Psychological Markers

I don't know what to think anymore. After readying the thread "The Last Happy Hour" thread the dr. could fit a SK. I mean his background fits, his job fits, many parts fit. I have no idea now.

Some little notes on the side:

1.) I haven't read the book, so I can't say too much about the contents. But I know about books in general, I wrote some dozen. What always amazes me is the ability to re-interpret, translators, critics and sometimes readers, trying to prove their individual bias show off when talking about books. All books. Because the difference is not in the books, it's about re-interpretation.

2.) After the wars (after WWI as after WWII) there was a tendency in the religious conservative circles to create a society based on Christian principles. Back in the time, a lot was discussed about "sinful" lifestyle and how to stop it. Books were written, radio shows dealt with the subject, you can find sometimes the expression of this social tendency in books about art as "renewal style". In literature, especially the style of discussions about a limited number of individuals, preferably with war experience was common.

3.) Truthspider tries since a year to pin the LISK2 murders on Hackett. Now, since we we basically know, SG wasn't connected, this bridge got even narrower. The tragic point in this is, that all he dug out, and Truthspider is an amazing sleuth, doesn't point in the least to LISK2. If at all, then, given Truthspider's earlier posts, I would look to connect Hackett to Manorville. So, in my opinion, Truthspider maybe haven't the wrong man, only the wrong murders. Note the part of the lobster dissection ... and compare it to

a.) dismembered bodies
b.) bodies dropped in one piece

I think, the main problem is, that people have a hard time to see, that there can be more than one killer in one area because some self-professed experts claim it's rare. But looking closer at other cases, it shows, that more than one is rather common (record holder is still London between 1887 and 1890 with a total of seven, four of them working the Whitechapel and Battersea areas, second in place is New York between 1975 and 1980 with at least seven but in a two year longer time period than place 1). So it's rather common to have at least two in one area, even small areas (Ohio had in the Sowell case two in the distance of one block, California with the Hillside Stranglers, the Manson Family and Alcala about half a dozen circling the same foothills).
 
Some little notes on the side:

1.) I haven't read the book, so I can't say too much about the contents. But I know about books in general, I wrote some dozen. What always amazes me is the ability to re-interpret, translators, critics and sometimes readers, trying to prove their individual bias show off when talking about books. All books. Because the difference is not in the books, it's about re-interpretation.

2.) After the wars (after WWI as after WWII) there was a tendency in the religious conservative circles to create a society based on Christian principles. Back in the time, a lot was discussed about "sinful" lifestyle and how to stop it. Books were written, radio shows dealt with the subject, you can find sometimes the expression of this social tendency in books about art as "renewal style". In literature, especially the style of discussions about a limited number of individuals, preferably with war experience was common.

3.) Truthspider tries since a year to pin the LISK2 murders on Hackett. Now, since we we basically know, SG wasn't connected, this bridge got even narrower. The tragic point in this is, that all he dug out, and Truthspider is an amazing sleuth, doesn't point in the least to LISK2. If at all, then, given Truthspider's earlier posts, I would look to connect Hackett to Manorville. So, in my opinion, Truthspider maybe haven't the wrong man, only the wrong murders. Note the part of the lobster dissection ... and compare it to

a.) dismembered bodies
b.) bodies dropped in one piece

I think, the main problem is, that people have a hard time to see, that there can be more than one killer in one area because some self-professed experts claim it's rare. But looking closer at other cases, it shows, that more than one is rather common (record holder is still London between 1887 and 1890 with a total of seven, four of them working the Whitechapel and Battersea areas, second in place is New York between 1975 and 1980 with at least seven but in a two year longer time period than place 1). So it's rather common to have at least two in one area, even small areas (Ohio had in the Sowell case two in the distance of one block, California with the Hillside Stranglers, the Manson Family and Alcala about half a dozen circling the same foothills).

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Please help me clarify your comments if I am misunderstanding them.

You are saying that since you have written some books you are in a position to generalize about all books and all readers of books. And that books have limited value for gaining knowledge because humans are unable to read a book without projecting their own ideas, experiences, and biases onto what they have read and want to "show off" to other people that they read books rather than understand the book and what the writer is saying.

Between WWI and WWII there was a new movement in society to follow Christian principles (as opposed to historic periods before World War I? ) During this period there was a new art movement called "renewal style" that expressed Christian ideas through the experience of fighting in WWII?

Truthspider has been trying to pin the Long Island serial murders on Hackett and all of us basically know that SG was not murdered and was not connected to any other murders on Long Island. You have coined a term "LISK2" on the theory that there are two serial killers running around Long Island and Ttuthspider has the two serial killers mixed up.

The main problem that people are having is there are some "self-proclaimed experts" who claim two serial killers operating at the same time in the same area is very rare so Hackett is probablyresponsible for all the murders. When in fact real experts know it is rather common to have two or more serial killers working and burying bodies in the same location at the same time.

Have I basically understood your comments?
 
It is too early to say that Manorville and GB4 are not one and the same. A change in lifestyle, available private workspace, physical change in either health/physical abilities of the SK, and/or a change in family dynamics or social standing might account for a change in his/her MO, cool down periods, etc.

Who is to say that Manorville does not have "staging?" The SK, may have evolved emotionally or religiously and having grown tired or embarrassed of his immature and gruesome displays moved toward a more ritualistic or religious type of "staging."

Just for hypothesis purposes: Let's say Manorville, AC and LI are related...chronologically one can see an evolution to a more mature method to his/her disposal of victims. Manorville gruesome & grotesque/attacks, by fours, against streetwalkers, AC laid out ritualistically, with some religious overtones, and orderly by fours, GB4 very ritualistic, adding a "hair shirt" of Burlap and moving ever closer to the rising sun and the shoreline (EAST). In AC, LE found a copy of Patterson's Beach Road next to one of the victims.

His/her signature is probably the Number 4.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Please help me clarify your comments if I am misunderstanding them.

You are saying that since you have written some books you are in a position to generalize about all books and all readers of books. And that books have limited value for gaining knowledge because humans are unable to read a book without projecting their own ideas, experiences, and biases onto what they have read and want to "show off" to other people that they read books rather than understand the book and what the writer is saying.

As I said, I'm always amazed by the ability to re-interprete. You just delivered a nice example. From the general note, that there is an effect of re-interpretation, you try to re-interprete what I have said, by twisting words and inserting your bias. Therefore, let it make clear, I never said, books have limited worth in gaining knowledge. Bending the written word to fulfill your imaginations though, maybe has limited worth. And to make the next point also clear: Normally, even when there is some re-interpretation, it is not generally a bad thing. Comparison of own experiences and of what I read help always to get a clearer picture. The mistake is the goal-oriented re-interpretation with the sole purpose to commit slander against the writer or persons in any connection against a book.

Between WWI and WWII there was a new movement in society to follow Christian principles (as opposed to historic periods before World War I? )

There were other periods in history too, but I thought, it was self-understanding, since Truthspider's post was connected to a book that dealt with WWII and was published after said war.

During this period there was a new art movement called "renewal style" that expressed Christian ideas through the experience of fighting in WWII?

If you would read instead to re-interprete, you would maybe discover, that I wrote "After the wars (after WWI as after WWII)". Translation, this movement popped up two times.

Truthspider has been trying to pin the Long Island serial murders on Hackett and all of us basically know that SG was not murdered and was not connected to any other murders on Long Island. You have coined a term "LISK2" on the theory that there are two serial killers running around Long Island and Ttuthspider has the two serial killers mixed up.

In fact, LISK1 or the one, who got the name "Long Island Killer first by the media was Joel Rifkin. Joel Rifkin, however, has nothing to do with the actual cases. He is in prison since 18 years.
LISK2 is, the one who dropped four bodies at Gilgo Beach. He is organized and almost panic free zone.
SG was dropped by someone, who was stupid enough to leave evidence near to the body.
Manorville had a dismemberer who dropped also body parts around on LI.

So, if you think about it, either you say, SG is unconnected to LISK2 or LISK2 is just a bloody moron, who has not the faintest idea about how to kill people and drop their bodies without leaving evidence behind. What shall it be?
And Manorville is a dismemberer, who staged at least one time a torso (Jessica Taylor). He obviously also kept body parts for years, indicating they have an inherent souvenir value for him. This indicates an entirely different psychopathology. Unless of course, you tell me now, it's one killer, who has an unknown number of personalities not knowing about each other and two of them are SKs with entirely different signatures.

The main problem that people are having is there are some "self-proclaimed experts" who claim two serial killers operating at the same time in the same area is very rare so Hackett is probably responsible for all the murders. When in fact real experts know it is rather common to have two or more serial killers working and burying bodies in the same location at the same time.

Not "real experts", just people who can read. And if you're one of those, I suggest to read up the Hillside Strangler case (with Charlie Manson and Alcala killing right in the neighborhood), Jack the Ripper (with the London Torso II, Cream and Koslowski right in the neighborhood), the Grim Sleeper, Anthony Sowell, Ted Bundy, Richard Lake and Charles Ng. All of them had other serial killers in the same area at the same time. Or look in WS for the I-45 murders, that's a neverending story of serial killers walking over each other's feet. Fact is, that in most cases, I have seen and researched, there was at least one more in the area. They are not that rare. So, ignore the facts or read, but don't try to twist words I wrote.

Have I basically understood your comments?
[/QUOTE]

Nope, you have basically understood zilch, but you re-interpreted everything.

P.S. Since you seem to know a lot about books and publishing, I may ask since when and with how many books you are published?
 
In my opnion, Manorville and LISK2 are two different persons. The burlap was only used in the GB4 cases and that is LISK2.
Normally, in cases of religious delusions (and I don't say, it's impossible per se), one would expect instead of discretely dropping wrapped bodies an extensive ritual, probably altar or shrine building and signs of self-justification with staging (as in laying out the victim in a pose to document, how "rescued" she now looks). So I'm not really ready yet, to go over that bridge, but then, that's only my opinion.

Your preceding post is fascinating. Thank you for sharing your insight.
 
@ Peter Brendt

Thanks again for giving such a detailed response to my post (#82 of this thread). It was so helpful and I learned a lot.

I apologize for the bad link I posted for “The Hidden Suffering of the Psychopath”. I have included the PDF for that paper in this post for you and anyone else interested in reading it.

Thanks!
 

Attachments

@ Peter Brendt

Thanks again for giving such a detailed response to my post (#82 of this thread). It was so helpful and I learned a lot.

I apologize for the bad link I posted for “The Hidden Suffering of the Psychopath”. I have included the PDF for that paper in this post for you and anyone else interested in reading it.

Thanks!

Thanks for the article. Interesting indeed. However, it includes some bridges, I wouldn't cross. Nowadays, there is often made a difference between psychopath and sociopath while the article, even while naming only "psychopaths" mixes a little bit with that distinction. Given the time, the sources were written (mostly early 90s), I can see why.
However, let there be a little warning: Not all SKs are psychopaths and not all are one of both (either psychopaths or sociopaths). And, as the article also points out to a degree, psychopathic behavior is not, what we see in TV shows, it can only in some cases end up there. And even more important, at least in the field of serial killers, there is rarely that one primary diagnosis alone, that explains all of it. Mostly, there is a bunch of secondary personality disorders or other kinds of mental issues. Lets take Jeffrey Dahmer, since he was an example in the article:

Dahmer's victimology shows mostly men older than him and more masculine. This points out, it wasn't only homosexual company, he looked for but a certain kind of company. Basically, he looked to be the weaker part, not the stronger one. But as I wrote on my website about him, it's possible to rape a victim, but not to make the victim take the active part in anal sex. However, we can see the attempt in details, for example Dahmer's attention on oral sex. So yes, Dahmer showed symptoms from some diagnostic lists, he was for example a perfect liar and he was also manipulative. However, he had also the ability to adapt to social situations and learn from them.
So okay, there was a part psychopath in the mix, but there was an even bigger part of abandonment issues in the mix, forcing him as soon as he met a man, to assume, something terrible will happen (the abandonment) and thus to kill them in the first place with the idea to make them some kind of zombie to prevent them from abandoning him. Only, and there is the rub, this behavior is more obsessive compulsive than psychopathic.
And when it comes to therapy? I have no experience, with how to treat a psychopath. From what I read in other articles, serotonin seems to be the key, lately we got also the theory of a "warrior-gene" and damages to the frontal lobe. The article, you posted, covers some of those areas, not all, but to me, it appears, there is a number of reasons, that can be someone into a psychopath and looking at the history of more than just two serial killers, a lot of them start in childhood. Only one case, I know, involved someone, who started late to kill, but he had all his life some issues. The weird thing is, that this one, Fred Albright, had a big circle of "friends" around him and a lot of them are still fighting for him.
 
I just wanted to point out that S.T.A.L.K., Inc has updated their Long Island perp profile as of January 9, 2012. Their recent update has me wondering if LE has the perp on the ropes? Here is the link for anyone interested in checking it out:

http://www.stalkinc.com/profile6.html
 
I just wanted to point out that S.T.A.L.K., Inc has updated their Long Island perp profile as of January 9, 2012. Their recent update has me wondering if LE has the perp on the ropes? Here is the link for anyone interested in checking it out:

http://www.stalkinc.com/profile6.html

Very interesting read. It seems like they're talking to him directly. In many cases the killer is tracked for long periods of time without their knowing it, before the police swoop in. May be the case here.

From the killer's perspective, turning yourself in does make sense. It gives him leverage in negotiating his conditions after he's apprehended. He'll get his moment of fame and be able to say that he was never caught. He could even play it off like he has a conscience and say he turned himself in before anybody else could get hurt.

Personally, I'd much rather see him manhandled by the S.W.A.T. team and thrown into general population where he will spend the rest of his life being a victim, or solitary confinement where he will slowly go insane.
 
Thanks for the article. Interesting indeed. However, it includes some bridges, I wouldn't cross. Nowadays, there is often made a difference between psychopath and sociopath while the article, even while naming only "psychopaths" mixes a little bit with that distinction. Given the time, the sources were written (mostly early 90s), I can see why.
However, let there be a little warning: Not all SKs are psychopaths and not all are one of both (either psychopaths or sociopaths). And, as the article also points out to a degree, psychopathic behavior is not, what we see in TV shows, it can only in some cases end up there. And even more important, at least in the field of serial killers, there is rarely that one primary diagnosis alone, that explains all of it. Mostly, there is a bunch of secondary personality disorders or other kinds of mental issues. Lets take Jeffrey Dahmer, since he was an example in the article:

Dahmer's victimology shows mostly men older than him and more masculine. This points out, it wasn't only homosexual company, he looked for but a certain kind of company. Basically, he looked to be the weaker part, not the stronger one. But as I wrote on my website about him, it's possible to rape a victim, but not to make the victim take the active part in anal sex. However, we can see the attempt in details, for example Dahmer's attention on oral sex. So yes, Dahmer showed symptoms from some diagnostic lists, he was for example a perfect liar and he was also manipulative. However, he had also the ability to adapt to social situations and learn from them.
So okay, there was a part psychopath in the mix, but there was an even bigger part of abandonment issues in the mix, forcing him as soon as he met a man, to assume, something terrible will happen (the abandonment) and thus to kill them in the first place with the idea to make them some kind of zombie to prevent them from abandoning him. Only, and there is the rub, this behavior is more obsessive compulsive than psychopathic.
And when it comes to therapy? I have no experience, with how to treat a psychopath. From what I read in other articles, serotonin seems to be the key, lately we got also the theory of a "warrior-gene" and damages to the frontal lobe. The article, you posted, covers some of those areas, not all, but to me, it appears, there is a number of reasons, that can be someone into a psychopath and looking at the history of more than just two serial killers, a lot of them start in childhood. Only one case, I know, involved someone, who started late to kill, but he had all his life some issues. The weird thing is, that this one, Fred Albright, had a big circle of "friends" around him and a lot of them are still fighting for him.


Thanks yet again for your analysis. I did not notice that there was a little blurring of the lines between sociopath and psychopath. That's important. Your warning that not all SKs are psychopaths is important too.

Have you heard about that theory that Dahmer had Aspberger's Syndrome? What do you think of that theory? I will try to find where exactly I read about the Aspberger's theory as it relates to Dahmer and post the link.

There is another theory I heard about recently in regards to psychopathy and it being a survival strategy and/or an adaptation. I can't remember which. I will find the article and post the link. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on that theory.

There was so much useful information in your post, I don't know what to do with myself.

Thanks again!
 
Very interesting read. It seems like they're talking to him directly. In many cases the killer is tracked for long periods of time without their knowing it, before the police swoop in. May be the case here.

From the killer's perspective, turning yourself in does make sense. It gives him leverage in negotiating his conditions after he's apprehended. He'll get his moment of fame and be able to say that he was never caught. He could even play it off like he has a conscience and say he turned himself in before anybody else could get hurt.

Personally, I'd much rather see him manhandled by the S.W.A.T. team and thrown into general population where he will spend the rest of his life being a victim, or solitary confinement where he will slowly go insane.


I like the way you think.
 
I like the way you think.

I do too, and your posts too Peter are always so informative.

Dwn, I've been thinking about this SK being labeled a 'sexual sadist' as it says in this link and wonder if that means he is psychopathic and or sociopathic as well? Thank you so much for that STALK link - fascinating for sure.

PS: I don't think JB fits the 'sweet talker' personality, although it could be he was under pressure from the reporter when I heard him speak. Also, is CG the one of these 3 OB guys {including CPH} who has not acted as a John? Ta
 
I do too, and your posts too Peter are always so informative.

Dwn, I've been thinking about this SK being labeled a 'sexual sadist' as it says in this link and wonder if that means he is psychopathic and or sociopathic as well? Thank you so much for that STALK link - fascinating for sure.

PS: I don't think JB fits the 'sweet talker' personality, although it could be he was under pressure from the reporter when I heard him speak. Also, is CG the one of these 3 OB guys {including CPH} who has not acted as a John? Ta


I'm not exactly sure what the distinction is between sociopath and psychopath. For a while, I actually thought that the "sociopath" label was no long in use but, that does not appear to be the case. Maybe we should ask Peter Brendt what the distinction is?

I don't know who CG is. See, we need a glossary for all these initials!

I can't eliminate JB off my personal list of Possible suspects. He was the john, has a questionable character, was one of the last people to see Shannan Gilbert and he was not pleased with Shannan. Maybe he can charm for short periods of time when he really wants something? IDK.

I am of the opinion that the perp is a sexual sadist too.

Btw, I am still perplexed by Shannan Gilbert not wanting to leave JB's and her hiding behind his couch. That would seem to eliminate JB as a possible suspect? I still think that was you said about her making the perp is the most logical explanation. But, how , when, why did she ID/make the perp? Have you thought any more about this? Do you have any ideas?
 
@ Peter Brendt-

What is the difference between sociopath and psychopath? How would either diagnosis fit into the profile etc. of a sexually sadistic serial killer (if the long island perp is one)?

Thanks in advance!
 
It is too early to say that Manorville and GB4 are not one and the same. A change in lifestyle, available private workspace, physical change in either health/physical abilities of the SK, and/or a change in family dynamics or social standing might account for a change in his/her MO, cool down periods, etc.

Who is to say that Manorville does not have "staging?" The SK, may have evolved emotionally or religiously and having grown tired or embarrassed of his immature and gruesome displays moved toward a more ritualistic or religious type of "staging."

Just for hypothesis purposes: Let's say Manorville, AC and LI are related...chronologically one can see an evolution to a more mature method to his/her disposal of victims. Manorville gruesome & grotesque/attacks, by fours, against streetwalkers, AC laid out ritualistically, with some religious overtones, and orderly by fours, GB4 very ritualistic, adding a "hair shirt" of Burlap and moving ever closer to the rising sun and the shoreline (EAST). In AC, LE found a copy of Patterson's Beach Road next to one of the victims.
His/her signature is probably the Number 4.

Hi there Just K, What is Patterson's Beach Road? Also, just reading the new profile for the LISK I thought of you as it stated the AC killings are not a part of the group. I'll have to check that exactly, it was a statement at the end of the profile. I know you said hypothetically. ;}
 
I'm not exactly sure what the distinction is between sociopath and psychopath. For a while, I actually thought that the "sociopath" label was no long in use but, that does not appear to be the case. Maybe we should ask Peter Brendt what the distinction is?

I don't know who CG is. See, we need a glossary for all these initials!

I can't eliminate JB off my personal list of Possible suspects. He was the john, has a questionable character, was one of the last people to see Shannan Gilbert and he was not pleased with Shannan. Maybe he can charm for short periods of time when he really wants something? IDK.

I am of the opinion that the perp is a sexual sadist too.

Btw, I am still perplexed by Shannan Gilbert not wanting to leave JB's and her hiding behind his couch. That would seem to eliminate JB as a possible suspect? I still think that was you said about her making the perp is the most logical explanation. But, how , when, why did she ID/make the perp? Have you thought any more about this? Do you have any ideas?

:banghead: OMG, Sorry, I meant Gus, GC. lol

ETA: Dwn, Could it be the perp asked Shannan to do something that she realized was not pleasurable and was sexually sadistic? Her street smarts and time working the trade would send warning signals to her brain right away. And furthermore, I think whatever it was he was doing to her, Shannan realized it could result in her death. She most likely saw this excited him sexually. What he was doing to her ??? Maybe cutting off her air supply too long, she got away from him, he was still excited to see her screaming about being killed so couldn't run after her right away ~ And maybe one of the other guys was cheering him on and acting like a pervert. Je ne sait. What do you think?
 
Hi there Just K, What is Patterson's Beach Road? Also, just reading the new profile for the LISK I thought of you as it stated the AC killings are not a part of the group. I'll have to check that exactly, it was a statement at the end of the profile. I know you said hypothetically. ;}

I am of the camp that believes that AC is related. I will be very surprised if one day it is determined, beyond a reasonable doubt, that AC & GB4 are unrelated. My personal theory about this killer's profile: As the killer matured in age, social standing, educational & professional experience and possible life changes occurred (health, family structure, religious belief system, available workspace or vehicle, etc) that his MO, in killing, also matured or became more sophisticated, more detailed and more ritualistic.

Re: The Patterson Book (Beach Road)
A copy of this book was found near the four victims.

Here is a snippet from Amazon

Amazon.com: Beach Road (9780316159784): James Patterson ...
"www.amazon.com › Books › Literature & Fiction
The gripping Beach Road returns to the world of the Hamptons, where Patterson set The Beach House (2002). Tom Dunleavy is a small-time lawyer who lands a ..."

And from Patterson's website:

http://www.jamespatterson.com/books_beachRoad.php

"EXPENSIVE
Then a friend of Tom's is arrested for a triple murder near a movie star's mansion. Tom knows in his gut that Dante Halleyville is innocent. Dante asks him to represent him in what could be the Trial of the Century.

EXCLUSIVE
Tom recruits Manhattan superlawyer Kate Costello to help. She's a tough hire, because Kate is his ex-girlfriend-but she agrees. In their search to find who really executed three locals, Tom orchestrates a series of revelations to expose the killer-and what emerges is staggering."
 
I am of the camp that believes that AC is related. I will be very surprised if one day it is determined, beyond a reasonable doubt, that AC & GB4 are unrelated. My personal theory about this killer's profile: As the killer matured in age, social standing, educational & professional experience and possible life changes occurred (health, family structure, religious belief system, available workspace or vehicle, etc) that his MO, in killing, also matured or became more sophisticated, more detailed and more ritualistic.

Re: The Patterson Book (Beach Road)
A copy of this book was found near the four victims.

Here is a snippet from Amazon

Amazon.com: Beach Road (9780316159784): James Patterson ...
"www.amazon.com › Books › Literature & Fiction
The gripping Beach Road returns to the world of the Hamptons, where Patterson set The Beach House (2002). Tom Dunleavy is a small-time lawyer who lands a ..."

And from Patterson's website:

http://www.jamespatterson.com/books_beachRoad.php

"EXPENSIVE
Then a friend of Tom's is arrested for a triple murder near a movie star's mansion. Tom knows in his gut that Dante Halleyville is innocent. Dante asks him to represent him in what could be the Trial of the Century.

EXCLUSIVE
Tom recruits Manhattan superlawyer Kate Costello to help. She's a tough hire, because Kate is his ex-girlfriend-but she agrees. In their search to find who really executed three locals, Tom orchestrates a series of revelations to expose the killer-and what emerges is staggering."
Thanks Just K, I was just reading STALK's partial profile of the AC killer. They believe he is not the 'Sweet Talker' that the GB4 killer is. A big personality difference. And do we know of any foot fettish with the GB4 or Manorville killings?

It does make me wonder what happened to Shannan's boots and either black sandals or ballet slippers - which ever 2 pairs were not found with her things. Were they in Pac's truck?


ETA: Patterson looks like an exciting writer, reading his website. Exposing the killer, staggering facts emerge possibly read by a person who is driven to kill these women and trying his best to figure out how not to get caught! IMO

They say these SK'ers will kill again, and I often wonder if they have and we just don't know about it.
 
Just a thought: Was Michael Pak giving a clue or making some Freudian slip when he first stated that he was playing online Poker in his vehicle outside the gated community.

Was this indeed a Poker Party with Shannan as the entertainment?

Michael Pak is also the one, IIRC, who stated that Shannan called him to make a run to CVS for cards and lube. Is this another hint from MP? Makes you wonder just how many people did come to JB's party. The thought keeps coming to me that JB drove Shannan to someone's house in order to get approval or direction as to whether or not SG would suit one of the guest's requests. If the answer was "no", then perhaps JB was trying to get her to leave before the guest arrived or to arrange for a girl that suited that someone better.

Hope that makes sense...
 
Scandi, SG's missing shoes...hmmmm...that is a good point. We know that at least some of the Manorville victim's were missing body parts. IIRC, JT was missing her head and a foot and hand. Jane Doe 10 was in pieces and is still with missing parts. We have heard that the GB4 were naked. So, we don't know what happened to their shoes.

About AC SK not being a sweet talker: The minister who says Kim R was last seen as she left to go to one of the casinos, with that one guy, might beg to differ. Also, BB was said to be a looker who could pass in the casinos (not be spotted as a pro.) No one really knows too much about the AC killer either. One has to wonder if the profilers are suggesting that because the women were found behind one of the seediest motels in AC.
 

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