GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #114

[iamshadow21]

Off the top of my head, stemming from a lot of reading, psychopaths are experts at manipulating people, and a large part of manipulating people is convincing them that you are what they want you to be.

Which would likely mean having a different persona for each one.

JMO.

Exactly.

As someone with a dissociative disorder, it's nothing like.

Someone like BK is trying out different approaches to find the right one to manipulate a person in that situation. Like trying a bunch of keys in a lock, but it's calculated by a singular mind, with intent to deceive and control.

Someone with a dissociative disorder might be responding to a situation or a trigger, but it's not with that kind of malicious intent. It's a self protective response, often involuntary, which often involves discontinuity of memory. A lot of guessing the best reaction, a lot of winging it, a lot of hoping that you aren't messing up your life or anyone else's. It's 90% 'who is this vaguely familiar person talking to me in the supermarket?', 'i have no memory of this place', 'i have no memory of this thing in my house I must have bought', and 'i have no memory of this thing you said I did that doesn't sound like something I'd do but I have no choice but to accept your word that I did'. The other 10% is trying to understand how people who don't dissociate experience life in a continuous line without holes you could drive a bus through.

MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

Has anybody on WS tracked down an ISP document link yet? I don't intend to trawl through all of them as I did with the MPD document dumps but there are already some real nuggets in the ones that have been shared across podcasters and on reporters' channels. ( The latter said that LE did hundreds of hours of interviews with WSU staff and students)

An example - Sept - Oct WSU student told LE that somebody broke in her room and took underwear and perfume.

 

[Kemug]

I wonder what BK and his mother talk about for hours and hours? Perhaps she reads to him? Poor lady.

 

[AngTxGal]

Has anybody on WS tracked down an ISP document link yet? I don't intend to trawl through all of them as I did with the MPD document dumps but there are already some real nuggets in the ones that have been shared across podcasters and on reporters' channels. ( The latter said that LE did hundreds of hours of interviews with WSU staff and students)

An example - Sept - Oct WSU student told LE that somebody broke in her room and took underwear and perfume.


View attachment 608792

The problem with these issues on college campuses…
- having room, car, apartment, broken into
- having personal belongings stolen from self, car, room, apartment
- being a victim of stalking on campus
- being a victim of sexual assault, from groping -> Grape
- being robbed, purse snatch
- being roofied at an on campus event

Is they often are not treated as a crime warranting attention
- often go unreported- Most female students assume nothing will be done.
- ‘handled internally’- Schools don’t want to panic others or ruin reputations.

Common issues aren’t typically committed by a loner incel, who has other issues.

And they didn’t amount to murder, so didn’t get a lot of attention.
And few campuses have acted as if those crimes are signs of larger crimes.

So they continue regularly

IMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Off the top of my head, stemming from a lot of reading, psychopaths are experts at manipulating people, and a large part of manipulating people is convincing them that you are what they want you to be.

Which would likely mean having a different persona for each one.

JMO.

Yes, this. I was just reminded watching the show "Sneaky Pete" that the term "con" is actually shorthand for "confidence scheme".

So if he was/became expert at manipulating people and convincing them he was what they wanted him to be, he was a con artist, who can change hats or personas in the blink of an eye. IMO.

 

[indicolite22]

Dr. Gary Brucato was interviewed (at 31 min in the video). He speculates on BK and Rolling modeling their crimes on Ted Bundy's, with a similar motive (the latter two were necrophiliacs and BK had fantasies about sleeping/incapacitated women). According to GB, ka-bar knife is a weapon of war and BK saw himself as a warrior against the entire female sex. The panel agrees that BK will give an interview in the future, but won't tell the truth (just his version of it).

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[Dotta]

Re manipulating mentioned above

I don't see him this way.

People were creeped by him.
Students complained.
Professors wanted to get rid of him.
He didn't have any friends nor his own social circle.
He was a proverbial loner.

So what kind of manipulation are we talking about?

Manipulative people are usually charming and popular.
With wide social circle.
Surrounded by others
(who are not conscious of being manipulated).

He was alone.

His only meaningful contact is with Mother.
He doesn't need to manipulate her.
She loves him as mothers do.
And worries about him.
And tries to help him as best as she can.

JMO

 

[303gmf]

The people having lengthy conversations with xxx214 were getting something out of it. These are symbiotic relationships, IMHO — codependency. Not unusual with history of addiction. I’m not a professional in this field, so OMO.

Read “Dance of Anger,” by Harriet Lerner, PhD.

I remember when Harriet’s book came out, having a relook, appreciate the memory jog

 

[303gmf]

I wonder what BK and his mother talk about for hours and hours? Perhaps she reads to him? Poor lady.

The time difference for her as well! 5am calls then bedtime?
Hope this poor mother could nap during the day

 

[Inthedetails]

Has anybody on WS tracked down an ISP document link yet? I don't intend to trawl through all of them as I did with the MPD document dumps but there are already some real nuggets in the ones that have been shared across podcasters and on reporters' channels. ( The latter said that LE did hundreds of hours of interviews with WSU staff and students)

An example - Sept - Oct WSU student told LE that somebody broke in her room and took underwear and perfume.


View attachment 608792

Much admiration for the WSU professor who saw him for what he is.

jmopinon

 

[iamshadow21]

Re manipulating mentioned above

I don't see him this way.

People were creeped by him.
Students complained.
Professors wanted to get rid of him.
He didn't have any friends nor his own social circle.
He was a proverbial loner.

So what kind of manipulation are we talking about?

Manipulative people are usually charming and popular.
With wide social circle.
Surrounded by others
(who are not conscious of being manipulated).

He was alone.

His only meaningful contact is with Mother.
He doesn't need to manipulate her.
She loves him as mothers do.
And worries about him.
And tries to help him as best as she can.

JMO

Just because most people were creeped out by him or felt he was 'off' doesn't mean he wasn't trying to manipulate, just that he didn't have the glib surface charm to be very successful at it with strangers and casual acquaintances.

And manipulation comes in many forms, not all of them facilitated by charm. Wearing someone like a close family member down through constant demands or dialogue is a form of manipulation. We know that he monopolised his parents, especially his mother this way, even from the other side of the country.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

The time difference for her as well! 5am calls then bedtime?
Hope this poor mother could nap during the day

Mothers can do anything for their children.
Some even give their lives for them.
So,
I don't think it was great sacrifice for this woman to talk to her son and try to help him.

She even went to sentencing exposing herself to the whole world watching and judging.
Simply to show son her support.
(Despite him pleading guilty)

I don't think it is other people's business to wonder about their conversations.
They are between Mother & son.
This is Family matter.

JMO

 

[Poedelini]

Mothers can do anything for their children.
Some even give their lives for them.
So,
I don't think it was great sacrifice for this woman to talk to her son and try to help him.

She even went to sentencing exposing herself to the whole world watching.
Simply to show son her support.
(Despite him pleading guilty)

I don't think it is other people's business to wonder about their conversations.
They are between Mother & son.
This is Family matter.

JMO

We all can wonder, but demanding inside information into their conversations is another story.
Jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

Mothers can do anything for their children.
Some even give their lives for them.
So,
I don't think it was great sacrifice for this woman to talk to her son and try to help him.

She even went to sentencing exposing herself to the whole world watching.
Simply to show son her support.
(Despite him pleading guilty)

I don't think it is other people's business to wonder about their conversations.
They are between Mother & son.
Family matter.

JMO

I'm going to have to disagree with you, Dotta. Specifically as concerns the fact that he called his mother first thing only a very short time after he killed four people and talked to her for hours.

Did he disclose anything probative? Probably not, but it does seem he felt he needed those hours talking to her to help him self regulate and level out after the murders. And that's fair game for discussion.

MOO

 

[303gmf]

Mothers can do anything for their children.
Some even give their lives for them.
So,
I don't think it was great sacrifice for this woman to talk to her son and try to help him.

She even went to sentencing exposing herself to the whole world watching and judging.
Simply to show son her support.
(Despite him pleading guilty)

I don't think it is other people's business to wonder about their conversations.
They are between Mother & son.
This is Family matter.

JMO

My comment was in sympathy for the time difference and interruption of life/sleep/emotional energy of a retired older mom of what should be a fully launched 28 year old 3rd born finally out from under them and across the country in a PhD program.
It’s ODD as well especially when said failure to launch creep brutally slaughtered 4 beautiful young students who did launch successfully.
It ALL invites speculation, interest and examination
No one is expecting to know what was said but we’re a typically curious bunch here trying to understand the dynamics, pathology and backstory of what made BK

Books will be written asking all the same questions and more

 

[MassGuy]

Has anybody on WS tracked down an ISP document link yet? I don't intend to trawl through all of them as I did with the MPD document dumps but there are already some real nuggets in the ones that have been shared across podcasters and on reporters' channels. ( The latter said that LE did hundreds of hours of interviews with WSU staff and students)

An example - Sept - Oct WSU student told LE that somebody broke in her room and took underwear and perfume.


View attachment 608792

Right here.

https://jfcool4attachments.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/attachments/JustFOIA-IdahoStatePolice-ID/3ceb9a32-ba19-46e2-820d-05c59c2f5c38/D22000030%20ISP%20REPORT%20-%20REDACTED%20(GRAPHIC).pdf?sv=2025-01-05&st=2025-08-16T04%3A16%3A36Z&se=2025-08-17T04%3A31%3A36Z&sr=b&sp=r&sig=cucQTf8ONJFVosWt4ir%2Ff58bFWpXfnIa0TPc6LdF9n8%3D

 

[Jw192]

I feel for the Kohberger family. At present there hasn't been anything released that shows that the parents parenting or behaviours had anything to do with how IT turned out or what IT grew into. From what we know, IT was seemingly very codependent on the parents - from the reports about the constant phone calls at all hours and if one didn't answer, the other would be called. From reports we know that the parents helped it through substance abuse and it seems like they done what they could to both help and raise their son right - there was even a police report for theft if I remember correctly which to me shows that the parents didn't necessarily mollycoddle their son and were willing to issue tough love when needed. This is why I feel for them. For example you have parents such as the ones of Lucy Letby, who no matter how hard I try, I cannot fully feel for them as I believe that their actions helped create the monster that is their daughter. To me though, the Kohbergers are also victims of their sons choices and actions. That said, I understand why people are interested in the phone conversations both directly after the crimes and during incarceration. I get it and I am too interested. That doesn't mean that I think for one second that his parents had any idea what their son had just done, as I don't believe that. I do think though that the incarcerated phone calls are the most interesting as I believe that the parents (mother specifically) played a part in the plea deal coming about. I don't think there is anything abnormal in a parent standing behind their monster of a child and loving them regardless, I believe that the Kohbergers know their son is guilty but they love their son... The little boy who they cling onto. Hell, I've always said that if my son ever committed a serious violent crime, I would walk him into the police station myself and hope for the harshest punishment that is justice for the victim, BUT I would also be there every single day in court, I would answer every single prison phone call/letter/message and I would love my son until mine or his dying breath, because he is my son. I believe that a parent can do that whilst respecting justice, the law and whilst respecting victims.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

I wonder what BK and his mother talk about for hours and hours? Perhaps she reads to him? Poor lady.

I know. I've wondered the same thing. I'm pretty close with my 2 grown kids. But I can't imagine my son wanting to talk to me on the phone, everyday for hours. I have no idea what we would discuss for that long.

My daughter and I do talk almost every day. But not for hours and hours.

It does not sound very healthy, especially given the long description of his lengthy P____N addiction. Somehow the lengthy list of those video titles, which include forced abductions, assaults, etc, and then info about him speaking to his mother daily for hours----the mixture seems toxically unhealthy. IMO

 

[cottonweaver]

The problem with these issues on college campuses…
- having room, car, apartment, broken into
- having personal belongings stolen from self, car, room, apartment
- being a victim of stalking on campus
- being a victim of sexual assault, from groping -> Grape
- being robbed, purse snatch
- being roofied at an on campus event

Is they often are not treated as a crime warranting attention
- often go unreported- Most female students assume nothing will be done.
- ‘handled internally’- Schools don’t want to panic others or ruin reputations.

Common issues aren’t typically committed by a loner incel, who has other issues.

And they didn’t amount to murder, so didn’t get a lot of attention.
And few campuses have acted as if those crimes are signs of larger crimes.

So they continue regularly

IMO

Yes Bobby Giacone was talking about how when - if ever - SA & harassment/prowlers etc are reported they typically get reported to campus police instead of direct to The Police.
Younger women also less likely to report minor stuff like prowling ( I appreciate that even if police do get a call about an incident the prowlers had already gone, but at least they'd have complete data to monitor scale & patterns. )

Anyway back to BK. I stubbornly refuse to accept that he wasn't doing this lower-level stuff pre WSU. The NCC & De Sales periods during the periods he was attending in person. ( I appreciate we'll never get that info, in some cases it's not in their interest to disclose, in others it's protected info. ) Looks like BK was prolific around Moscow & Pullman. Hard to believe that this habitual behavior was brand new from summer 2022.

Similarly, like many others on WS, I feel sure he planned murder before he arrived in WA. For him, this was to be one of many.

 

[cottonweaver]

I know. I've wondered the same thing. I'm pretty close with my 2 grown kids. But I can't imagine my son wanting to talk to me on the phone, everyday for hours. I have no idea what we would discuss for that long.

My daughter and I do talk almost every day. But not for hours and hours.

It does not sound very healthy, especially given the long description of his lengthy P____N addiction. Somehow the lengthy list of those video titles, which include forced abductions, assaults, etc, and then info about him speaking to his mother daily for hours----the mixture seems toxically unhealthy. IMO

and you don't need to set a grown son to bed at night. That's the kind of thing being described in the Levy interview, to stop him spiralling. ( Levy interview with the two Cellebrite investigators linked yesterday )

We spent ages here on WS remarking on whether or how unusual it was for a parent to do that 5 day drive, twice. Now we have the new context, he actually needed a minder. Independent living - in WA - was a big gamble.