Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 1/15 thru 1/20 Break

[Madeleine74]

I completely respect the opinion that spankings are against a given parent's beliefs but grow weary of so much opinion that those who were spanked only survived by the skin of their teeth. I was spanked and I am fine. I learned obedience and respect. I learned that if I lied I'd better be better at it than my parents were at busting me. Jodie should have been spanked everyday and twice on Sunday. She should have had her hair pulled with every lie. Some kids are disclipined with spankings and turn out fine. I did. It might not have helped Jodie but I doubt it would have hurt her. MOO JMO ect

No one here who was spanked as a kid has claimed they only survived by the skin of their teeth. That's great that you have no emotional scars from any spankings you received. Spanking is physical violence, whether people choose to acknowledge it or not. You learned fear, as did I or anyone who was spanked. You learned you would be physically touched in a negative and painful way if you didn't do as you were told or did something you shouldn't have done. And it's not just physical pain, it's also humiliating for a child.

Yes, fear sure can be a great motivator, but it's not a very good teacher, and it has nothing to do with respect at all. Respect is earned, not demanded, and not threatened. One can feign what appears to an unenlightened adult as 'respect,' which is really obedience obtained through coersion and fear. A lot of parents don't care how they obtain compliance and obedience, certainly not in the generation when I was a kid. Parents were fairly clueless back then and did not have much guidance into other ways of dealing with an errant child. Their parents probably spanked them. It's a cycle that repeats (hey, just like abuse repeats).

No, just because Jodi is a murderer today does not mean she should have been hit, beaten, spanked or anything else violent when she was a child. Hitting doesn't cure BPD or other personality disorders, which she surely had way back then. She has no excuse for murdering Travis, but violence solves nothing and doesn't change a disordered person into a mentally healthy person.

 

[Luvrosco]

M

Well, my dad didn't just spank like I said. He hit us very, very hard. With hands and with a belt. I remember him leaving a welt after sipping me with an electrical wire. My mom used to hit me and my siblings and throw things like shoes and hair brushed at us. My step dad wasn't just trying to discipline is he was trying to hurt us. You don't have to believe me. But perhaps that's why I'm so adverse to it, I wasn't sparked right. Still, it doesn't bother me when parents spank their kids if they think that's the right way and if the kids turn out fine. But I didn't turn out fine. There was a lot of abuse, physical and emotional, in my childhood. So I don't want to do anything that might seem like abuse to my child. I don't spank her and she's doing fine and I love her very much.

We all have our own paths.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that in childhood. And yet you didn't brutally murder someone. She has no excuse and I hope the jury realizes that.

 

[MeeBee]

M
I'm sorry you had to deal with that in childhood. And yet you didn't brutally murder someone. She has no excuse and I hope the jury realizes that.

I never said it was an excuse at all! In fact it's why I take great exception to ALV's notion that those who are abused as kids will go on to be abusiveas adults or Jodi using her relatively easy upbringing as an excuse for what she did. Abuse can leave different scares in everyone and I guess that statistically ALV may have been right. It is amazing though that in Jodi it's an excuse to justify her actions and in Travis it's used as proof that he was an abusive jerk.

 

[mydirtysecret]

Recent psychological studies have shown there is no correlation between being maltreatment or abused as a child and becoming an abuser. I so wanted dr demarte or haynes to point out this very old myth ALV perpetuated on Travis the true victim in every sense of the word. In the 70s and early 80s it was commonly accepted amongst psychologist that abused children grow up to become the abuser. We now know with better research this is factually untrue. When alv was testifying I noted that A lot of ALVs views, hypothesis were just outdated.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Well, my dad didn't just spank like I said. He hit us very, very hard. With hands and with a belt. I remember him leaving a welt after hitting me with an electrical wire. My mom used to hit me and my siblings and throw things like shoes and hair brushes at us. My step dad wasn't just trying to discipline is he was trying to hurt us. You don't have to believe me. But perhaps that's why I'm so adverse to it, I wasn't spanked right. Still, it doesn't bother me when parents spank their kids if they think that's the right way and if the kids turn out fine. But I didn't turn out fine. There was a lot of abuse, physical and emotional, in my childhood. So I don't want to do anything that might seem like abuse to my child. I don't spank her and she's doing fine and I love her very much.

We all have our own paths.

MeeBee, what you experienced was physical abuse and I am so sorry. I was spanked twice and deserved it and remember it because I never did those things again and I was very much loved and never abused.

 

[Madeleine74]

Recent psychological studies have shown there is no correlation between being maltreatment or abused as a child and becoming an abuser. I so wanted dr demarte or haynes to point out this very old myth ALV perpetuated on Travis the true victim in every sense of the word. In the 70s and early 80s it was commonly accepted amongst psychologist that abused children grow up to become the abuser. We now know with better research this is factually untrue. When alv was testifying I noted that A lot of ALVs views, hypothesis were just outdated.

Can you please provide a link to those recent studies that prove this?

This is the first time I'm hearing of no correlation. In fact that is contrary to hundreds of other studies that have been done.

Here's one article discussing the cycle of violence. And here's another article discussing how hitting children might increase the risk of mental illnesses.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Recent psychological studies have shown there is no correlation between being maltreatment or abused as a child and becoming an abuser. I so wanted dr demarte or haynes to point out this very old myth ALV perpetuated on Travis the true victim in every sense of the word. In the 70s and early 80s it was commonly accepted amongst psychologist that abused children grow up to become the abuser. We now know with better research this is factually untrue. When alv was testifying I noted that A lot of ALVs views, hypothesis were just outdated.

Thanks. About time an accurate study comes out.

 

[mydirtysecret]

sure, let me dig out my textbooks I'll cite the studies. I'm a nursing major and this myth is actually discussed in psych 101 on the very first day, and goes further in the lifespan of human development classes.

 

[Love Never Fails]

No one here who was spanked as a kid has claimed they only survived by the skin of their teeth. That's great that you have no emotional scars from any spankings you received. Spanking is physical violence, whether people choose to acknowledge it or not. You learned fear, as did I or anyone who was spanked. You learned you would be physically touched in a negative and painful way if you didn't do as you were told or did something you shouldn't have done. And it's not just physical pain, it's also humiliating for a child.

Yes, fear sure can be a great motivator, but it's not a very good teacher, and it has nothing to do with respect at all. Respect is earned, not demanded, and not threatened. One can feign what appears to an unenlightened adult as 'respect,' which is really obedience obtained through coersion and fear. A lot of parents don't care how they obtain compliance and obedience, certainly not in the generation when I was a kid. Parents were fairly clueless back then and did not have much guidance into other ways of dealing with an errant child. Their parents probably spanked them. It's a cycle that repeats (hey, just like abuse repeats).

No, just because Jodi is a murderer today does not mean she should have been hit, beaten, spanked or anything else violent when she was a child. Hitting doesn't cure BPD or other personality disorders, which she surely had way back then. She has no excuse for murdering Travis, but violence solves nothing and doesn't change a disordered person into a mentally healthy person.

Spanking is NOT violence. Lol. Throwing something at you, grabbing you and throwing you down stairs, burning you...thats physical violence. I used to work for the child protective services and I can tell you horror stories of kids who were abused but I won't because you cannot forget those things. Spanking by a parent that loves you is NOT abuse, nor is it violent. So we can all agree to disagree.

 

[Love Never Fails]

sure, let me dig out my textbooks I'll cite the studies. I'm a nursing major and this myth is actually discussed in psych 101 on the very first day, and goes further in the lifespan of human development classes.

It is a total myth.

 

[peedoffinny]

LOL. I remember when I was young, my neighbors were Italian and the mother would chase the boys outside around the house with a wooden spoon.

 

[Madeleine74]

Spanking is NOT violence. Lol. Throwing something at you, grabbing you and throwing you down stairs, burning you...thats physical violence. I used to work for the child protective services and I can tell you horror stories of kids who were abused but I won't because you cannot forget those things. Spanking by a parent that loves you is NOT abuse, nor is it violent. So we can all agree to disagree.

Spanking is violence. The striking of another person to cause pain is the definition of violence. It is not usually considered child abuse.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I completely respect the opinion that spankings are against a given parent's beliefs but grow weary of so much opinion that those who were spanked only survived by the skin of their teeth. I was spanked and I am fine. I learned obedience and respect. I learned that if I lied I'd better be better at it than my parents were at busting me. Jodie should have been spanked everyday and twice on Sunday. She should have had her hair pulled with every lie. Some kids are disclipined with spankings and turn out fine. I did. It might not have helped Jodie but I doubt it would have hurt her. MOO JMO ect

Thank you. That's two of us.

 

[Renee110]

I wondered where she's been hiding LOL. Hopefully her feelings about JA's "remorse" are shared by the others on the panel. What I found interesting is that juror 3 indicates that it sounds good on paper but most everyone here indicates that it does not. I think that is because everyone here can almost hear the way JA would be saying these things in their head when they read it because they know her so well. Sounds like the perception of the cold, unemotional and nonchalant manner of speaking that JA seems to have when talking about this crime was evident to juror 3 as well?

MOO

BBM:

I am a little skeptical of this juror. I listened to her interview with Trial Talk Live before it came out that she was booted for lying to get on the jury, or had bounced checks or whatever the deal was, and she said that since was booted she was reseaching everything she could and watching the guilty phase. THAT alone would taint the view she held previous to being able to research the case. If these jurors are truly adhering to the admonition and they only know what has been shown to them in court, I just don't see how anything makes sense to them. Yep I can picture and hear JA speaking so softly and timidly and my fear is that the jury sees a meek mouse that just went crazy one day. That third juror is another one like Jodi that speaks well when she wants to and another one that tries to sound smarter and better educated than she is. I wouldn't hold her up as a yardstick to measure how the rest of the jurors are perceiving JA. JMO of course!

 

[T-4-2]

snip

My favorite moment...

Sorry to snip so much. It's all great and I absolutely agree with your entire post.

I think I know why Samuels didn't have to ask for bathroom breaks like ALV. He must have left quite a puddle on the witness stand.

Samuels is a fool, obviously. I really blame Willmott and Nurmi for his catastrophic testimony more than I blame him. Same for ALV. W&N know Juan Martinez. They know he does not ask softball questions, allow witnesses to give vague, BS, non-responsive answers. They know he can sniff a fraud from a mile away. They know he never says to a witness, "Well okey-dokey then, thanks for stopping by." He doesn't even say that to his own witnesses! And above all they know he never ever comes to court without knowing precisely how to impeach or obliterate a defense witness. And he doesn't need a script to do it.

Willmott and Nurmi must have come into this trial thinking, "Maybe he won't notice this, or ask this, or make a big deal about this, and maybe just this once he'll be laid-back and accept whatever BS, no matter how blatant, no matter how absurd, that any witness offers up, whether or not they're a buffoon, a weasel, or a psychopathic murderer."

I wish I had some of whatever they were smoking.

It took me about ten seconds to find this online and maybe a minute to read it:

http://www.crossexam.com/impeaching-an-expert-witness.html

Honestly I think I am now better prepared for cross examination than Samuels was. Or ALV. Or Geffner. Etc, etc.

 

[bsk]

snip


Sorry to snip so much. It's all great and I absolutely agree with your entire post.

I think I know why Samuels didn't have to ask for bathroom breaks like ALV. He must have left quite a puddle on the witness stand.

Samuels is a fool, obviously. I really blame Willmott and Nurmi for his catastrophic testimony more than I blame him. Same for ALV. W&N know Juan Martinez. They know he does not ask softball questions, allow witnesses to give vague, BS, non-responsive answers. They know he can sniff a fraud from a mile away. They know he never says to a witness, "Well okey-dokey then, thanks for stopping by." He doesn't even say that to his own witnesses! And above all they know he never ever comes to court without knowing precisely how to impeach or obliterate a defense witness. And he doesn't need a script to do it.

Willmott and Nurmi must have come into this trial thinking, "Maybe he won't notice this, or ask this, or make a big deal about this, and maybe just this once he'll be laid-back and accept whatever BS, no matter how blatant, no matter how absurd, that any witness offers up, whether or not they're a buffoon, a weasel, or a psychopathic murderer."

I wish I had some of whatever they were smoking.

It took me about ten seconds to find this online and maybe a minute to read it:

http://www.crossexam.com/impeaching-an-expert-witness.html

Honestly I think I am now better prepared for cross examination than Samuels was. Or ALV. Or Geffner. Etc, etc.

It's hard to say which is more pathetic - how poorly the DT prepared their witnesses or how ridiculous it was that they thought they could show that they were smarter than DeMarte and Hayes.

 

[Madeleine74]

Well, walk up to a stranger on the street and give them a spanking. What do you think will happen?

Ha! I was thinking the exact same thing, Franquerolane.

Violence is along a spectrum. Spanking is a form of violence. Corporeal punishment is legal as long as it follows certain guidelines, but yes, it is a form of violence, by definition.

 

[daisydomino]

Whether or not we were spanked as children, I'm glad we can all agree that in JA's case, whatever did (or did not) happen to her as a child doesn't in any way mitigate stabbing, slashing and shooting someone she claimed to love.

I'm adding spanking to the number of topics that should probably not be discussed with online friends. I'm not going to mention the Hitler spoof video.

 

[LambChop]

Stop the circular argument about spanking. Let it go and move on. This is the retrial thread so please stay on topic.
Thanks, Lambchop

 

[franquerolane]

Could someone refresh my memory about one of his roomates saying he stayed up all night on June 3rd because he was afraid?