SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #13

[Warwick7]

I never realized there were 3.

"Oct. 22, 2021: SLED releases three 911 calls placed the day Alex Murdaugh reported being shot in the head in Hampton County. Two calls are from Murdaugh and the third is from a passerby, who saw Murdaugh bleeding and waving his hands but didn't stop because she felt it was a set up."

Murdaugh Murder Mystery Timeline: Dates, events surrounding investigation into South Carolina family

The latest information on the investigation into the deaths of Paul Murdaugh and Maggie Murdaugh, as well as Mallory Beach, Gloria Satterfield and Stephen Smith.

www.wjcl.com

 

[Skigirl]

I'm terribly behind. How is it known that the time of death for PM and MM is 9-9:30 and not closer to 7?

The timing is very surprising to me. For one, wasn't MM livid that AM wasn't there earlier? Or did she think they were going to be leaving after 9 PM? They supposedly had an hour-long car ride to go see his father who was only a few days away from death. A visit at 10-10:30 PM to someone who is terminally ill and coming to the end of life is a very, very late visit and is hard for me to believe.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm terribly behind. How is it known that the time of death for PM and MM is 9-9:30 and not closer to 7?

The timing is very surprising to me. For one, wasn't MM livid that AM wasn't there earlier? Or did she think they were going to be leaving after 9 PM? They supposedly had an hour-long car ride to go see his father who was only a few days away from death. A visit at 10-10:30 PM to someone who is terminally ill and coming to the end of life is a very, very late visit and is hard for me to believe.

I think there is phone, video and car telematics that have got the timeline down.

 

[stmarysmead]

Two hours! Okay, this is purely personsl and opinion only.
I would never wait two hours for an estranged husband to show up for this hospital visit…especially if it seemed ‘fishy’ to me. Why didn’t she call one of the other family members and find out the hospital and just go without him?

But if I did wait…Id be fuming over how rude he was. And maybe she was. Maybe he pulled in as she was leaving and she just got out of the car to tell him..’forget it!’. Left it running because he wasn’t going to convince her to stay.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

People Magazine (Aug 1 issue): “Police theorize Alex lured Maggie to this shed in a remote corner of their Hampton, SC property, unaware that Paul was at the adjacent kennels.”
Including picture from the magazine as well as a great picture from the realty website showing the point-of-view from the shed to the kennels.
View attachment 355878View attachment 355879

Sorry, I can't seem to enlarge the photo to read the article.

 

[MerryB]

It sounds to me, from what’s been made available, that the murders occurred not long after Maggie and Paul arrived at Moselle. I realize that contradicts what the coroner estimated. MOO

 

[MerryB]

Sorry, I can't seem to enlarge the photo to read the article.

I’m sorry. I’m a subscriber so all I have is the magazine. There’s no link yet, but I’m sure there will be once the magazine hits stands.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I would like to know whether MM ever made it to the hospital to see her FIL. That would shed so much light on the differing timelines.

Facts we know:

AM lured MM to Moselle and is said to have had the AR at the ready.:
Did he plan to just kill her when she arrived or try to talk her into dropping the audit and divorce first?

DH said MM and PM had no life insurance. Was it ever reported if they did or not? I could have missed it but I don't recall reading where they did. (Maybe OP's will help me out here if they have a link to information on MM's life insurance or lack thereof.) If MM had life insurance was this a case of AM wanting to stop the audit or just a murder for a big life insurance payout. We should remember that "suicide/murder for hire" side of the road stunt AM pulled. He stated at the time his life insurance would not pay off in the case of suicide so he hired cousin Eddie to make it look like murder. Was MM's policy excluding suicide also? Maybe some OP's who know more about life insurance can weigh in here, but my life insurance policy has a 2 year exclusion for suicide. So was AM and MM's (assuming she had any) policies fairly new?

Frankly I did not see the money in the bank accounts (58.00+16.00+8000.00 which are very small accounts to have as liquid cash on hand) to pay long term for a 10 million dollar life insurance on AM let alone one for MM. (of course my premiums are higher because I am 3 days older than dirt but still a 10 million dollar policy on a 52 year old woman or man would carry very substantial premiums unless it was AD&D.) The question of the life insurance policies on MM would go a long way in determining what AM's plans were concerning MM that night.

Also all the real property plus a share of PMPED was in MM's name alone. I am not sure what SC law is concerning that in a divorce but OK law is any property acquired after marriage, even if in one party's name alone is community property and must be split 50/50 and sold in a divorce. Any property acquired before marriage remains with whoever had it before the marriage. Moselle's deed was changed to MM's name in 2015 after the marriage. I haven't read any information about when the deed to other real property came to be in MM's name alone. But at any rate if it was after the marriage would it all have been community property and therefore a 50/50 split. Did AM see when MM wouldn't budge off that divorce a 50/50 split causing all real property to be sold and mortgages and other debts having to be paid off?

Then you have the proven fact most abused spouses are killed in the first year after they leave their abuser. Plus SC's divorce law where you have to live apart for a year before you can file for a divorce. MM and AM were coming up on that one year deadline. Did this factor in? Did AM finally realize that MM was not coming back to him?

Or did it have more to do with his father being close to dying? Did RM III leave MM power of attorney over AM's inheritance? It has been said RM III and MM were close and RM III had to know about his son's long term drug habit. So did he try to control AM from the grave by leaving MM in charge of AM's inheritance?

MM is said to arrive at Moselle at 7pm.
PM is said to have left his uncles house at 6pm, estimated to arrive at Moselle around 7pm.
TOD: 9-9:30 pm.

That's a huge gap of 2 to 2 1/2 hours there. What happened in that 2+ hour gap. Did they argue for 2 hours up at the house? Was MM's door open and car running because she was arriving or leaving? It has been said she called the vet about the injured dog. That indicates she was at the house at some point. It has also been said she arrived, parked her car near the kennels and walked down toward the kennels. Did PM tell her about the injured dog and ask her to go up to the house and call the vet? Did PM ride to Moselle with his mom? Did AM know PM was there? It was said 2 vehicles were towed, but those 2 vehicles could have been AM's and MM's. Did she encounter AM there at the house when she went to call the vet and argue with him for 2+ hours then walked back to the kennels to collect PM and leave? Did AM become enraged when she would not budge on the matter of the audit and divorce and grab the AR 15 and follow her down to the kennels? Was the AR 15 stored at the house and the shotgun at the kennels? I have been told by hubby (who apparently buys gun without telling me) that an AR 15 is an expensive gun. But then he said he has some kind of Henry shotgun that is also expensive. Wouldn't they have been locked up to prevent theft?

OP's have said that 9-9:30 pm is almost daylight (or close to dusk) in SC in June. But if it was cloudy or raining, wouldn't it have made it much darker at that time? We have had some supercell thunderstorms here at noon that causes it to be so dark the street lights come on and we have to turn the house lights on. I think the weather could have been a huge factor in AM not seeing PM in the kennels. The cloudy/rainy weather could have made it so dark at 9-9:30 pm that PM would have gone unnoticed under the roof of the kennels.

So many questions yet to be answered.

All this is just my own speculation and opinion.

JMO

I want to amend this post to say hubby did not say the shotgun was a Henry. That was some other gun he has. A rifle or something. He just said the shotgun was an expensive type. He cleared that up on a phone conversation we just had after I made this post. Like I said, the man has an obsession with buying guns and I don't have a clue what we own. Stressing the we because I had no idea until I started asking him about guns. lol

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I’m sorry. I’m a subscriber so all I have is the magazine. There’s no link yet, but I’m sure there will be once the magazine hits stands.

@MerryB
Thank you for trying. I guess I will wait for the link. But you are a sweetie for trying for us.

JMO

 

[Seattle1]

Frankly I did not see the money in the bank accounts (58.00+16.00+8000.00 which are very small accounts to have as liquid cash on hand) to pay long term for a 10 million dollar life insurance on AM let alone one for MM.

^^rsbm

Bank account balance would be irrelevant if the Life Policy was part of AM's benefit package from the firm's group life insurance for employees. Also, any supplement coverage above the limit by paid by the employer would be in the form of a payroll deduction. JMO

 

[bestill]

It just occured to me, if RMsr was so close to death then any money woes that AM was experiencing could soon be ending. Even though MrsM is still alive (my understanding is she's suffering from dementia) then the executor would have to settle the estate. I'm sure that would be one of the sons - so the father passing could help relieve the money troubles but not PM's charges. So who was really the target? JMO

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I'm terribly behind. How is it known that the time of death for PM and MM is 9-9:30 and not closer to 7?

The timing is very surprising to me. For one, wasn't MM livid that AM wasn't there earlier? Or did she think they were going to be leaving after 9 PM? They supposedly had an hour-long car ride to go see his father who was only a few days away from death. A visit at 10-10:30 PM to someone who is terminally ill and coming to the end of life is a very, very late visit and is hard for me to believe.

SkiGirl!! Good to see you here You had such good posts on Savoupolos case (I was lurking and read every single post but hadn't joined WS)!

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Two hours! Okay, this is purely personsl and opinion only.
I would never wait two hours for an estranged husband to show up for this hospital visit…especially if it seemed ‘fishy’ to me. Why didn’t she call one of the other family members and find out the hospital and just go without him?

But if I did wait…Id be fuming over how rude he was. And maybe she was. Maybe he pulled in as she was leaving and she just got out of the car to tell him..’forget it!’. Left it running because he wasn’t going to convince her to stay.

I think I missed something. Who or where did it say that Alex was late to meet MM on June 7 and MM was fuming?

 

[clearskies1]

I'm terribly behind. How is it known that the time of death for PM and MM is 9-9:30 and not closer to 7?

The timing is very surprising to me. For one, wasn't MM livid that AM wasn't there earlier? Or did she think they were going to be leaving after 9 PM? They supposedly had an hour-long car ride to go see his father who was only a few days away from death. A visit at 10-10:30 PM to someone who is terminally ill and coming to the end of life is a very, very late visit and is hard for me to believe.

"Colleton County Coroner Richard Harvey told The Island Packet that both Paul Murdaugh and his mother Maggie Murdaugh were shot multiple times before they died.

Paul, 22, and Maggie, 52, were found shot near dog kennels at the family’s home near Islandton on June 7. The coroner said that the time of death for both Murdaughs was between 9 and 9:30 p.m. and that they both suffered multiple gunshot wounds."

Coroner: Mother, son shot multiple times

ISLANDTON, S.C. (AP) — A mother and son from one of South Carolina’s prominent legal families were shot multiple times before they died, a county coroner said Monday. Colleton County Coroner Richard Harvey told The Island Packet that both Paul Murdaugh and his mother Maggie Murdaugh were shot...

apnews.com

However, we don't know the basis for the coroner's estimation of the time of death.

 

[stmarysmead]

Of course, no one has said this. I apologize…I was expressing my own feelings/opinions if I had arrived at 7pm to accompany my estranged husband…on a trip to an unknown hospital…at his request…and he did not arrive until 9:30pm. Because if she wasn’t murdered until 9 or 9:30pm…they either were leaving very late or she spent two hours there.

Was she waiting and only encountered him arriving at the kennels as she was leaving? Is that why his car was there too? Just guessing here.

Was he with her and the visit was scrapped?

It is simply an exercise in trying to imagine why MM was there for 2 hours, why her car was running when the bodies were found, etc...and linking that to the time of death as stated by the coroner. I find these details very confusing but also very intriguing.

I agree with a previous skigrl that leaving at 9:30pm to drive an hour to a hospital to visit a dying man is unusual. But the car was running. Coming or going? If AM, as People magazine implied, was laying in wait…wouldn't that suggest there were two arrival times? MM gets there first earlier, leaves, and is returning at 9:30 and is ambushed.

I will have to read the People article again…

 

[stmarysmead]

‘When Maggie arrived at the scene, she left her car running and walked to the dog kennels on the estate where her son, Paul, was taking photos of a dog he was watching for a friend.
It's unclear what happened next — but Maggie, 52, and Paul, 22 were gunned down close to the dog kennels. Paul's body was found "half in and half out" of the dog kennels, authorities say.’

This is the passage I find puzzling.

This implies that she was killed soon after arriving. But that doesn’t comport with the previously stated time of arrival and the coroner’s time of death.

 

[Warwick7]

‘When Maggie arrived at the scene, she left her car running and walked to the dog kennels on the estate where her son, Paul, was taking photos of a dog he was watching for a friend.
It's unclear what happened next — but Maggie, 52, and Paul, 22 were gunned down close to the dog kennels. Paul's body was found "half in and half out" of the dog kennels, authorities say.’

This is the passage I find puzzling.

This implies that she was killed soon after arriving. But that doesn’t comport with the previously stated time of arrival and the coroner’s time of death.

Ikr?! I did the same thing. It is confusing.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

‘When Maggie arrived at the scene, she left her car running and walked to the dog kennels on the estate where her son, Paul, was taking photos of a dog he was watching for a friend.
It's unclear what happened next — but Maggie, 52, and Paul, 22 were gunned down close to the dog kennels. Paul's body was found "half in and half out" of the dog kennels, authorities say.’

This is the passage I find puzzling.

This implies that she was killed soon after arriving. But that doesn’t comport with the previously stated time of arrival and the coroner’s time of death.

Related to both Paul's location and the times of death -- way back when -- like a year ago -- there were discussions here about whether the coroner's TOD could have been stated because of Murdaugh influences with LE, or AM's statements to local LE, or rumored last calls on PM's and/or MM's cellphones, etc. And then on the podcasts accepted by WS, some experts also allowed that it would be very difficult to pinpoint TOD to such a narrow window just based on the bodies (rigor, temp, weather conditions, etc.) -- so it seems we have a lot in play around an accurate TOD. MOO.

Second, again way back when -- we had discussions about whether the crime scene had been tampered with as some folks were reporting -- whether the bodies had been moved, the shed walls had been cleaned, evidence removed before LE arrived, unauthorized persons inside the yellow tape, etc. Saying this, my guess is it would have been difficult to move the bodies intact in their assumed conditions after close-range shootings. MOO.

Additional feelings about June 7 -- the recording of Alec's voice has been rattling around in my head the last few days -- that falsetto and sobbing, and then eerie calm. After knowing what we know now, some of his statements are absolutely haunting and, at least for me, take on new shades of meaning. For instance in such a matter-of-fact tone, "M'am, I need to call some of my family now."

Only my musings. OMO.

 

[Warwick7]

Now this is interesting:

"Based on a barely intelligible remark made in his 9-1-1 call on the night of the murders, there is considerable speculation Alex Murdaugh was not expecting his son to be on the family’s sprawling, 1,700-acre hunting property on that fateful evening last June. Many believe Paul Murdaugh – who was staring down a trio of felony charges related to the aforementioned boat crash at the time of his murder – was collateral damage during a premeditated killing of his mother."

https://www.fitsnews.com/2022/07/18/murdaugh-murders-death-penalty-decision-looms-large-for-alan-wilson/

 

[Rusty123]

I’ve been following this case from the very beginning and so far no one has explained to any degree of satisfaction why the authorities on the scene proclaimed that there “was no threat to the public”. We know that PM and MM didn’t shoot each other, and the self defense theory has not been throw around, so….one could interpret that AM may Have confessed and hoped it would be swept under the rug? I’m bewildered.