SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #13

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  • #641
"It's also unclear why the name of Maggie's sister, Marian Proctor, was crossed out in pen in her will as the person Maggie chose to handle her estate, The Island Packet reports."

"According to the paper, Maggie's sister's name was crossed out and replaced in handwriting with the name of Alex's father, renowned attorney Randolph Murdaugh III."

"He died three days after Maggie and Paul were killed."

 
  • #642
Re: recent comments re: whether or not AM said something about PM during the 911 call (the supposed "Paul, why did you have to get involved" type comment)....

There was a lot of speculation about that when the 911 call was originally released. At the time, I listened repeatedly and never heard anything like that. (I am not the only one who could not hear/notice the supposed statement.)

I don't think that the released tapes, which were published by various media sources at the time, could have all been pulled back, edited to "delete" the supposed statement, then re-released. (I am saying that in response to recent discussion of the issue.)

MOO.
 
  • #643
I think the running car may be explained by MM thinking AM was arriving soon and she was going to be in her car ready to follow him icer to hospital. She was, according to that texting with a friend, a bit uneasy about meeting up with AM that night. Maybe when MM pulled in she saw unexpectedly that PM was at the kennels and walked over to say hi?
I think along these lines also.
 
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  • #644
  • #645
  • #646
Please correct my mistakes as i stumble through my confusion.

PM worked for his Uncle that day, but did not have dinner there.

Do we know when he arrived at Moselle?

MM arrived at 7:30pm.

PM was making a video that caught his two -arents arguing, shortly before his death around 9:30pm.

MM was also killed around 9:30pm.

Her car was found with the ignition running.

So the mystery is in those two hours between her arrival and their murders. Did she drive PM to the kennels because it was raining and then AM showed up? Would she have waited that long for him to show up…for this fishy trip to the hospital an hour away? Was she planning on staying the night at Moselle and leaving in the morning? Then she could just head back to Edisto from the hospital. Was PM staying the night with Mom?
IIRC PM drove his uncle's truck after having dinner with him at 6pm and was supposed to drive it back the next morning. I think it is the Silverado found with the SUV that was impounded. I think the SUV was AM's.
MM drove a Mercedes and it is likely in my opinion that she used the entrance close to the kennels, saw AM's SUV got out and left the car running thinking they would be leaving for the hospital shortly. But all hades broke loose. MY OPINION.

What I can't get my head around is why she just didn't call and find out where her FIL was in which hospital and meet AM there. Did he have so much control over her she blindly obeyed?

This is all my humble opinion.
 
  • #647
Weather records say Hampden Lake at 7:30 pm was hazy 80 degrees,77 degrees dewpoint and 89% humidity.
Lord Occam might say Maggie left the car running to keep the air conditioning running.
 
  • #648
DBM
 
  • #649
Weather records say Hampden Lake at 7:30 pm was hazy 80 degrees,77 degrees dewpoint and 89% humidity.
Lord Occam might say Maggie left the car running to keep the air conditioning running.
Wouldn't Lord Occam figure if that was the reason, she would close the door to keep the cool air in the car? lol
 
  • #650
Do we know it was found that way or is that what told them?

Don’t know what to think about that, AM there for 20 or so minutes and it could be raining and he leaves it open and running, yet after shooting the two of them he is asked not to touch the bodies and he says he already did, checking for vitals.

Jmo

If true he killed them then was checking ti make sure they were dead.

Jmo
 
  • #651
Wouldn't Lord Occam figure if that was the reason, she would close the door to keep the cool air in the car? lol
The door was not open.
 
  • #652
"It's also unclear why the name of Maggie's sister, Marian Proctor, was crossed out in pen in her will as the person Maggie chose to handle her estate, The Island Packet reports."

"According to the paper, Maggie's sister's name was crossed out and replaced in handwriting with the name of Alex's father, renowned attorney Randolph Murdaugh III."

"He died three days after Maggie and Paul were killed."


Amazing coincidence, isn't it?
 
  • #653
People Magazine (Aug 1 issue): “Police theorize Alex lured Maggie to this shed in a remote corner of their Hampton, SC property, unaware that Paul was at the adjacent kennels.”
Including picture from the magazine as well as a great picture from the realty website showing the point-of-view from the shed to the kennels.
53FDA1B5-E58D-405C-8C78-DC023015FDB2.jpeg
427F65B7-FA13-4B72-B427-6B9F42C09091.jpeg
 
  • #654
Wouldn't Lord Occam figure if that was the reason, she would close the door to keep the cool air in the car? lol
Mary B says door was not open.
Also Lord Occam didn't have a car.
 
  • #655
Thanks for that reference. It's helpful to know the locals have used the "Boss Hogg" reference and shared that history in the news media.

As a genealogist, I've studied that area a little. Several of my ancestors came through "Carolina" during pre-Colonial and Colonial times. The Europeans who migrated there back then were called Cavaliers and they brought their own unique culture, different from the English settlers in New England. The Pilgrim Fathers cast off the old traditions of England and created their own. The Cavaliers who settled the Carolinas and Virginia embraced English custom and kept it.

Interesting stuff to study, if you like genealogy and history. Their legal and court systems are slightly different, too. It might help understand things going forward.



ETA: I think this material is also relevant in this case due to the long family history of the Murdaugh and other local families and their active involvement in the criminal justice system for so many generations.
^^BBM
I agree @Betty P and thanks for the link. It could all factor in the court, jury, and even the media. MOO
 
  • #656
Yes I know this is the Daily Mail. I only bring attention to it because I've never recalled hearing any talk (except by Harpootlian to deny existence of any life insurance policies) of MM or PM having insurance. Interesting that it was stated back in Oct 2021 that combined MM and PM had policies totaling $10 million.

Could insurance money have been the reason for MM's murder? I don't believe PM was originally a target like MM but an unplanned AJMO

"Just one week before this bizarre incident [ the botched "suicide" ], according to the source, 'Buster and Alex were talking about the fact that the life insurance wasn't paying out on Maggie or Paul. My understanding was that there was a $6million policy on her and $4million on him.'

Murdaugh's attorney Dick Harpootlian has denied the existence of any such policies.

The source maintained, 'Alex was talking to Buster about it and told him that soon he 'wouldn't have to worry about any of that.'

'That was about one week before he got shot in that shooting, he supposedly staged to get his own life insurance."

Actually, I can agree with both here -- attorney Harpootlian denying the existence of specific life policies on MM and PM and also that life insurance was a motivator for the murders of each. In other words, this insurance would have been kind of like a bonus for AM.

IMO, the subject insurance is probably the same $10M policy on AM reported after his botched drive-by/suicide where AM was the named policyholder (and Buster, the then, beneficiary). When the policy was first written, AM likely allocated percentages of the coverage to his wife and children (first to die) where the policyholder benefits at their (premature) deaths. These high-value life policies typically originate as employee benefits.

I recall the same happened when Chris Watts murdered his wife and two children. As an employee of Anadarko, he was the named insured of a $500K death policy and his wife was the named beneficiary at his death. However, Watts also opted to designate percentages of his $500K policy to cover his spouse and children (the his beneficiaries) should they die before him.

In Watts's case, similar to Murdaugh, it was technically correct when Watts's lawyers denied he took out life insurance on his pre-school children and spouse -- especially when all wanted to know who sells $250K policies for 3 & 4-year-olds. JMO
 
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  • #657
I am still stuck on the timing and the running car. Now I’ll add the weather.

Wasn’t it raining? Was it raining steadily that night? More importantly, was it raining at the time the coroner says the murders took place?

What would cause MM to leap out of her car, leaving ot running, to argue with AM in the rain. Was he threatening to kill himself…and that was a ruse to kill her?

If Paul is inside one of the kennels…were his parents arguing out in the rain? They had to be close enough that the phone picked up their voices.

I’d love to know the direction the car was facing…like it was entering or exiting.

Having several loaded guns available doesn’t surprise me. Even where I live we have bear, wild hogs, coyotes, snakes etc. And I don’t like at a dedicated hunting lodge. I just think AM was experienced enough to grab what he needed. I still believe, at the moment and opinion only…that MM was shot first and PM grabbed a gun to protect himself, or his Mother…and AM took that gun away from him. In the process, PM was shot. I am guessing that AM then made a grand tour around the carnage and finished everyone off.
I would like to know whether MM ever made it to the hospital to see her FIL. That would shed so much light on the differing timelines.

Facts we know:

AM lured MM to Moselle and is said to have had the AR at the ready.:
Did he plan to just kill her when she arrived or try to talk her into dropping the audit and divorce first?

DH said MM and PM had no life insurance. Was it ever reported if they did or not? I could have missed it but I don't recall reading where they did. (Maybe OP's will help me out here if they have a link to information on MM's life insurance or lack thereof.) If MM had life insurance was this a case of AM wanting to stop the audit or just a murder for a big life insurance payout. We should remember that "suicide/murder for hire" side of the road stunt AM pulled. He stated at the time his life insurance would not pay off in the case of suicide so he hired cousin Eddie to make it look like murder. Was MM's policy excluding suicide also? Maybe some OP's who know more about life insurance can weigh in here, but my life insurance policy has a 2 year exclusion for suicide. So was AM and MM's (assuming she had any) policies fairly new?

Frankly I did not see the money in the bank accounts (58.00+16.00+8000.00 which are very small accounts to have as liquid cash on hand) to pay long term for a 10 million dollar life insurance on AM let alone one for MM. (of course my premiums are higher because I am 3 days older than dirt but still a 10 million dollar policy on a 52 year old woman or man would carry very substantial premiums unless it was AD&D.) The question of the life insurance policies on MM would go a long way in determining what AM's plans were concerning MM that night.

Also all the real property plus a share of PMPED was in MM's name alone. I am not sure what SC law is concerning that in a divorce but OK law is any property acquired after marriage, even if in one party's name alone is community property and must be split 50/50 and sold in a divorce. Any property acquired before marriage remains with whoever had it before the marriage. Moselle's deed was changed to MM's name in 2015 after the marriage. I haven't read any information about when the deed to other real property came to be in MM's name alone. But at any rate if it was after the marriage would it all have been community property and therefore a 50/50 split. Did AM see when MM wouldn't budge off that divorce a 50/50 split causing all real property to be sold and mortgages and other debts having to be paid off?

Then you have the proven fact most abused spouses are killed in the first year after they leave their abuser. Plus SC's divorce law where you have to live apart for a year before you can file for a divorce. MM and AM were coming up on that one year deadline. Did this factor in? Did AM finally realize that MM was not coming back to him?

Or did it have more to do with his father being close to dying? Did RM III leave MM power of attorney over AM's inheritance? It has been said RM III and MM were close and RM III had to know about his son's long term drug habit. So did he try to control AM from the grave by leaving MM in charge of AM's inheritance?

MM is said to arrive at Moselle at 7pm.
PM is said to have left his uncles house at 6pm, estimated to arrive at Moselle around 7pm.
TOD: 9-9:30 pm.

That's a huge gap of 2 to 2 1/2 hours there. What happened in that 2+ hour gap. Did they argue for 2 hours up at the house? Was MM's door open and car running because she was arriving or leaving? It has been said she called the vet about the injured dog. That indicates she was at the house at some point. It has also been said she arrived, parked her car near the kennels and walked down toward the kennels. Did PM tell her about the injured dog and ask her to go up to the house and call the vet? Did PM ride to Moselle with his mom? Did AM know PM was there? It was said 2 vehicles were towed, but those 2 vehicles could have been AM's and MM's. Did she encounter AM there at the house when she went to call the vet and argue with him for 2+ hours then walked back to the kennels to collect PM and leave? Did AM become enraged when she would not budge on the matter of the audit and divorce and grab the AR 15 and follow her down to the kennels? Was the AR 15 stored at the house and the shotgun at the kennels? I have been told by hubby (who apparently buys gun without telling me) that an AR 15 is an expensive gun. But then he said he has some kind of Henry shotgun that is also expensive. Wouldn't they have been locked up to prevent theft?

OP's have said that 9-9:30 pm is almost daylight (or close to dusk) in SC in June. But if it was cloudy or raining, wouldn't it have made it much darker at that time? We have had some supercell thunderstorms here at noon that causes it to be so dark the street lights come on and we have to turn the house lights on. I think the weather could have been a huge factor in AM not seeing PM in the kennels. The cloudy/rainy weather could have made it so dark at 9-9:30 pm that PM would have gone unnoticed under the roof of the kennels.

So many questions yet to be answered.

All this is just my own speculation and opinion.

JMO
 
  • #658
The SUV was among two vehicles police discovered at the Colleton County estate on June 7. Both vehicles, the 2021 Chevrolet Suburban and a 2019 Chevrolet Silverado, are owned by the Peters, Murdaugh, Parker, Eltzroth & Detrick law firm based in Hampton.

However, the Suburban appears to be the only vehicle that police investigators removed from the property, according to a copy of the computer-aided dispatch, or CAD, report released Thursday.


A driver with the company arrived at the Murdaugh property, donned gloves and drove the Suburban to the tow truck, then hauled it to the Sheriff’s Office impound lot, the newspaper previously reported.

It was parked near the dog pens where the two Murdaughs were found shot to death, the newspaper reported.
Wonder if that was MM or AM's vehicle. Was it towed for forensics to see if AM had been in it recently?

JMO
 
  • #659
Wonder if that was MM or AM's vehicle. Was it towed for forensics to see if AM had been in it recently?

JMO
The Suburban was Alex’s. The Mercedes was Maggie’s. He was driving her car when his roadside shooting debacle with Cousin Eddie occurred.
 
  • #660
Yes I know this is the Daily Mail. I only bring attention to it because I've never recalled hearing any talk (except by Harpootlian to deny existence of any life insurance policies) of MM or PM having insurance. Interesting that it was stated back in Oct 2021 that combined MM and PM had policies totaling $10 million.

Could insurance money have been the reason for MM's murder? I don't believe PM was originally a target like MM but an unplanned AJMO

"Just one week before this bizarre incident [ the botched "suicide" ], according to the source, 'Buster and Alex were talking about the fact that the life insurance wasn't paying out on Maggie or Paul. My understanding was that there was a $6million policy on her and $4million on him.'

Murdaugh's attorney Dick Harpootlian has denied the existence of any such policies.

The source maintained, 'Alex was talking to Buster about it and told him that soon he 'wouldn't have to worry about any of that.'

'That was about one week before he got shot in that shooting, he supposedly staged to get his own life insurance."

BBM
Just one week before this bizarre incident [ the botched "suicide" ], according to the source, 'BM and Alex were talking about the fact that the life insurance wasn't paying out on Maggie or Paul. My understanding was that there was a $6million policy on her and $4million on him.'

But it was reported in the suicide/murder for hire fiasco that AM had a 10 million dollar life insurance policy on himself alone. This would contradict the amounts the source reported and I believe that 10 million dollar policy would have been checked and confirmed by SLED since it was part of the AM and Cuz scheme being investigated. Could AM have lied to the source and BM about MM and PM having any life insurance at all? We know he is capable of lying to everyone.

And why would there be a larger amount of insurance on MM seeing that she didn't work? Wouldn't that be a red flag to whoever issued those policies?

ETA: I didn't see enough cash on hand in their bank accounts to pay premiums on that large of life insurance policies.
JMO
 
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