemed intoxicated but not to point of stumbling/slurring
31 – transporting victim’s cell phones between police departments
32 – List of items of evidence collected at autopsies (swabs, hairs, prints, etc) Summary of victim’s wounds (GRAPHIC)
33 – University of Idaho CCTV footage collected for review
34 – Two cigarette butts put into evidence
35 – Rumours of Mexican drug dealer selling drugs to uni frats + sororities – nothing to substantiate this rumour on follow-up
36 – documents from U of I Office of Civil Rights and Investigations submitted to FBI (no details)
37 - documents from U of I OCRI received by FBI, downloaded and returned to MPD (no details)
38 – unspecified evidence transported to ISP Forensic Services
39 – Warrant to EBAY for sales of Kabar Knives (no sales) and Sheaths (some sales) Request for warrant for info on buyers of sheaths
40 – Super tech-y trying to get information from router @ 1122 King Rd night of murders to see what devices connected – maybe other stuff too my brain hurts
41 – JD voluntarily gives his phone to ISP for extraction
42 – Summaries of initial interviews with roommate DM, and friends that came to the house that morning – HJ, JM, LB (very detailed, very sad…)
43 – Warrants returned for ebay buyers who purchased KaBar sheaths
44 – Snapchat warrant granted and returned for accounts of victims, surviving roomates, and JD
45 – Cell tower dump data received (no details)
46 – warrant for cell tower dumps in an expanded radius (original was 0.5 miles, now want 2 mile)
47 – Surviving roommates and friends consent to cell phone extractions
48 – Center stacks of MM and EC’s vehicles removed and booked into evidence
49 – warrant for icloud data for KG and other redacted accounts
50 - three cell phones, 1 hard drive submitted into evidence (no details)

edit: Please let me know if you have any questions about initials, abbreviations, etc.
Thank you for this list.
 
  • #935
Really good read about Kohberger’s efforts to thwart investigators:

“Forensic analysis revealed that Kohberger’s phone had only four periods of total inactivity, dating back to June 2022. One of those silent moments occurred on the night of the murders.

He didn’t just lose signal or run out of battery,” Jared explained. “This was an actual button press, power off, on purpose, and then a power back two hours later. And in the middle of that, four people were killed.”

To determine exactly what happened during that two-hour window on the night of the murders, the Cellebrite team re-created the digital environment and studied call logs.

“Turning off your phone isn’t enough,” Heather said. “You have to disable Wi-Fi, disable cellular, then power down. And that’s what he did.”

 
  • #936
It has always been, and likely forever will be, a mystery as to how Kohberger came to choose that house, and those victims.

The experts who analyzed his phone however, did find a tantalizing clue.

“Madison Mogen and Xana Kernodle worked at local restaurant The Mad Greek as servers before Kohberger murdered them.

After the killings, a fellow employee said they remembered Kohberger visiting it twice and eating vegan pizza.

So one WiFi log caught Heather’s attention when she was searching his digital footprint: the network name for The Mad Greek. Though nothing concrete tied him to the location at the time of the murders, the WiFi log suggested he had been there before, possibly more than once.

“There it was,” Heather confirmed. “His device had passively logged that network.”
 
  • #937
Great link, Mass Guy

a bit more

“What we learned is, he prepared,” Heather Barnhart, Senior Director of Forensic Research at Cellebrite, told The Independent.
' Now, as more details began to trickle out through previously sealed police reports and court documents, the team is revealing to The Independent what they learned about the killer through his digital footprint.
The Cellebrite team had uncovered files scrubbed from devices, searches routed through VPNs, and deep downloads about serial killers — all of which, they say, painted a chilling picture of obsession and planning.
“He didn’t just Google these cases,” Heather said. “He downloaded full PDFs of case files. Not once, but repeatedly. He was downloading detailed reports on serial killers,” including Danny Rolling, who also murdered college students using a similar knife.
“This wasn’t casual browsing. This was meticulous research,” she added.

( A lot of Websleuthers here mentioned Danny Rolling )

another WS-er can paste the bit about his ' incessant' attempts to contact Mother and family
It's probably the most informative article we've seen in a fortnight
 
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  • #938
It has always been, and likely forever will be, a mystery as to how Kohberger came to choose that house, and those victims.

The experts who analyzed his phone however, did find a tantalizing clue.

“Madison Mogen and Xana Kernodle worked at local restaurant The Mad Greek as servers before Kohberger murdered them.

After the killings, a fellow employee said they remembered Kohberger visiting it twice and eating vegan pizza.

So one WiFi log caught Heather’s attention when she was searching his digital footprint: the network name for The Mad Greek. Though nothing concrete tied him to the location at the time of the murders, the WiFi log suggested he had been there before, possibly more than once.

“There it was,” Heather confirmed. “His device had passively logged that network.”

But we knew that all along. It was a foregone conclusion.

Thanks for finding confirmation.

JMO
 
  • #939
“He downloaded full PDFs of case files. Not once, but repeatedly. He was downloading detailed reports on serial killers,” including Danny Rolling, who also murdered college students using a similar knife.
“This wasn’t casual browsing. This was meticulous research,” she added.

IMO
No surprise here with his OCD.

And I mean
occurrence of recurrent, intrusive thoughts/obsessions.

JMO
 
  • #940
  • "On Oct. 10, 2021, a female college student at Washington State University reported that a man in a ski mask and armed with a knife broke into her home and then entered her bedroom
  • That man fled the home after the female student, who he likely believed to be sleeping, forcefully kicked him in the stomach as he stood over her bed
  • The attack happened at 3:30 a.m. in an off-campus home were four sorority girls lived, details similar to the Moscow murders which would occur a little over one year later
The incident happened on Oct. 10, 2021 — eight months before Kohberger moved to Washington and enrolled at Washington State University, but on the same weekend that the school's Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology hosted an event for prospective and incoming students, according to documents released by the Pullman Police Department and obtained by PEOPLE.
....

The investigation of Kohberger was brief, however, and shut down nine days later when the Graduate Program Coordinator informed Sgt. Engle that there was no record of the future criminology student attending any campus events that weekend.

Police did not appear to look into the possibility of Kohberger going on a non-sanctioned visit that weekend, which would have been while he was enrolled at DeSales University in Pennsylvania."
Practicing???
 
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