RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

[elannia]

I think there is a possiblity that Burke was involved, although that is more of a secondary theory for me. As far as JB being brutalized and Burke being a child, well children have been known to brutalize other children. However, I don't think he did so in this case. In my (secondary ) scenario, Burke inflicted the head blow. Patsy did the rest.

That theory does not conflict, IMO, with Burke asking "what did you find?" Because Burke would not have known about the fake RN. I don't think even Patsy would include her nine year old in the staging. Most likely sent him to bed and did the rest.

However, my primary theory remains Patsy did it all.

The problem with the idea that they just wanted to protect him from anxiety, and questioning that could well be true. However, it still points to guilt, IMO. Because if there really was an intruder I would think one of the first things innocent parents would do is wake up the child who had been sleeping on the same floor as JB and ask if he heard or saw anything. I just cannot comprehend that if one child is missing, your concern would be with upsetting the child that is still there. The ONLY thing on any parents mind, at that point, would be finding her.

Or at least that would be on the mind of an innocent parent, IMO.

I agree. If burke caused the head blow and patsy sent him off to bed thats why he asked what did you find. I think patsy finished by the garrote maybe thinkung she was already dead so it wouldnt hurt her.If it was patsy I dont see her picking up the maglite or a golf club out of rage and causing the head blow. Out of rage pushing her or maybe trying to change her top and she falls and thats how the blow occurred. But the way it was in the photos I cant picture a fall making a big hole like that. And I imagine john woke up to a deer in headlights that morning. patsy was under alot of stress and I believe he went to bed before she did. But he covers for her by saying she was already in bed . So in one theory I think john helped burke finish his toy then he went to bed leaving burke JB and Patsy (to finish packing) something happened with JB and burke then patsy started the cover up. Otoh if it was all patsy it prob started in the bedroom then the bathroom and ended in the basement. One more thing... by the time they return home from party,delivering gifts finishing up inside it didnt leave much time for an intruder... Supposedly john was zonked out but he had read before bed. So do we think that they go to sleep and in less than 2hours someone comes in and kills their daughter. Surely they couldnt have been asleep for very long

 

[bettybaby00]

All im saying is why the need to lie? He may have known something that could have helped. I understand the trauma of him being a child but why lie about it. Why not say yes our son was awake that morning during the 911 call.

B/c it was all about distancing. If everyone, including Burke, went to bed, and never saw JB again, then obviously they don't know what happened. If they had admitted he was awake at anytime during that night or that morning, he was going to be questioned, possibly extensively b/c his room was right by JonBenet's.

And it worked, b/c by the time they finally admitted he was awake that morning, there were no more questions from LE, that time had come and gone...except of course for the GJ. Burke was one of the last people called before the GJ, and we now know they ultimately signed more than one TB.

We will never know how the course of the case could have gone if the public was made aware of what the GJ decided. Instead, we had 15+ years of Lin Wood saying the GJ didn't indict, see how innocent they are?

 

[elannia]

B/c it was all about distancing. If everyone, including Burke, went to bed, and never saw JB again, then obviously they don't know what happened. If they had admitted he was awake at anytime during that night or that morning, he was going to be questioned, possibly extensively b/c his room was right by JonBenet's.

And it worked, b/c by the time they finally admitted he was awake that morning, there were no more questions from LE, that time had come and gone...except of course for the GJ. Burke was one of the last people called before the GJ, and we now know they ultimately signed more than one TB.

We will never know how the course of the case could have gone if the public was made aware of what the GJ decided. Instead, we had 15+ years of Lin Wood saying the GJ didn't indict, see how innocent they are?

True True.. what a crock it was that this poor girl suffered so much and still no outcome. Maybe john will confess on his death bed but I think not since there is still burke.

 

[THE BUNK]

PR and JR are pretty despicable but they may have simply been trying to protect a scared 9 year old child from anxiety and panic that the phone calls and police would bring. I

True. Although from Burke's interviews it seems like he was taking all this extremely well for a 9 year old. Too well, IMHO!

Which brings up another thing. Why would they not wake Burke to see if he was even alive. Burke could have been killed or seriously injured. Why would they not even wake him up to see if he might have seen who took JonBenet.

It's not like the had to shield Burke from a bloody body or crime scene when they allegedly found Jon Benet missing. There is nothing to shield Burke from. The only reason not to wake Burke is to prevent him from being witness to something he shouldn't see.

 

[elannia]

Exactly. Burke knew something thats why they got him outta there. He absolutely showed no remorse for his dead sister. Just because he was 9 years old he wasnt stupid. Kids are curious about everything.

 

[chlban]

True. Although from Burke's interviews it seems like he was taking all this extremely well for a 9 year old. Too well, IMHO!

Which brings up another thing. Why would they not wake Burke to see if he was even alive. Burke could have been killed or seriously injured. Why would they not even wake him up to see if he might have seen who took JonBenet.

It's not like the had to shield Burke from a bloody body or crime scene when they allegedly found Jon Benet missing. There is nothing to shield Burke from. The only reason not to wake Burke is to prevent him from being witness to something he shouldn't see.

Yes, this has always bothered me, along with many other things. Not only do they not know if he is hurt, how could you not ask if he heard something? He was on the same floor as JB (at least accorging to the R story). Again, I get wanting to shield a child, but not if your other child is missing. Wouldn't finding out if he knew something trump upsetting him in that situation?

 

[chlban]

There are just so many questions that make absolutely no sense in an IDI theory. IDI's want us to accept that hiring attorney's doesn't imply guilt. Neither does lying about Burke being awake, lying about reading to a sleeping child, not waking up the child that was supposedly sleeping on the same floor as the "missing" child, ignoring the warnings in the RN about contacting anyone, an Intruder taking the time to write that ridiculous RN to begin with.

Yeah could one or two of those things be explained away? Sure, but all of them? It just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[elannia]

This morning it must be the first time I’ve heard on some other threads that Kolar (who saw evidence and spoke to people in Boulder) made stuff up. We could bring in references from ST, or look at the True Bill, but that’s been done. So just for variety, and to support the FBI comments that the parents should be looked at, here’s the take of another bloke who was on the ground in Boulder in 1996 and living in Colorado when the TBs were released.

It is, imo, the number of “head scratcher” occurrences which lead some people to conclusions about the case. Even if one doesn’t reach the same deductions as this author, who’s an editor of a small local newspaper (it’s just his opinion), he seems to have a certain raw understanding about the overall picture of the JBR case. Not endorsing his thoughts, one way or the other. He was simply part of the general public, seeing the case from up close. (http://westernslopewatchdog.com/2013/10/editorial-i-know-who-killed-jonbenet-ramsey/)

“Let’s try to figure this out. The Ramsey’s say it was an intruder, but Patsy Ramsey wrote a note indicating that someone was trying to get ransom for JonBenet, who lay dead in their basement while this writing was going on. They couldn’t find their own daughter in their own house?

“JR supposedly came upon the scene by accident. `SNIP~ BR (the older brother) was hiding in his room and claiming he heard nothing.

“If you believe that someone came into the Ramsey household (no footsteps in the snow), and killed the only girl in the house instead of everybody and then left, leaving no evidence, then you are a fool.

“The crazy thing about this case is that the Boulder police and prosecutor became involved in the cover-up to clear the killer.”

Kolar wrote as a professional who saw evidence, redacting some information which is not available to the general public. The writer of this article just felt like throwing his conclusions out there, in a certain style of “opinionated glory.” Can’t fault him for that, can we? The sources RDI have long relied on – ST, Schiller, Kolar, the interviews with the Rs – just seem to be seen as so “dubious” by some, I thought a strictly opinion piece would offer some variety and might be appreciated here.
All jmho.

I have read kolar's book and was so upset that he didnt put in his scenario that he had sent out to others. I knew who he thought did it but wanted to know the events that took place

 

[elannia]

Hi. Thanks for the info. Its hard to navigate through here lol. I have been studying this case for awhile now and trying to figure out everything as in where to post and all. I would love to hear the 911 call with burke in it but cant find it anywhere

Otg you had mentioned hearing something in the beginning of the 911 call. Can you tell me what it was or send me a link. You had posted some stuff for me would it be on there?

 

[elannia]

(bbm)Welcome to WS, elannia. Nubes are are always welcome -- especially when they come with good questions and a sincere desire to understand how this tragedy happened.

About the bbm... There are threads where the 911 call is discussed in detail. When you feel at home here, you might want to explore some of the older threads. I'll give you my explanation of the meaning (others may disagree). First, you have to understand that for Burke to even ask the question on the 911 recording, he had to have been in the room despite earlier Ramsey denials of it. I believe his voice is not only heard at the end of the recording, but at the beginning as well. IF he knew about her death at that point, and IF the RN was staging created by either one of the Ramsey adults, he wouldn't know what a ransom note had to do with JonBenet's death. IF the parents didn't explain the details of what they were doing to protect him, he might think he'd wait until his mother hung up the phone (they thought) and ask about overhearing her tell the 911 operator that they found a ransom note. My understanding of the conversation (there are conflicting reports) revealed by Aerospace enhancement went something like this:

Burke: What did you find?
John: We're not speaking to you.
Burke: Well ( or "But") what did you find? (This would explain why some accounts say their was an emphasis on the word "did".)
​

I can give you file links so you can hear the recordings for yourself if you don't know where to find them.

Otg... sorry this is the quote I meant to post. You had said something about the beginning of the call

 

[Tawny]

PR and JR are pretty despicable but they may have simply been trying to protect a scared 9 year old child from anxiety and panic that the phone calls and police would bring. IMO I just don't see any way Burke was involved in this. He was just a child and JB was brutalized. He was tired and anticipating a Disney cruise, surely not thinking about demonizing his sister at midnight.

I don't think JB was intentionally brutalized while alive. I think BR was a 9 year old boy who was expressing curiosity and was unintentionally abusing (meaning he didn't know what he was doing was "abuse", even though he likely knew it was "wrong") his little sister. The head bash was very likely an accidental attack. Meaning he didn't intend to actually injure her, simply to, I don't know, quiet her or hurt her but not to that extent. All of the tying up and strangling, IMHO, was done after the initial attack that rendered JB motionless and like-dead. IMO, it was all staging after the head bash. JMO.

 

[Venom]

So lately, BDI and it was covered up has been my main theory. But PDI has been brought up in here with JR not knowing until maybe after he reads the RN.
Not many post about JDI. I'm just wondering if anyone has a JDI theory, or wants to talk about JDI. BDI and PDI have been the most talked about lately, I'd like to get some opinions on a JDI.

 

[Zzzz]

I thought the autopsy report said death was by asphyxiation. Which means all theories about an accidental or intentional head blow killing JB and the neck cord as a cover up are misguided. Intentional death by strangulation followed by a head bashing cover up is an entirely different thing. If I am wrong, please direct me to the correct autopsy report and I will stand corrected. Thank you

 

[otg]

Otg you had mentioned hearing something in the beginning of the 911 call. Can you tell me what it was or send me a link. You had posted some stuff for me would it be on there?

Here is the transcript of the beginning of the 911 call as reported in IRMI:

PR: (inaudible) police.
911: (inaudible)
PR: 755 Fifteenth Street
911: What is going on there, Ma’am?
PR: We have a kidnapping...Hurry, please
​

That’s two different people saying something “inaudible”. Listen first to the beginning of the recording here http://www.mediafire.com/listen/uoudcwjx9w3c2op/patsy911-FFJ_(2013_Cleanup).mp3 before reading the rest of this post or following any more of the links (in this post). See if you can understand what is said in the “inaudible” portions. (It’s important to listen before reading what I think is said so you aren’t influenced by anything other than your own thoughts.)

After you’ve listened to the beginning of the recording and tried to make out what is said, read this post from 11/10/13:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ARNING-GRAPHIC-CONTENT)&p=9965848#post9965848.

One more alteration I would make to my earlier transcript, and that was from the following post by CircuitGuy a few days after I had posted it:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?116882-911-Call&p=9976307#post9976307

I agree with him that the first word spoken was “one”, and I think it was Burke’s voice asking why they were calling 911. So my revised (in red) version of the beginning of the 911 call would be as follows:

BR: (Why are you calling nine one)...one?
911: 911 emergency... (interrupted)
PR: Hon’, we need (mumbled syllable)...
(pause) POLICE!
911: What’s going on... (interrupted)
PR: 755 Fifteenth Street!
911: What’s going on there, Ma’am?
PR: We had a kidnapping. Hurry, please.
​

There is a comparison of the first two words repeated for comparison here:
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/uchke1pmj8cha4w/One+-+Hon%27+Comparison.mp3#39;_Comparison.mp3

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't think JB was intentionally brutalized while alive. I think BR was a 9 year old boy who was expressing curiosity and was unintentionally abusing (meaning he didn't know what he was doing was "abuse", even though he likely knew it was "wrong") his little sister. The head bash was very likely an accidental attack. Meaning he didn't intend to actually injure her, simply to, I don't know, quiet her or hurt her but not to that extent. All of the tying up and strangling, IMHO, was done after the initial attack that rendered JB motionless and like-dead. IMO, it was all staging after the head bash. JMO.

I agree with one exception. I don't believe it was innocent curiosity. He had been caught before according to the housekeeper and his reaction was quite troubling IMO.

Patsy knew.

Yet it continued, as they allowed JonBenet to routinely crawl into his bed.

They likely blamed themselves, for not doing anything to protect her.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[otg]

I thought the autopsy report said death was by asphyxiation. Which means all theories about an accidental or intentional head blow killing JB and the neck cord as a cover up are misguided. Intentional death by strangulation followed by a head bashing cover up is an entirely different thing. If I am wrong, please direct me to the correct autopsy report and I will stand corrected. Thank you

(Keywords: bbm)

CLINICOPATHLOGIC CORRELATION: Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.


​

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/autopsy.html

 

[otg]

(rs & bbm)

He had been caught before according to the housekeeper and his reaction was quite troubling IMO.

Patsy knew.

Yet it continued, as they allowed JonBenet to routinely crawl into his bed.

They likely blamed themselves, for not doing anything to protect her.

So did the GJ (IMO). That would explain Count IV (a):

..."unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously, permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, ..."

​

(PS: WB, L7NJ.)

 

[bettybaby00]

(Keywords: bbm)

CLINICOPATHLOGIC CORRELATION: Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.







​

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/autopsy.html

Oh thank god, I couldn't find a text copy of this, only .jpgs I didn't want to have to type it out.

And in another thread someone (you <3 I think) offered the definition of her "craniocerebral trauma."

*shudders*

 

[Zzzz]

Thank you for the link. It is gruesome to read the autopsy report of this poor child. But I am still seeing death by strangulation.

 

[bettybaby00]

(rs & bbm)So did the GJ (IMO). That would explain Count IV (a):

..."unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously, permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, ..."

​

(PS: WB, L7NJ.)

Funny how in the Natl Inquire interview they claim:

They say it wasn't until Burke's 1999 grand jury testimony that they found out he was awake before police arrived -- but was pretending to be asleep.

"Yeah, he testified to that. We thought he was asleep but he wasn't," said John, who had told police their son slept through the tragedy.

Gotta wonder what else he testified about.

Grrrrr every time we bring up the GJ :gaah:

P.s. I second OTGs welcome back