RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

I wonder if they really fit in anywhere? Perhaps they were unlikeable.

I think they fit in well in Charlevoix. It seems like Burke is still friends with a lot of people from there. I don't think they would've moved (back) to such a small town if they didn't feel comfortable.
 
Adapted, moral adults self sacrifice for a greater good. Infantile narcissistic adults find other things to be sacrificed for their self interest.

Yes. And thank you for validating and refreshing for me what I know, but had put on the back burner regarding narcissistic personalities. I have JR pegged as a first class narcissist, but had thought of Patsy as more of the people pleaser type, who can sometimes be the other side of the seesaw for narcissists. If both JR and PR were narcissists of the first order, then it's no wonder those poor kids of theirs were both seeing psychiatrists.....and were demonstrating traits not usual for children their age.
 
Yes. And thank you for validating and refreshing for me what I know, but had put on the back burner regarding narcissistic personalities. I have JR pegged as a first class narcissist, but had thought of Patsy as more of the people pleaser type, who can sometimes be the other side of the seesaw for narcissists. If both JR and PR were narcissists of the first order, then it's no wonder those poor kids of theirs were both seeing psychiatrists.....and were demonstrating traits not usual for children their age.

this is what I think of when I have my IDI moments (rarely but it does happen lol)...if IDI then these two are the most cowardly,selfish parents I've ever heard of!cause everything that points to their guilt IMO is something else if IDI>>>...they were cowardly,scared,naive chickens

:moo:
 
this is what I think of when I have my IDI moments (rarely but it does happen lol)...if IDI then these two are the most cowardly,selfish parents I've ever heard of!cause everything that points to their guilt IMO is something else if IDI>>>...they were cowardly,scared,naive chickens

:moo:

Yes, IF (and that's a big if) an intruder really did this...why did they not:
-fully cooperate right away via an interview asap. IIRC, they had a lawyer by the next day when police went to the F's to talk to them
-give up their phone records from that night
-give the medical records

I could go on, but you all probably already know what else. jmo
 
Although the murmurings I heard (whilst slaving for non-profit wages amongst the ladies who lunch) in Atlanta were that Patsy was always considered "too much" and a "climber". And I have stated before that BR was given a wide berth by their children because of his unusual (IDK which) behaviors.

The Ramseys were not Atlanta insiders.

Although in all fairness, one can live their whole life in Atlanta but if they are not born there, they are not an Atlantan. Heck, I WAS born there, raised elsewhere and moved back as a young adult, had my DD at Piedmont Hospital on Peachtree Street and was NEVER considered an Atlantan. :truce:
I kinda think one of the books talks about what PR was like at the kids' school, in terms of what other parents/mothers thought. "too much" is the flavor of what I remember being said about her hair/clothes/makeup, needing to be noticed, and always being the biggest cog in the wheel (PR/my mom = separated at birth)
 
I was thinking about the dust that was found on the bottom of JB's feet...
Could it be that she didn't walk in the basement, but whoever re-dressed her have stood her up to help with getting the panties and long johns on?
 
I kinda think one of the books talks about what PR was like at the kids' school, in terms of what other parents/mothers thought. "too much" is the flavor of what I remember being said about her hair/clothes/makeup, needing to be noticed, and always being the biggest cog in the wheel (PR/my mom = separated at birth)

What about the black veil at the funeral? A little too much imo.

:moo:
 
from Steve Thomas' Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation

Before the Christmas break, her mother arranged to have JonBenet perform as a holiday treat for her classmates, and in pageant finery she sang and danced all day while class after class came through to watch. She went home exhausted. Her lesson in school that day was that perfection and celebrity carried a price. On December 17 she picked up still another crown, Colorado's Little Miss Christmas.

Six days later, during a party at her parents' home, a family friend came across a JonBenet who was seldom seen. The child was immaculate in a holiday frock, and her platinum hair was done perfectly, but she sat alone on a staircase in the butler's kitchen, crying softly. The friend sat beside her.

"What's wrong, honey?"

Little Miss Christmas sobbed, "I don't feel pretty."

Additional interviews filled in small pieces of the Ramsey puzzle. An acquaintance said that JonBenet was rebelling against appearing in the child beauty contests. She was being pushed into the pageants by her mother and grandmother, said the witness. Someone else, who knew the family through the school JonBenet attended, said the girl so routinely presented gifts to her teachers on holidays that Patsy was asked to be more discreet because the feelings of other students were being hurt.

To further understand the personalities of Patsy and John Ramsey, we compiled detailed biographies.

From a very young age, Patsy appeared determined to rise above her West Virginia upbringing, to succeed, and showed that she appreciated the value of a good appearance. You could almost plot her progression from high school sweetheart to glamorous beauty queen to well-to-do hostess in the pretty front room of an expensive home. Her history showed that she understood the value of drama and staging. The FBI would tell us that the disposal of the body of JonBenet had the classic elements of a staged crime, complete with a Hollywoodized ransom note.
 
Van Derbur's book was painful to read, but anyone who believes they know what goes on inside a "nice" family taken at face value needs to do so. There are numerous parallels between the lives of Patsy and Marilyn. I have no knowledge that Patsy was sexually abused, but Marilyn is an expert and trailblazer in advocating for sexual abuse victims, and she knows exactly of what she speaks.

Forensics and the LE investigation can tell us a lot about what was going on before that night and what happened to JonBenet on that night. What it hasn't told us is exactly to what extent any or all of the three remaining family members in the house were involved.

I do have one word of caution: Linda Hoffman-Pugh was a helpful witness for LE in this case, but anything attributed to her from her time under the use of Darnay Hoffman (no relation) is unreliable, IMO. I believe we learned at some point some of the tabloid articles about the case were leaks sold by Ramsey shill Jameson; Darnay was one of her sources, as well, it turned out.

About the abuser of JonBenet Ramsey: I am sure someone in the family was sexually abusing JonBenet.
_______________________
All this strictly my opinion.

There is no doubt, as the autopsy is public record, that six year old JonBenet certainly had a damaged hymen, bed-wetting problems, and healing vaginal injuries: that's proof enough for me she was sexually abused before the night she was murdered.

I can't imagine Patsy didn't at least know about this because there would have been obvious signs: bleeding, inappropriate behaviors, and the child could have told or been asked about it herself. An upset Patsy did complain to a close friend that JonBenet was "flirting" inappropriately. When Patsy and Dr. Beuf claimed not to remember what Patsy called his office about three times on Dec. 17th after hours, that tells me a lot, so that's part of the body of evidence and pattern of events I consider important.

It's significant that JR said his lawyers were protecting him as the prime suspect in the beginning. That was because of the autopsy results determining sexual abuse, IMO. How did JR or his lawyers know about this so quickly, long before the autopsy report had even been written?

Because the Ramseys knew about it before the murder, IMO. Patsy at least absolutely had to know. Yet even she never admitted that to LE in any interview. She lied and evaded and obfuscated the investigation at every turn.

But even knowing that still doesn't prove with evidence which one committed the sexual abuse before that night or during the murder.

As Van Derbur wrote, if her parents thought she was going to go public with her father's sexual abuse of her they'd have killed her and then gone to lunch.

Was that the dynamic of the Ramseys?

Sadly, there were definitely similarities to the dynamics in Van Derbur’s family, including possibly a mother who knew what was happening but was not able, or was conflicted about correcting it. But, I do not believe JB’s death was intentional. Most of the time the theories here revolve around the idea of a horrible accident covered up. But the question about dynamics of the R family made me think a little more about this. It’s strictly my opinion, but believing that the two did cover up the child’s homicide, it’s possible that if JB were revealing things to her good friend DW, or even DW’s mother PW, then yes It seems to me they’d be capable of killing JB intentionally. I base that “sense” on their displays of entitlement, of the stories about JR’s ruthlessness, of PR’s shallowness (ability to drop friends easily all the time displaying a charm which would take people in. Witness LA and ML, two women who should have known better).

While attempting “proper sleuthing”, I read one poster’s evaluation of fashioning a ligature around himself, (and OTG’s admonition to please be careful!!), I read up on choke holds which render people unconscious – just didn”t know that that is supported by the autopsy. I wish I could be as sure of a theory as some posters here. But it still comes down for me a domestic incident covered up. And I still believe that incest is at the heart of whatever happened and why it had to be covered up.

A Dr. Robert Brissie, forensic pathologist and another child abuse expert, came to a conclusion of child sexual abuse from a review of the AR, while qualifying that he did not see the photos or slides of her injuries. He also, made one other statement pertinent to the case: there was only a miniscule possibility that the abuse was perpetrated by a woman unless it was staged. (Hodges book AMGB pg 168) Thus I consider BR or JR the likely suspects in the initiation of whatever happened to JB. (It may be, as others have suggested, a possibility each of them, on separate occasions, had abused JB.)

One other interesting similarity between JR and BR. In Kolar’s book he calls BR an “Enigma”. In many interviews of people who knew JR, they’ve said things which indicated how secretive JR was. He was known at Access Graphics to just disappear for several hours, not telling anyone, not even his secretary where he was. At some dinner parties he was known to sometimes barely say a word to the person sitting next to him. His one-time limo driver said JR was polite but quiet, the least communicative person who had ever ridden with him. Always wearing sunglasses, even though the windows were darkened. He would get in the back of the limo and never say a word. (Hodges, WWSFJ, pg. 186, 187)

So then you have BR who never asked one question when he walked out of his room that morning of the 26th, even though there were lots of people and police there. BR knows what happened, even if it is lodged somewhere in his brain he has locked out. When the BPD detectives tried to speak to BR, they were rebuffed and then LW threatened to sue the BPD. Could it be that BR called his dad who spun into action and contacted LW?
______________
Strictly all my opinion
 
Burke had nothing to do with the death of JonBenet.

John had nothing to do with the death of JonBenet.
 
PMPT: Atlanta/Boulder friend Judith Phillips

In the fall of 1995, High Peaks Elementary, our school, opened. Patsy enrolled Burke in the third grade ... She was very overdressed for our little city. Her hair was always done, and she always wore city outfits and hats. Of course I didn't know then that she was recovering from chemotherapy and that her hair was still growing back. High Peaks depended on volunteers for survival, and Patsy volunteered all the time.

Patsy was generous with her time and commitment to High Peaks. During the 1995-1996 school year, Patsy had been in charge of the science fair, in which 138 children in kindergarten through fourth grade had participated. She created an environment in which students could discuss their projects with professional scientists so that even the scientists felt their time was well spent. She found three judges to review each project. For a meteorology project, Patsy got a meteorologist, for biology, a biologist.

The Good Fairy project was one of Patsy's ideas. Instead of asking people to raise money in the usual ways ... in Good Fairy, teachers were to make a list of things they needed ... ranging in price from $3 to $200 ... Patsy then put together spreadsheets and sent the parents copies of each teacher's list. Good Fairies were designated for each class. They called families and merchants and encouraged them to look over the list ... and pick something to donate. The entire school was decorated in the fairy theme, with pink streamers hanging everywhere ... and the arrangements became very elaborate - too elaborate for some people. They would have preferred to write a check and be done with it. There were also some parents who thought that Patsy had made too big a deal of an elementary school science fair. But most people involved were dumbstruck by Patsy Ramsey's ambitious and well-executed projects.

John dressed casually, and Patsy always wore fine clothes. "When you go outside your home," she always said, "you dress up. Full makeup." In fact, she was always a little overdressed ... Patsy was put on a pedestal by her friends. Roxy Walker would always say Patsy this and Patsy that, as if there were no higher authority than Patsy's opinion. Once I had to tell her, "Patsy is just a person."

The social rules in Boulder were different from anything Patsy knew in Atlanta. In order to fit into society, you have to find your own niche in Boulder. Patsy just didn't fit into jeans. She ended up getting tight black pants with rhinestone cowboy boots.

After the house was finished, she opened it up to visitors for Boulder's annual Christmas Tour of Homes. They let anybody view any room, even the bedrooms and bathrooms. They showed people their closets. My husband, Robert, who was now their family and estate attorney, warned them, "Close off your private rooms. Keep your guests on the first floor." They didn't.

Patsy wanted to make a statement. There were extravagently decorated Christmas trees in almost every room. Everything she does is Texas-size. Patsy is most comfortable in opulence. She wants the best of the best. But that isn't a Boulder thing. Most people in the community were shocked.

One day, in '95 or '96, Nedra took me upstairs. "Judith, you've got to see this." She showed me Patsy's closet. Nearby there was a display - almost a shrine. Pictures of Miss West Virginia. Patsy in every phase of her pageant days. Lots of paraphanalia on the walls. It surprised me.

Then there was the time Nedra pulled this little cowboy outfit out of the closet.

"This is not JonBebet's." I said. "What's it for?"

"Well, Judith, we're just getting JonBenet into a few pageants."

"Why would you do something like that?"

"You know, she's not too young to get started."

"And what if JonBenet isn't willing?" I asked. "What if she says, 'I'm not going to do it!' How would you respond to that?"

"Oh, Judith, we would never consider her saying no. We would tell JonBenet, 'You must do it. You will be a Miss Pageant.' "

It was sort of eerie. A little scary. The inevitability of it - from grandmother to mother and now to daughter.
 
I live in a town full of PR. IMO PR did everything to gain attention to herself. She did charitable work because she had an agenda, not because she was charitable. IMO JBR was another "way" of her self agrandizing. JBR was expendable like a doll you get tired of playing with sadly. IMO JBR was a victim on so many levels. JMV
 
I think it's exaggerated about how the R's didn't fit in in Boulder. From what I've heard, they had plenty of friends; the Whites, the Stines, the Fernies, the Bynums, the Elowskys, etc. They knew enough people to throw a big birthday party for Patsy in November. Patsy didn't fit in because she didn't dress down? I don't really buy that...Boulder has 100k people, sure you have the stereotypical hippies, but I just don't see how Patsy would stand out that much because she didn't wear jeans. I have heard that Patsy's personality was off-putting for people, which I think makes more sense for why people didn't like her, than how she dressed/looked. But I bet you High Peaks Elementary was filled with moms like Patsy.
 
Patsy said she had been "inspired" by Jacquie Kennedy at JFK's funeral....um, 'kay.

I guess it did not occur to her that JFK's funeral was in 1963 when it was still customary for Catholic women to wear veils inside the church?.

I would have to paraphrase that guy that ran against Dan Quayle years ago when commenting on Patsy's attempt to emulate Jackie. You, Patsy were no Jackie Kennedy. Not by a longshot.
 
I guess it did not occur to her that JFK's funeral was in 1963 when it was still customary for Catholic women to wear veils inside the church?.

I would have to paraphrase that guy that ran against Dan Quayle years ago when commenting on Patsy's attempt to emulate Jackie. You, Patsy were no Jackie Kennedy. Not by a longshot.

I think Patsy did not care that JFK was buried in 1963. That had nothing to do with it. It was obvious that the image of Jacquie in that veil stuck in her mind (as I am sure it did with all who are old enough to remember it). Possibly in her own mind, she thought she was like her in some way. In any event, it was also a televised "public" funeral and this was a very "memorable" outfit. JB's funeral was going to be the same, as far as Patsy thought. It WAS televised and it was national news.
While it is no longer customary (it actually was mandatory for us Catholic women at one time) - many women do still wear a head covering- chapel veil, hat, etc. The headpiece completed her funeral "outfit" as well as shielding her face from onlookers. Runny mascara is no way to appear on TV.
 
A "better metaphor," Salem? Really?

So now it's the thought police micro-editing posts.

Well, it was nice posting with all those here who want justice.

RIP, JonBenet. I'll keep my vigil elsewhere.
 

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