GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #114

[gremlin444]

I know heights are hard to estimate and people are often off by inches.

But there is a big difference between 6 ft and 5'3...even if the victim was in bed instead of standing up, it's still easy to discern between fairly short and tall...

I think all the more so for women. As someone who is 5'3" on a good day, I may not be good at telling if someone is 5'9 vs 6 ft...because folk are all get lumped by my brain into the "way tall when compared to me" category. But I'm good, if given background objects to compare a person to or other reference points, at knowing if they are much closer in height to me or much different.

And in a familiar environment, like the person's own bedroom, they already know the approximate heights of the objects in the room..they aren't seeing this intruder in a void. Maybe in the very moment they couldn't have told you with a ton of accuracy, but once they were awake and thinking they can look at the room and what they remember and think "I could see my dresser mirror behind them and there was a huge gap between the top of their head and the top of the mirror" vs "They were almost entirely blocking the mirror behind them" kind of thing.

IMHO, that victim is highly likely to be accurate on the relative height of the intruder when it comes to being at the bottom end of 5ft vs the top end.

 

[gremlin444]

So, the photos of the kitchen. I noticed a few things, but have been too busy the last few days.

1) The open sliding glass door--the latch and the twist knob part are both in the "locked" position. Just to be sure, I went and photos of sliding glass doors that have the same handle.

2) The sliding glass door does not appear to be open very wide. Did he manage to ooch through there, turned sideways, and not have the blood on the front of whatever he was wearing smear onto the opening? I haven't seen anything in the docs about blood found on that opening.

3) What appears to be the much disputed Jack in the box bag is on the counter to the side of the sink--so that should end the "where was it actually found" question. That kitchen photo was taken around 12:30 on 11-13 (per the time on the stove, assuming the kids kept it semi accurate). That officer taking photos was only on scene from 12 to about 5:30 that Sunday, and by the outside light, it can't be too late in the afternoon. No, we can't see the JITB label, but it has the broken red tape...the same as the bag in the later photos--

From this photo on Nov 17 (https://jameskeivom.com/Idaho-Murders/234/caption), it looks like some items from the counter (including the bag we see from the counter) were moved behind the sink/into the sink after the initial photos were taken, when they needed forensics to be able to get to that kitchen window. Prior photos from JK and others initially show nothing other than a few things on the kitchen table.

Next, a lot of those items were moved to the kitchen table.( https://jameskeivom.com/Idaho-Murders/28/caption). The photos that we see of the popcorn bag, a bunch of dishes including stuff from the sink, and stuff from the countertops over on the kitchen table was taken Dec 1. But we do not see the JITB bag in those.

My brain keeps cycling around to #1 and #2.

1) Why was the latch and turn knob for the lock visibly in the LOCKED position on the open sliding glass door?? I didn't look to me like the door was off its tracks. Was there something broken on the door in the part the latch would go into that meant the latch wasn't actually catching on anything and locking the door?

2) Did police find any blood on that opening that he would have had to squeezed through sideways to exit? I can't see how after the attack on Xana he wouldn't have had blood on the front of whatever he was wearing, esp on his torso. Was he just incredibly lucky none of it brushed against the door frame?

 

[DizzyB]

Flying is completely tracked. MOO If he flew anywhere they would find it.

As to his possible fear of flying-he looked okay after his cross country flight from PA to Idaho, and that was a smaller plane.

 

[LinasK]

We don't know, but investigators do.

Do they? Because it was the investigators from WSU who suggested that he was there.

 

[Gemmie]

My brain keeps cycling around to #1 and #2.

1) Why was the latch and turn knob for the lock visibly in the LOCKED position on the open sliding glass door?? I didn't look to me like the door was off its tracks. Was there something broken on the door in the part the latch would go into that meant the latch wasn't actually catching on anything and locking the door?

2) Did police find any blood on that opening that he would have had to squeezed through sideways to exit? I can't see how after the attack on Xana he wouldn't have had blood on the front of whatever he was wearing, esp on his torso. Was he just incredibly lucky none of it brushed against the door frame?

I believe that a sliding door can be locked AND broken into without it being off it's tracks (once jimmied). I've posted this video many times (this one is for you @girlhasnoname) which shows how easy it is to do when the door is locked. What I don't know for sure, and guessing... is that by popping and pulling that it doesn't turn the lock lever. But that part is just a guess on my part.

 

[Ghostwheel]

My brain keeps cycling around to #1 and #2.

1) Why was the latch and turn knob for the lock visibly in the LOCKED position on the open sliding glass door?? I didn't look to me like the door was off its tracks. Was there something broken on the door in the part the latch would go into that meant the latch wasn't actually catching on anything and locking the door?

2) Did police find any blood on that opening that he would have had to squeezed through sideways to exit? I can't see how after the attack on Xana he wouldn't have had blood on the front of whatever he was wearing, esp on his torso. Was he just incredibly lucky none of it brushed against the door frame?

For 1, there are many ways the lock can be broken, but also my door will shut with the latch in the locked position. It's not locked for sure, though I had an older one where if it was in the locked position and you shut it hard enough, it would close and lock. That latch is the overhand kind, so as has been posted if the track is not like mine, it's not a hard pop. But just as likely it wasn't shut all the way and someone "locked" it without realizing it was not shut, therefore not locked. Ways it could be broken include the catch being broken (so it cannot latch), or the latch being floppy and broken. Being overhand, it would be in the down position if the spring or latch handle were broken.

For 2, he may have closed it part way on his way out I suppose. I can't imagine wanting to squeeze through anywhere. But I think I mentioned before, it is possible he stripped off all the outer bloodied clothing and that is what he was carrying in that weird fashion DM described as he left.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1955019256975990981

Stressed?
Harassed?



Oh dear!
Never mind.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

So, the photos of the kitchen. I noticed a few things, but have been too busy the last few days.

2) The sliding glass door does not appear to be open very wide. Did he manage to ooch through there, turned sideways, and not have the blood on the front of whatever he was wearing smear onto the opening? I haven't seen anything in the docs about blood found on that opening.

My brain keeps cycling around to #1 and #2.

2) Did police find any blood on that opening that he would have had to squeezed through sideways to exit? I can't see how after the attack on Xana he wouldn't have had blood on the front of whatever he was wearing, esp on his torso. Was he just incredibly lucky none of it brushed against the door frame?

(Both quotes snipped by me)

Here is one of the crime scene photos of the kitchen slider, taken on Sunday, November 13, 2022, but first shared publicly by KTVB last week, on Thursday, August 7:


Source (warning: KTVB’s YouTube video also includes redacted and blurred, but nonetheless graphic crime scene photos)

And here are two photos taken by photographer James Keviom over a week after the murders, on Monday, November 21, when Detective Gilbertson may have been timing a re-enactment of the murders:



Source of photos and caption:

https://jameskeivom.com/Idaho-Murders

Here’s a screenshot from a court document that discusses the time trials:



Source: Page 8 of the Order on Defendants Motion in Limine RE Vague and Undisclosed Expert Testimony

Note that in the photos, the heftier investigator fits quite comfortably between the slider and the door frame. If the murderer was indeed holding a container in front of him when DM had the misfortune of seeing him right after he brutally murdered poor Xana and Ethan, he could have simple shifted the container to his side, to the left or right, while he slid through the opening.

Of course, the murderer may have left evidence in his hurried escape, after all. Note the piece of red tape on the door frame, and the larger area of blue above and below the tape (not present on the original crime scene photo). Perhaps traces of victim blood were found on the door frame (or on the slider itself, which also has pieces of red tape in the later photos), though blood on the door frame, at least, is not obvious in the crime scene photo.

IMO

 

[Megnut]

Multiple thanks again, @LeahBee.

As you stated, this one from part 5 is making no sense to me at all.

Unfortunately it does strike me as someone inserting himself into the narrative.

JMO

Maybe... he's talking about when the house was listed for sale .. in the past. But still unrelated. Maybe a different pair of men --

IMO he (the tipster) drove by the house while his son was still alive, many years prior, and that's when he saw two men --

We know there were photos of the house online, presumably when it was last on the market. If it was sold 8-10 years ago, that would at least sync with the tip.

No reason the felon would be house hunting in Idaho 8-10 years ago .... but it could have been an honest tip nonetheless.

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

(Both quotes snipped by me)

Here is one of the crime scene photos of the kitchen slider, taken on Sunday, November 13, 2022, but first shared publicly by KTVB last week, on Thursday, August 7:

View attachment 607801
Source (warning: KTVB’s YouTube video also includes redacted and blurred, but nonetheless graphic crime scene photos)

And here are two photos taken by photographer James Keviom over a week after the murders, on Monday, November 21, when Detective Gilbertson may have been timing a re-enactment of the murders:

View attachment 607800
View attachment 607798
Source of photos and caption:

https://jameskeivom.com/Idaho-Murders

Here’s a screenshot from a court document that discusses the time trials:

View attachment 607807

Source: Page 8 of the Order on Defendants Motion in Limine RE Vague and Undisclosed Expert Testimony

Note that in the photos, the heftier investigator fits quite comfortably between the slider and the door frame. If the murderer was indeed holding a container in front of him when DM had the misfortune of seeing him right after he brutally murdered poor Xana and Ethan, he could have simple shifted the container to his side, to the left or right, while he slid through the opening.

Of course, the murderer may have left evidence in his hurried escape, after all. Note the piece of red tape on the door frame, and the larger area of blue above and below the tape (not present on the original crime scene photo). Perhaps traces of victim blood were found on the door frame (or on the slider itself, which also has pieces of red tape in the later photos), though blood on the door frame, at least, is not obvious in the crime scene photo.

IMO

Oh, hey, I was wrong. That is an underhand lock I could have sworn I saw overhand....). Different ways for that to be broken that make it easier to think it's locked, but it falls down..

But the thinking it's locked when the door might not be closed all the way still applies. Depends on the door.

 

[xjd11]

157 – Multiple receipts: BK’s purchases at Walmart and Target – nothing really to note, he bought a beanie 11/7. BF and BK both at same Target store 11/10, purchases ~1.5 hours apart. BK receipts for power inverter stuff 11/20 + 11/23. Grocery receipt for MM 11/12. Info about 2 storage units in Colfax WA, not sure how related?

I would be very interested to know what is in those 2 storage units in WA.

 

[xjd11]

someone asked about Castviz, it's a cell phone tracking program

 

[Chloegirl]

157 – Multiple receipts: BK’s purchases at Walmart and Target – nothing really to note, he bought a beanie 11/7. BF and BK both at same Target store 11/10, purchases ~1.5 hours apart. BK receipts for power inverter stuff 11/20 + 11/23. Grocery receipt for MM 11/12. Info about 2 storage units in Colfax WA, not sure how related?

I would be very interested to know what is in those 2 storage units in WA.

I would be interested to see those receipts to see what street that storage location is on if it is near Johnson Road? Buying a black beanie pre-murder makes (unfortnate) sense. Why did BK need two storage units when he had an empty bedroom to rent and an empty storage unit? Devious. JMOO

PS. Power inverter sounds like he has a new hobby of cleaning the vehicle.

 

[Sjöberg]

Full list of summaries of the 314 supplemental reports.

For anyone wanting to look into the main evidence for narrative, I read through 20-25 of the files that interested me the most and came up with this shortlist of browsing "what do we know" (mostly interviews, ignoring a lot of the more technical stuff):

32 - minimal summaries of autopsies
42 - initial interviews (with DM and arrived friends)
51 - LE documenting the finding of the bodies (somewhat graphic)
69 - interview with MC (sister of EC)
89 - initial interview with BF
103 - interviw with BKs neighbours
104 - interview with doordash driver (did not see the Elantra)
106 - interview with friend EA
114 - interview with JD (ex-bf of KG)
122 - interview with EA and others about Murphy
136 - detailing car and phone movements (longer)
246 - interview with L (another TA working alongside BK)
303 - interview with a fellow inmate at the same jail with BK

 

[LeahBee]

Maybe... he's talking about when the house was listed for sale .. in the past. But still unrelated. Maybe a different pair of men --

IMO he (the tipster) drove by the house while his son was still alive, many years prior, and that's when he saw two men --

We know there were photos of the house online, presumably when it was last on the market. If it was sold 8-10 years ago, that would at least sync with the tip.

No reason the felon would be house hunting in Idaho 8-10 years ago .... but it could have been an honest tip nonetheless.

JMO

But the tipster told the FBI he was in Moscow July of 2022, and then when he found out the homicides occured in November 2022, he told MPD that's when he was in Moscow. He also said on the second visit, the car was the same white Elantra he saw on TV and BK and his father were definitely in the vehicle. He also claims his nephew passed away shortly after this trip and then said he died 8 years earlier. It sounds like the tipster might have could have some cognitive issues imo. He gave these tips in 2023 so I'm not sure how he could confused 1 year ago with 8 years ago... and how BK would have been driving his white Elantra 8 years ago at 1122 King Road...

157 – Multiple receipts: BK’s purchases at Walmart and Target – nothing really to note, he bought a beanie 11/7. BF and BK both at same Target store 11/10, purchases ~1.5 hours apart. BK receipts for power inverter stuff 11/20 + 11/23. Grocery receipt for MM 11/12. Info about 2 storage units in Colfax WA, not sure how related?

I would be very interested to know what is in those 2 storage units in WA.

BK's name was not on the rental documents for either storage unit, it'd be interesting to know how they tie into the case

someone asked about Castviz, it's a cell phone tracking program

Thank you! I was summarizing these at ungodly hours with no sleep and my brain already turns to slop when I start reading about tech stuff even on a good day lol I didn't even have the energy to look it up

 

[LadyL]

Here is his jogging partner. They did night runs for 6-7 miles at night.

thank you for finding that! I hadn't seen it
I'm surprised that he had somewhat of a seemingly normal friendship
I wonder how old they were when they ran

 

[MeadowMuffin]

As to his possible fear of flying-he looked okay after his cross country flight from PA to Idaho, and that was a smaller plane.

Actually I don't believe we know if the felon is afraid of flying or not. During #163214's 2nd traffic stop in Indiana, after speaking about driving from Washington to Pennsylvania, the trooper asked him if he was afraid of flying. #163214 didn't answer, but IIRC they all laughed. I would think he drove because he needed a car in WA, and then again being home for a month in the winter, he wanted a car there too.

 

[Inthedetails]

Actually I don't believe we know if the felon is afraid of flying or not. During #163214's 2nd traffic stop in Indiana, after speaking about driving from Washington to Pennsylvania, the trooper asked him if he was afraid of flying. #163214 didn't answer, but IIRC they all laughed. I would think he drove because he needed a car in WA, and then again being home for a month in the winter, he wanted a car there too.

Also, he knew at that point he lost his job and research funding (or knew it was inevitable). If that is correct, he knew he wasn't returning to Washington so the car had to be driven to PA.

correct me if I have that wrong.

jmopinion

 

[gremlin444]

(Both quotes snipped by me)

Here is one of the crime scene photos of the kitchen slider, taken on Sunday, November 13, 2022, but first shared publicly by KTVB last week, on Thursday, August 7:

View attachment 607801
Source (warning: KTVB’s YouTube video also includes redacted and blurred, but nonetheless graphic crime scene photos)

And here are two photos taken by photographer James Keviom over a week after the murders, on Monday, November 21, when Detective Gilbertson may have been timing a re-enactment of the murders:

View attachment 607800
View attachment 607798
Source of photos and caption:

https://jameskeivom.com/Idaho-Murders

Here’s a screenshot from a court document that discusses the time trials:

View attachment 607807

Source: Page 8 of the Order on Defendants Motion in Limine RE Vague and Undisclosed Expert Testimony

Note that in the photos, the heftier investigator fits quite comfortably between the slider and the door frame. If the murderer was indeed holding a container in front of him when DM had the misfortune of seeing him right after he brutally murdered poor Xana and Ethan, he could have simple shifted the container to his side, to the left or right, while he slid through the opening.

Of course, the murderer may have left evidence in his hurried escape, after all. Note the piece of red tape on the door frame, and the larger area of blue above and below the tape (not present on the original crime scene photo). Perhaps traces of victim blood were found on the door frame (or on the slider itself, which also has pieces of red tape in the later photos), though blood on the door frame, at least, is not obvious in the crime scene photo.

IMO

I forgot about that picture on JK's site (please tell me you guys all go there a lot too for the pictures....otherwise, if he ever looks at the logs for his website, I'm going to stick out like a sore thumb!). That give a much better reference for the relative size of that opening. So, if he was wearing the coveralls like we thought AND the coveralls were snug fitting, he could get through without blood there. If it was oversized on him and blousing out significantly, the risk would be higher.

Someone else mentioned the door might have been open wider when BK exited and he pulled it partially shut--but why would he bother? He left it open....it really didn't benefit him much to pull it a few more inches closed vs pull it all the way shut behind him. And touching that handle now runs the risk of either leaving blood on it from his gloves or fingerprints if he take off the gloves (unless he doubled gloved, etc). I don't see where he gains anything from pulling it just partially shut behind him.

Alas, the red tape is what they used to seal the door when they police all left the inside of the house on the 13th...per, Officer Morris' report on Document 6:

"I stood at the rear of the residence for scene security. I assisted Sgt. Blaker in putting evidence tape on the sliding glass door on the south side of the residence. The tape was to ensure no persons tried to access the scene overnight."

Once police starting coming in and out on the 14th, that evidence tape was broken and not replaced. The two pieces we see on the exterior part of the frame line up with the ones on the outside of the sliding part of the door. The piece of tape we see to the far left of the picture on the interior side (all the pieces of interior tape show up as those thin white lines on the windows because we are seeing the adhesive side) of the slid door matches up with another small piece that is harder to see (easier on JK's site) on the interior side on the "stationary" door--sealing the two doors together on the inside when the doors are closed. The piece in the middle of the blue spray on the inner frame lines up with the piece of tape you can see on right hand edge on the interior side of the sliding door--to seal that side of the door to the frame when they were shut.

One thing that makes me feel more like that door was not able to latch property--the fact that we have multiple pictures that showed that LE turned one of those kitchen stools sideways and wedged it inside between the left frame and the sliding door (earliest photo I can find off the top of my head is James Kevieon again from Nov 18...I think there are others and perhaps earlier days than that, but I haven't been able to go on a massive search yet):

https://jameskeivom.com/Idaho-Murders/207/caption

I mean, yes, they could be using it as just another layer of security once the evidence tape has already been broken...but combined with the fact that the door was found open with the latch in the locked position makes me wonder....


I've only lived in one place that had a sliding glass door--in a St. Louis near suburb in a rented 2 story duplex. It went from the kitchen into a tiny fenced off concrete patio that was at ground level. And that fence had a gate in it so you could walk out to the trash cans back there on this weird little road that was pretty much only used by the trash collector. My husband travelled frequently for work, and I tended to spend my evenings in the finished basement because our computers and my exercise equipment was down there.

The first thing I did when we moved in was have us buy the thickest dowel that would fit and cut it to size so that it could be wedged in so firmly you couldn't budge the door even 1/4 of an inch even if it was unlocked. And put a padlock on the inner side of that gate to the trash alley. Luckily the sliding door had vertical blinds, and I kept those closed fully almost all the time (it's not like it gave us a view of anything). I hated that door with a passion. Unfortunately there really weren't any good door/window alarms or anything available (or at least that I knew of) to us as renters at that time back in the dark ages of the late 90s.

 

[mickey2942]

Did Bryan Kohberger Win Over Kaylee Goncalves’ Dog Before Idaho Murders — Letting Him Slip into House Undetected?

This new information comes from two friends of Kaylee Goncalves who spoke with police in interviews that were just unsealed by the Moscow Police Department.

people.com

This is interesting. I wonder if it actually occurred?!