RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

[Venom]

Patsy killed JonBenet deliberately. No one else was involved. There was no staging for police. Everything that was done was done by Patsy for Patsy as part of a psychotic fantasy revolving around an imagined relationship with a supernatural being, the fear of judgment by that God and the fear of death. What people mistakingly take as staging for police had symbolic meaning known only to Patsy. This includes the ransom note. There were two aspects to what was done to the body: the ligatures were suspension devices, the body was posed and viewed and then taken down, placed in the small room, wrapped and the duct tape applied to set the kidnapping scene up in Patsy's mind. The ransom note is full of the ideas that swirled in Patsy's mind that night and plagued her for many years.

The goal was not to kill JonBenet but to make an Angel out of her.

Patsy herself said after the funeral "JonBenet is in Heaven with God awaiting her mother's arrival and it won't be long." Patsy put JonBenet in that heaven to complete the fantasy and in her mind assure her life after death.

As the dedication in DOI says:

Wherever we go ...
Whatever we do ...
[We're gonna go through it together ...]

I got to be honest: it sounds a little far fetched. To me, this could be possible if PR wasn't of sound mind. (We've had the discussion if she was borderline personality) I'd like to know more about her mental health, there's no way to get that info though. But I can see this scenario before one of an intruder.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

There is quite a big grey area between what is considered mentall illness and what is accepted behavior. And this is subject to a society, a time and a place. It is not etched in stone. The symtoms of Patsy's condition are in that grey area. She had an above average IQ, above average education, was socially accomplished above what most people do and was creative.

The problem is the unsound mind can exist within the sound mind and when it expresses itself it is seen as an eccentric aspect of the sound mind until it goes too far and escapes on it's own. The transition period is often too short for people to recognize what is going on until it is too late. Then looking back people often say they recognize the symptoms.

 

[BOESP]

There was no "they".
Only Patsy was involved.
There was no staging for police.
Everything that was done was done by Patsy for Patsy.

BBM. With sincere interest in your answer, what evidence suggests the "for Patsy" part of your theory.

I agree with the rest of what you said although I think the staging was for the police as well as for John.

 

[Venom]

So, do you mean that PR did it as a kind of....sacrifice (for lack of a better word?)
In doing this, PR "thought" she would live in eternity with JB? Am I on the right track with your theory?
Would you say that PR had this planned?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

BBM. With sincere interest in your answer, what evidence suggests the "for Patsy" part of your theory.

I agree with the rest of what you said although I think the staging was for the police as well as for John.

Much of what was done is nonsensical and is attributed to panic, desperation, amateurism, randomness and/or meaninglessness. But that is from the perspective of a normally adapted mind looking at the acts of a psychotic. The investigators were normally adapted people looking at what they saw as normally adapted people in a desperate situation due to an accident as if the only choice was between a criminal and a normal. They assumed the r n was for them, it wasn't. They missed the other option: a creative act by a psychotic.

The disjointed assemblage of evidence actually has the continuum and continuity of a dream, not rational thought driven to distraction by desperate circumstances.

What doesn't make sense to the normal makes sense to the psychotic who is lost in a dream.

This crime WAS an inside job: inside Patsy's mind.

What ties the disjointed evidence together is literature. From the r n itself to the Bible to the dictionary to the other books in the house with content similar to aspects of the case. John and Patsy share some of those reading interests but some aspects of the case point to Patsy's reading and not John's; those of Muriel Spark.

The source of the pineapple found in JonBenet's proximal intestine was probably the "set up" as Patsy called it: the bowl with pineapple and milk or cream with the spoon next to a glass with a teabag. That "set up" was probably put together before JonBenet died and that "set up" matches a scene in The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie;

"Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to TEA at Sandy's house. The speciality of the feast was PINEAPPLE CUBES WITH CREAM, and the speciality of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar PINEAPPLE had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up in her SPOON, and she ... Both girls saved the CREAM to the last, then ate it in SPOONFULS

If crime books and movies were used by two people as source material to cover up an accident why was a scene from a book put together BEFORE the accident?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

So, do you mean that PR did it as a kind of....sacrifice (for lack of a better word?)
In doing this, PR "thought" she would live in eternity with JB? Am I on the right track with your theory?
Would you say that PR had this planned?

Technically it was a sacrifice.

Replace "thought" with fantasized.

"Plan" does not describe the mental process adequately. Again there is a difference between normal and psychotic mental processes.

Patsy was subject to compulsive thoughts which were assembled with pre-existing material found in literature.

 

[SapphireSteel]

John's behaviour on the day (and since) tells me he was complicit.

He actually jumped in his car and went out and got the mail, right when everyone was waiting with baited breath for the "kidnapper" to call. He was gone for about an hour IIRC...not a care in the world.

Or was he out dumping evidence? We'll never know. I bet the trash at his workplace was never searched.

:sick:

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

John's behaviour on the day (and since) tells me he was complicit.

He actually jumped in his car and went out and got the mail, right when everyone was waiting with baited breath for the "kidnapper" to call. He was gone for about an hour IIRC...not a care in the world.

Or was he out dumping evidence? We'll never know. I bet the trash at his workplace was never searched.

:sick:

You should really read about the case before posting.

Detective Arndt could not account for John Ramsey untill about noon. She found him reading some correspondence, and she incorrectly assumed he had stepped out to get his mail. She was unaware that the house did not have an exterior mail box and that the mail came in through the front door. - JonBenet Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation

 

[BOESP]

Much of what was done is nonsensical and is attributed to panic, desperation, amateurism, randomness and/or meaninglessness. But that is from the perspective of a normally adapted mind looking at the acts of a psychotic. The investigators were normally adapted people looking at what they saw as normally adapted people in a desperate situation due to an accident as if the only choice was between a criminal and a normal. They assumed the r n was for them, it wasn't. They missed the other option: a creative act by a psychotic.

The disjointed assemblage of evidence actually has the continuum and continuity of a dream, not rational thought driven to distraction by desperate circumstances.

What doesn't make sense to the normal makes sense to the psychotic who is lost in a dream.

This crime WAS an inside job: inside Patsy's mind.

What ties the disjointed evidence together is literature. From the r n itself to the Bible to the dictionary to the other books in the house with content similar to aspects of the case. John and Patsy share some of those reading interests but some aspects of the case point to Patsy's reading and not John's; those of Muriel Spark.

The source of the pineapple found in JonBenet's proximal intestine was probably the "set up" as Patsy called it: the bowl with pineapple and milk or cream with the spoon next to a glass with a teabag. That "set up" was probably put together before JonBenet died and that "set up" matches a scene in The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie;

"Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to TEA at Sandy's house. The speciality of the feast was PINEAPPLE CUBES WITH CREAM, and the speciality of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar PINEAPPLE had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up in her SPOON, and she ... Both girls saved the CREAM to the last, then ate it in SPOONFULS

If crime books and movies were used by two people as source material to cover up an accident why was a scene from a book put together BEFORE the accident?

Okay, thanks BB. Now I see what you are saying and I appreciate the thorough response.

Imo (and we all have one :facepalm it was an accidental death caused by wonton recklessness that resulted in JonBenet's death and Patsy covered it up because she did not want anyone, not even John, to know what she had done.

What triggered the reckless behavior is where I still sit on the fence.

 

[SapphireSteel]

You should really read about the case before posting.

Detective Arndt could not account for John Ramsey untill about noon. She found him reading some correspondence, and she incorrectly assumed he had stepped out to get his mail. She was unaware that the house did not have an exterior mail box and that the mail came in through the front door. - JonBenet Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation

Perhaps you should take your own advice re. reading about the case...

She "lost sight of him" from 10.40 until midday.

Therefore, there is no confirmation that this allegation is false. The mail part was an assumption (which we do not actually know was erroneous) and it doesn't really matter one way or another. The fact is,

No one knew where he was, for over an hour.

24 Q. And didn't you indicate that it was
25 sometime between 10:40 and 12:00 noon that John Ramsey left to pick up his mail or that you lost track of him..but later saw him reading the mail and assumed he had
3 left to pick up the mail during that period you had
4 lost track of him?
5 A. It has been widely reported that -
6 Q. I'm not talking about widely reported. I'm
7 talking about what you know.
8 A. What I know? Okay. Ask me again then.
9 Q. I'll ask you again. Isn't it your
10 recollection that it was between 10:40 and 12:00 noon
11 that you lost track of John Ramsey, and when you later
12 saw him opening mail you assumed he had gone out to get
13 the mail during that period you had lost track of him?
14 A. As I told you when you asked before, I
15 didn't personally watch him every minute from about
16 10:40 until noon.
17 Q. Would you read back the question?
18 (Record read by reporter as requested.)
19 THE DEPONENT: I'm sorry. What did I not
20 answer?
21 Q. (BY MR. HALABY) Are you stating that you
22 never lost track of him during that period?
23 A. I think I just told you that I personally
24 couldn't account for every minute.
25 Does that mean that you lost track of him
1 then?
2 A. You could interpret it that way.
3 Q. All right. And during that period that you
4 lost track of him, did you later conclude what he had
5 done during that period in terms of going to pick up
6 the mail?
7 A. When I didn't personally monitor him the whole time, what was the other half?
9 Q. Did you conclude that during that period
10 you'd lost track of him that he had gone out to pick up
11 the mail?
12 A. When I didn't personally monitor him, I
13 didn't know how he had gotten his mail.
14 Q. And did you then put two and two together
15 and believe that he had gone out to get the mail?
16 A. I thought he had gotten mail by stepping
17 outside.
18 Q. You didn't believe somebody else had picked
19 up the mail and delivered it to him inside the house?
20 A. I didn't know.
21 Q. But what you had concluded was that he had
22 gone out to get the mail, correct?
23 A. I thought he had got - yes.

http://www.acandyrose.com/03182000-arndtdepo-04102000.htm

It is false to state John did not leave. No one knows where he went. It is quite obvious he went somewhere, to pick up mail or not.

Where did he go? WHY did he go? Wouldn't you stay right beside LE if you were waiting for a kidnapper to call?

:cow:

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Imo it was an accidental death caused by wonton recklessness that resulted in JonBenet's death and Patsy covered it up.

What evidence do you have of that?

 

[Chelly]

Perhaps you should take your own advice re. reading about the case...

She "lost sight of him" from 10.40 until midday.

Therefore, there is no confirmation that this allegation is false. The mail part was an assumption (which we do not actually know was erroneous) and it doesn't really matter one way or another. The fact is,

No one knew where he was, for over an hour.

24 Q. And didn't you indicate that it was
25 sometime between 10:40 and 12:00 noon that John Ramsey left to pick up his mail or that you lost track of him..but later saw him reading the mail and assumed he had
3 left to pick up the mail during that period you had
4 lost track of him?
5 A. It has been widely reported that -
6 Q. I'm not talking about widely reported. I'm
7 talking about what you know.
8 A. What I know? Okay. Ask me again then.
9 Q. I'll ask you again. Isn't it your
10 recollection that it was between 10:40 and 12:00 noon
11 that you lost track of John Ramsey, and when you later
12 saw him opening mail you assumed he had gone out to get
13 the mail during that period you had lost track of him?
14 A. As I told you when you asked before, I
15 didn't personally watch him every minute from about
16 10:40 until noon.
17 Q. Would you read back the question?
18 (Record read by reporter as requested.)
19 THE DEPONENT: I'm sorry. What did I not
20 answer?
21 Q. (BY MR. HALABY) Are you stating that you
22 never lost track of him during that period?
23 A. I think I just told you that I personally
24 couldn't account for every minute.
25 Does that mean that you lost track of him
1 then?
2 A. You could interpret it that way.
3 Q. All right. And during that period that you
4 lost track of him, did you later conclude what he had
5 done during that period in terms of going to pick up
6 the mail?
7 A. When I didn't personally monitor him the whole time, what was the other half?
9 Q. Did you conclude that during that period
10 you'd lost track of him that he had gone out to pick up
11 the mail?
12 A. When I didn't personally monitor him, I
13 didn't know how he had gotten his mail.
14 Q. And did you then put two and two together
15 and believe that he had gone out to get the mail?
16 A. I thought he had gotten mail by stepping
17 outside.
18 Q. You didn't believe somebody else had picked
19 up the mail and delivered it to him inside the house?
20 A. I didn't know.
21 Q. But what you had concluded was that he had
22 gone out to get the mail, correct?
23 A. I thought he had got - yes.

http://www.acandyrose.com/03182000-arndtdepo-04102000.htm

It is false to state John did not leave. No one knows where he went. It is quite obvious he went somewhere, to pick up mail or not.

Where did he go? WHY did he go? Wouldn't you stay right beside LE if you were waiting for a kidnapper to call?

:cow:

Perhaps there were some items that required disposal in the trash cans located in the alleys between the houses.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I could see this happening, but why wouldn't Patsy confess? Yes, she caused the death of JB, but it was accidental and in the heat of the moment.
If she was scared or had been convinced to lie about it all, I also couldn't imagine staying with perv John all those years later. She would have been able to get a decent settlement, so fearing poverty would not have been a factor.

Status, social standing, gimcrackery facade.

Patsy's whole life was a showy veneer and not even JB's death would make her reveal the grotesque underside of her "perfect" life.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

He actually jumped in his car and went out and got the mail,

:floorlaugh:

 

[FrayedKnot]

Perhaps there were some items that required disposal in the trash cans located in the alleys between the houses.

And since when does the USPS deliver Christmas Day? Unless the mail for Thursday the 26th had already been delivered and then.....oh WTF, it doesn't matter! Who would be concerned about the freaking MAIL? Or calling my private pilot to get me outta town when my baby girl is "missing". No. Just no.

 

[BOESP]

What evidence do you have of that?

If you don't mind, just look over my posts for the last two weeks. I think I've covered most, if not all, of it. Just click BOESP, got to my PROFILE, click STATISTICS, then click "FIND ALL POSTS."

 

[BOESP]

And since when does the USPS deliver Christmas Day? Unless the mail for Thursday the 26th had already been delivered and then.....oh WTF, it doesn't matter! Who would be concerned about the freaking MAIL? Or calling my private pilot to get me outta town when my baby girl is "missing". No. Just no.

BBM. Iirc, Mr. Ramsey stated that he thought the kidnapper might try to contact them through the mail slot or the mail. Now think about that ... :seeya:

 

[Venom]

BBM. Iirc, Mr. Ramsey stated that he thought the kidnapper might try to contact them through the mail slot or the mail. Now think about that ... :seeya:

:facepalm: The kidnapper is going to walk right up and slip a letter through the slot. Oh my.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

If you don't mind, just look over my posts for the last two weeks. I think I've covered most, if not all, of it. Just click BOESP, got to my PROFILE, click STATISTICS, then click "FIND ALL POSTS."

If you don't mind just pick your best piece of evidence and post it. If you don't mind. And if you are proud of it you won't mind posting it again.

 

[BOESP]

:facepalm: The kidnapper is going to walk right up and slip a letter through the slot. Oh my.

Yep.

Or maybe the Kidnapper mailed a letter earlier in the week, hoping that it would arrive exactly on the 26th, because if it didn't his plan would be foiled. The mail is so dependable the week of Christmas he probably thought it would be worth the risk. :wink: