SIDEBAR #26- Arias/Alexander forum

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Definitely agree. Arias will foment havoc & chaos in this final proceeding. She did request another defense attorney, a woman, already and the judge denied that. Alyce LaViolette refused to return, did she not? She has proffered some threats she takes seriously as her reason for declining participation. Arias would, of course, drag her kicking & screaming if allowed but ALaV was not part of mitigation. Jurors look sideways at testimony from relatives as it is considered biased and coming from interested parties, not objective. Daryll B. and Patti W. have been squeezed flat. As the owl said last night, "Who?"
 
I do hope that Juan pays closer attention to the men that he lets on the jury if he can. I think he might not quite grasp how capable of manipulation she really is. Especially now that she'll be up in front of the jury and talking directly to them during the entire mini trial.

This does give her a good opportunity to bring the jurors closer to her, get some sympathy working for her because they will see her interacting with others and it will make her more of a person to them this time around.

I also wonder if she'll do a 180 and present herself in a more normal way instead of trying to portray an awkward, nerdy, mousey girl. We might see her all Jodied out this time too...

I don't know how much of an entire Jodi Show I can actually watch. It might be too much to take.

JMO
 
Definitely agree. Arias will foment havoc & chaos in this final proceeding. She did request another defense attorney, a woman, already and the judge denied that. Alyce LaViolette refused to return, did she not? She has proffered some threats she takes seriously as her reason for declining participation. Arias would, of course, drag her kicking & screaming if allowed but ALaV was not part of mitigation. Jurors look sideways at testimony from relatives as it is considered biased and coming from interested parties, not objective. Daryll B. and Patti W. have been squeezed flat. As the owl said last night, "Who?"

And who could Arias get to testify that Nurmi and Wilmott couldn't? On another note, I still wonder who it was that urged her to represent herself. I mean it's unlikely that she suddenly got the idea while on lock down in her cell, isn't it?
 
What exactly will be covered during this "mini" trial? How far can she go? How long will it last?

I had posted this article on retrials previously last year on the Sidebar and saved it for my records and thought that others might benefit from it- so I'm posting it again. (hope no one minds)

I think it answers some questions that we might have about what retrials of the penalty phase might entail ( these lawyers are talking about a retrial after the verdict was death, but subsequently overturned on the penalty phase).

The lawyers that were questioned were not from AZ tho'. Don't know if this would make a difference in missy's retrial and, of course, now she will represent herself and who knows how much of the law she knows.

Well, just FYI:

Switching Juries in Midstream* : The Perplexities of Penalty-Phase-Only Retrials

"This article addresses the oft-recurring, but seldom analyzed scenario where
a capital conviction is affirmed, but the sentence is reversed, and the prosecutor
elects to retry the penalty phase before a new jury. There are not many doctrinal
issues raised in these circumstances, but there are a host of practical ones,
including: how the jury is to be apprised of the facts underlying the conviction;
whether the defense can challenge the underlying facts; how the long delay affects
the prospects for each party; how the defendant’s behavior in the interim may
affect the verdict; and many more....

"...Moderator: These penalty-phase-only retrials must seem odd to the new jurors.
The judge instructs them that they have to abide by the guilty verdict, yet they have
not heard any of the evidence of guilt. Plus, it will soon come out when the date of
the offense is revealed that the case is years—sometimes decades old. What help
do jurors get in understanding the strange posture of the case?

Defense Attorney Britt: I always file a motion to preclude that a death sentence
was found at the first trial. That is always granted. But I think the jurors all
understand the case has been reversed and sent back, although that is not told to
them in any way—they figure it out. So in theory they do not know, but really
they do.

Defense Attorney Kerns: That is true. The jury is not supposed to know it is
coming back for resentencing. However, it is hard for them not to know. For
instance if the crime occurred in 1976 and the new jurors are sitting in 1998, they
must be asking themselves, “How come I haven’t read about this is the paper?”
The jury is not fooled.

Prosecutor Laeser: I agree also. The jury has to be told in very gentle terms that
another jury has already heard the trial evidence. If the judge says, “I don’t want
the jury to know he’s been on Death Row for fifteen years,” you have to fashion
your statements around that. But the dates have not been excised, so the jury
knows something is up. My assumption is that there are not twelve people stupid
enough not to figure out he has been sentenced to death before.....

Defense Attorney Kerns: Under Florida procedure, even a seven-to-five vote for
death results in a death recommendation to the judge.25 So it is very important for
the defense to ascertain in voir dire how much the jury knows about the first
sentencing case. Specifically, do they know how the first jury found—that is, a
unanimous verdict, as opposed to a split verdict?

Prosecutor Morton: I agree that the new jury will figure out that the defendant
was previously sentenced to death. But in terms of what the new jury is likely to
know about the facts of the case, I think there is a distinction between populous
counties and smaller ones. If the case was tried years ago, in a populous county
like the one where I work, it is not likely to have jurors who remember the case.
So it is not that different than trying the case for the first time. But in smaller
counties, people will remember horrific crimes, publicity and all.

Moderator: Prosecutors, how do you try to get the jury up to speed on the
guilt/innocence facts?
Obviously, you want to do more than simply present the
prior verdict form showing the conviction. But do you need to re-present all the
guilt/innocence phase evidence, to the extent it is still available? ...

Prosecutor Laeser: In Florida when a case is sent back for resentencing, both
parties start from square one, except for the fact of conviction. Indeed, the
prosecution can even prove additional aggravating circumstance(s) beyond what it
presented at the original trial. Under Florida law, we do not labor under the
hearsay rule at the penalty phase, so in a penalty-phase-only retrial, I can put on
summary witnesses. I can use a lead investigator to summarize parts or all of the
investigation—this is important because it limits the cross-examination the defense
can do. So I could put up a very bare bones case, but I do not do that.
Strategically, I put on as much evidence as possible. To convince a jury that a
death sentence is appropriate is a difficult task. I have to put on as many important
witnesses as possible. I have to pull emotional heartstrings. This takes a huge
amount of pretrial preparation. Usually it is a very old case; witnesses’ memories
are not all that sharp. You do not like to refresh their recollection in front of a jury.
So it takes a lot of witness preparation.

Moderator: I must now break the flow of this discussion to put my law professor
hat back on and discuss the law with respect to the two doctrinally interesting
issues in this area of the law: to what extent may a defendant attempt to challenge
the guilty verdict; and to what extent challenge a prior finding of an aggravating
circumstance?


With respect to a defendant’s attempting to undermine the prior guilty verdict,
the straightforward answer under the “law of the case” principle26 would seem to
be that a defendant is not permitted to do it, since the conviction was upheld on
appeal and is binding on the new jury. This is indeed the law in most
jurisdictions.27 ...

....Now, getting back to our panel discussion, I am sure you all agree that the
issues of law of the case and residual doubt**** (see definition below) loom large with respect to
resentencings. From a practical standpoint, death penalty litigators know residual
doubt is a real and important phenomenon.49 The peculiar thing about the new jury
in a penalty-phase-only retrial is that they have no basis for having a residual
doubt, since they have not heard the guilt/innocence phase evidence. I am
guessing, though, that prosecutors still have to worry about the defense attempting
to inject doubt about the conviction, and any inherent aggravating circumstances.

Am I right about that?

Prosecutor Laeser: Even though the jurors are told they have to assume guilt,
some jurors are very hesitant to accept someone else’s finding. Some feel they
have to be absolutely certain of guilt before assessing a death sentence. As a
practical matter, we usually do present enough evidence to persuade them, but we
do not take anything for granted.

Prosecutor Hawkins: We are quick to shut the door on any residual doubt theory
with an objection. Plus, defense lawyers have to be wary of losing their
credibility. If they have a mountain of evidence coming against them showing the
defendant’s guilt, they lose credibility if they nitpick the details. Also, if a jury
feels that a lawyer is wasting their time, the lawyer is going to lose credibility with
the jury....

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/students/groups/osjcl/files/2012/05/McCord-PDF-11-29-04.pdf

***Residual doubt in death penalty cases:

"Can a capital murder defendant recall an earlier alibi witness to testify about the defendant's guilt during the penalty phase of a first-degree murder trial? The plurality decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in Locket v. Ohio (438 U.S. 586, 604 1978) interpreted the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments to allow a sentencer to consider "as a mitigating factor…any of the circumstances of the offense that the defendant proffers as a basis for a sentence less than death." (A majority of the Court adopted this plurality opinion in Eddings v. Oklahoma [102 S.Ct.869, 1982.])..."

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun06/jn.aspx

AZ Law on residual doubt:
"RESIDUAL DOUBT/INNOCENCE


US Supreme court:

The Court set forth three factors that must be satisfied to justify a trial court’s exclusion of “residual doubt”; evidence. To determine if evidence can be precluded under the State’s authority to “set reasonable limits upon the evidence” in order to achieve a “more rational and equitable administration of the death penalty,” ask:

Does the evidence concern “how” and not “whether” a defendant committed the crime (traditional sentencing considerations shed light on the manner in which the crime was committed and not whether it was committed);

Have the parties “previously litigated the issue to which the evidence is relevant – whether the defendant committed the basic crime” (the law discourages collateral attacks of this kind); and
Will preclusion have a “minimal adverse impact” on the defendant’s ability to present his claim at sentencing (will some evidence of the claim have been presented to the jury at any point in any form)[1]
In all practicality, the Guzek opinion will support the decision of a trial judge to preclude residual doubt evidence whenever a capital defendant seeks to present evidence to a sentencing jury that he is actually innocent. But the trial judge will likely need to apply the “test” when making such a ruling.

D. Arizona Law:

1. Case Law

In State v. Pandeli, our supreme court stated that it “ha not heretofore invoked residual doubt as a mitigating circumstance.” 200 Ariz. 365, 380 (2001), judgment vacated and remanded on other grounds at 536 U.S. 953 (2002). The court has, however, referred to both “lingering” and “residual” doubt in its prior opinions. Review of these cases in light of Pandeli makes evident that the court has, despite its inconsistent use of nomenclature, actually considered doubts in two contexts: first, where there were claims of reasonable doubt concerning the defendant’s guilt; and second, where there were doubts about what weight to accord mitigating circumstances in light of the aggravating factors.

a. Reasonable Doubts About Guilt

In State v. Atwood, 171 Ariz. 576, 653 (1992), the Arizona Supreme Court rejected a capital defendant’s claim that there were “lingering doubts” about his guilt and that the trial court failed to find those doubts as a mitigating circumstance. In denying the claim, the Atwood court held that its review of the circumstantial evidence in the case demonstrated that the “jury’s verdict finding defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt [wa]s supported by sufficient evidence.” 171 Ariz. at 653. Because of this fact, “the trial court properly refused to find lingering doubt to be a mitigating circumstance sufficiently substantial to call for leniency.” Id. In this context, the court was evidently using “lingering doubt” to describe a sentencing judge’s concern that the evidence did not prove the defendant to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Other cases support this conclusion. See State v. Ring (I), 200 Ariz. 267 (2001) (“when a defendant is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, supported and unfounded claims of actual innocence do not constitute mitigation for sentencing purposes. Even if residual doubt is a mitigating circumstance, on this record we are left with no residual doubt about Defendant’s guilt”), reversed on other grounds at 536 U.S. 584 (2002); and see State v. Lehr, 201 Ariz. 509, 523 (2002) (court upholds trial judge’s finding that “lingering doubt as to the actual commission of the murder had not been proven by a preponderance of the evidence”), cert denied, 537 U.S. 1020 (2002); State v. Schackart, 190 Ariz. 238, 254 (1997) (“Once a person is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, unsupported claims of innocence do not constitute mitigation for sentencing purposes), cert. denied, 525 U.S. 862 (1998); State v. Spears, 184 Ariz. 277, 295 (1996), cert. denied, 519 U.S. 967 (1996) (“ecause . . . the jury’s verdict finding defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt [wa]s supported by very strong evidence, the trial court properly refused to find the non-statutory mitigating circumstance of residual doubt”); State v. Schad, 129 Ariz. 557, 573-74 (1981) (where “there was sufficient evidence to support the verdict,” there was “no merit in [a] defendant’s contention that there was doubt of guilt”), cert. denied, 455 U.S. 983 (1982).

b. Doubts About the Weight of Mitigation

Many parties cite to State v. Rockwell, 161 Ariz. 5 (1989) and State v. Verdugo, 112 Ariz. 288 (1975), in support of the argument that the Arizona Supreme Court has reversed death sentences on findings of “residual doubt.” This argument should be viewed cautiously. As noted above, Rockwell involved misgivings regarding the weight to be given compelling mitigation when weighing it against aggravating circumstances. When such “doubts” are present, the court concluded they should be resolved in favor of life. See Rockwell, 161 Ariz. at 16; accord State v. Valencia, 132 Ariz. 248 (1982). In Verdugo, the court addressed the sufficiency of the evidence to support the aggravating factor: grave risk to another. Because there was an accomplice to the crime in Verdugo, and there was insufficient evidence to prove that the defendant rather than the accomplice committed the act supporting the found aggravator, the supreme court reversed the trial judge’s determination that this aggravator had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The court did not consider the question of residual doubt of the defendant’s actual guilt.
This line of cases is the justification for presently instructing the jury that, “where there is a doubt whether the death sentence should be imposed, you should resolve that doubt in favor of a life sentence.” See Rockwell, 161 Ariz. at 16. Instructing the jury on lingering doubt is proper under Arizona law; however, the propriety of this instruction says nothing about the legitimacy of permitting evidence of, or providing an instruction on, residual doubt....

http://www.azcourts.gov/ccsguide/MitigatingCircumstances/RESIDUALDOUBTINNOCENCE.aspx

Maybe this "residual doubt" is missy's new mitigation????? :scared::scared:

--------------------------------
There is a lot more info than I have posted here (can't post the whole article).

These are very interesting articles- if you have time, read :book: them as they have helped me see what a retrial of the penalty phase might be (seen through the eyes of both prosecutors and DAs) and the second article about "residual doubt" is enlightening also as to what missy:jail: has up her sleeve- ssssssssssnake.:snake:



How long this retrial will last???

Your guess is as good as mine and mine is that it will last for months- so lets cook up some :popcorn: and watch missy's:jail: last performance.:curtsey:

Can't wait.
biggrin.gif
 
I do hope that Juan pays closer attention to the men that he lets on the jury if he can. I think he might not quite grasp how capable of manipulation she really is. Especially now that she'll be up in front of the jury and talking directly to them during the entire mini trial.

This does give her a good opportunity to bring the jurors closer to her, get some sympathy working for her because they will see her interacting with others and it will make her more of a person to them this time around.

I also wonder if she'll do a 180 and present herself in a more normal way instead of trying to portray an awkward, nerdy, mousey girl. We might see her all Jodied out this time too...

I don't know how much of an entire Jodi Show I can actually watch. It might be too much to take.

JMO

BBM She's still a murderer and a heinous one at that. Look how she carved Travis up (sorry for the crude words).

I'm sure JM will bring that up time and again.

:juanettes::juanettes::juanettes:
 
Thanks for the articles, Y or N ! Good information. :thinking:
 
Being as this is the Side Bar:

Dad update.
My dad died early this morning at 3:00 am. The hospital didn't contact me, but it is what it is. The mortuary blindsided my lil' brother, contacting him about the signatures need by all 4 of us siblings to go forward with his cremation.....

My lil' bro, Jonathan, was like "wait, is my dad dead?" He was expecting a call from me..I was the primary contact for the hospital. Totally caught him off guard.
So I get a call from him, "Did you know dad died?" ...wha.......?

Sad, but truly incredible! Dad died in a place he was given the best care. He didn't linger in unconsciousness for weeks on end. He heard and said what he needed to, on July 26th, when my brother took me "Skyping" to his hospital bed in Washington.

My dad gave us the most awesome gift he could have ever given us:
He told us he loved us. To be happy. He had 7 minutes of complete clarity.

He lost consciousness 24 hours later, and died 11 days after.

I am in the most incredible place right now. I wish I could have known the man that was in that hospital bed.....that WAS my dad. And he came back, for a few brief moments, and made all the darkness, grief, and pain, disappear.

I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. I am truly happy and know I am loved.

R.I.P. Stephen Carlson Garn, My Dad. I love you!
 
The raunchy stuff was Nurmi's idea, no doubt, so I'm hoping that will go by the wayside during the penalty retrial. What does everyone else think?
 
Being as this is the Side Bar:

Dad update.
My dad died early this morning at 3:00 am. The hospital didn't contact me, but it is what it is. The mortuary blindsided my lil' brother, contacting him about the signatures need by all 4 of us siblings to go forward with his cremation.....

My lil' bro, Jonathan, was like "wait, is my dad dead?" He was expecting a call from me..I was the primary contact for the hospital. Totally caught him off guard.
So I get a call from him, "Did you know dad died?" ...wha.......?

Sad, but truly incredible! Dad died in a place he was given the best care. He didn't linger in unconsciousness for weeks on end. He heard and said what he needed to, on July 26th, when my brother took me "Skyping" to his hospital bed in Washington.

My dad gave us the most awesome gift he could have ever given us:
He told us he loved us. To be happy. He had 7 minutes of complete clarity.

He lost consciousness 24 hours later, and died 11 days after.

I am in the most incredible place right now. I wish I could have known the man that was in that hospital bed.....that WAS my dad. And he came back, for a few brief moments, and made all the darkness, grief, and pain, disappear.

I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. I am truly happy and know I am loved.

R.I.P. Stephen Carlson Garn, My Dad. I love you!

I read your earlier posts, Bernina, and I'm so happy things turned out the way they did.
 
BBM She's still a murderer and a heinous one at that. Look how she carved Travis up (sorry for the crude words).

I'm sure JM will bring that up time and again.

:juanettes::juanettes::juanettes:

Oh wow, I can't even imagine how that would work with her being her own attny - IF she makes it that far as her own attorney. I wonder how long it takes before they force her to have one.

Ok...I need a break from poor little Jenise's thread so I'm going to go and look for the shenanigans she tried to pull. The last I saw was that Jodi went to court and now gets to rep herself. Did she then go and try to have a different attorney appointed to her? Did she try to use the court system to create some type of loop hole to obtain new counsel and therefore extend the trial date and that failed?

Off to Google now. :)
 
Over on the Hulsey thread (Juan's current trial), CM Bryan Hulsey asked for a "Directed Verdict".........
After the weeks of jury selection, weeks of trial, delays....Hulsey actually refusing to SHOW UP on one day, 2 verdicts for the first 2 phases, and he wants the Judge to decide his penalty?!?!?! And his defense attorneys were throwing up the cost of witnesses and experts throughout the case?!?!?!

Someone hand me a fork! Seriously, that boy is DONE!:gaah:

BTW: Judge denied Hulsey's request!!!!:happydance:
 
Awww, Katiecoolady! So good to see you here and know you are taking good care of yourself now. That was a great post! You input will be missed, but maybe you will pop in once in awhile and give your thoughts. But if not, know you will be thought of and missed. Thanks for all your thoughts during the trial parts, and updates and everything else!

Now you go off and enjoy your life, your brother, and let fate being you blessings you have yet to enjoy.
 
And who could Arias get to testify that Nurmi and Wilmott couldn't? On another note, I still wonder who it was that urged her to represent herself. I mean it's unlikely that she suddenly got the idea while on lock down in her cell, isn't it?

I think it was Nurmi, Wilmott, or even that Maria what's-her-face ( :snake: all of them) that urged her to represent herself, IMO.
But it could've been just that she thinks she can defend herself better than anyone else and they're to blame for her verdict. After all, she thinks she's Einstein:

2a663a513e9dbc5ffa2f6086ec1e644b.jpg


but she's really this (a person covered with an innocent man's blood):

arias-jodi-psycho-cover.jpg


Just wait until JM gets a hold of her- she won't know what hit her-
16tons.gif
...
dizzy.gif


She thinks she can out lawyer him.. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

She'll be
bawling.gif
all the way to her cell everyday, for sure after he's done with her.

He'll make mincemeat out of her and spit her out, too, IMO.:silly:

I don't think she remembers how good a lawyer he is. He knows everything about his cases, inside and out, without having to look at some notes on a paper and knows what
he's doing. I don't really think she knows what she's getting herself into. She didn't learn from the last time she represented herself, but maybe she read some law books in
jail and now she thinks she knows everything. Pfttttttttt' It takes a long time to be a lawyer- years, not months.

She should be afraid- be very afraid, but then again, she's a narcissist anyway she's full of (narcissism) and may be just a lost cause.


jail-cell.jpg


juan-martinez-monster-copy.jpg



945d3858f42b72145a5e8052b0ae38ce.jpg


------------------
I gotta go make brownies.
biggrin.gif


(nice to see a lot of people on the Sidebar for a change)
 
Being as this is the Side Bar:

Dad update.
My dad died early this morning at 3:00 am. The hospital didn't contact me, but it is what it is. The mortuary blindsided my lil' brother, contacting him about the signatures need by all 4 of us siblings to go forward with his cremation.....

My lil' bro, Jonathan, was like "wait, is my dad dead?" He was expecting a call from me..I was the primary contact for the hospital. Totally caught him off guard.
So I get a call from him, "Did you know dad died?" ...wha.......?

Sad, but truly incredible! Dad died in a place he was given the best care. He didn't linger in unconsciousness for weeks on end. He heard and said what he needed to, on July 26th, when my brother took me "Skyping" to his hospital bed in Washington.

My dad gave us the most awesome gift he could have ever given us:
He told us he loved us. To be happy. He had 7 minutes of complete clarity.

He lost consciousness 24 hours later, and died 11 days after.

I am in the most incredible place right now. I wish I could have known the man that was in that hospital bed.....that WAS my dad. And he came back, for a few brief moments, and made all the darkness, grief, and pain, disappear.

I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. I am truly happy and know I am loved.

R.I.P. Stephen Carlson Garn, My Dad. I love you!


I am am happy you were able to share some good moments with your Dad, Bernina. I am sad for the loss, but glad you have found peace and love through these last days. That last "I Love You" will be in your heart forever.
:grouphug:
 
YorN, how funny!!! :floorlaugh:
 
was just having a random thought earlier,not sure if it's been mentioned

Now she is representing herself,and we all know that will be a total car crash...do you think the media will go back to the court and ask them to reconsider their decision on the 'live stream'

I want to see this live,it would be too good
 
I don't think that's possible for her in Arizona. I remember that JM said that he wanted death for her,( but right now, she only has 2 possibilities: death or LWOP) but she still might get LWP IF the laws are changed in the future:

"Sentence of death or life imprisonment; aggravating and mitigating circumstances; definition

A. If the state has filed a notice of intent to seek the death penalty and the defendant is:

1. Convicted of first degree murder pursuant to section 13-1105, subsection A, paragraph 1 or 3 and was at least eighteen years of age at the time of the commission of the offense, the defendant shall be sentenced to death or imprisonment in the custody of the state department of corrections for natural life as determined and in accordance with the procedures provided in section 13-752. A defendant who is sentenced to natural life is not eligible for commutation, parole, work furlough, work release or release from confinement on any basis....

http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/00751.htm

Argh! I get so confused. The media says so many different things it's hard to follow it all. But it looks like you are definitely right.
 
Being as this is the Side Bar:

Dad update.
My dad died early this morning at 3:00 am. The hospital didn't contact me, but it is what it is. The mortuary blindsided my lil' brother, contacting him about the signatures need by all 4 of us siblings to go forward with his cremation.....

My lil' bro, Jonathan, was like "wait, is my dad dead?" He was expecting a call from me..I was the primary contact for the hospital. Totally caught him off guard.
So I get a call from him, "Did you know dad died?" ...wha.......?

Sad, but truly incredible! Dad died in a place he was given the best care. He didn't linger in unconsciousness for weeks on end. He heard and said what he needed to, on July 26th, when my brother took me "Skyping" to his hospital bed in Washington.

My dad gave us the most awesome gift he could have ever given us:
He told us he loved us. To be happy. He had 7 minutes of complete clarity.

He lost consciousness 24 hours later, and died 11 days after.

I am in the most incredible place right now. I wish I could have known the man that was in that hospital bed.....that WAS my dad. And he came back, for a few brief moments, and made all the darkness, grief, and pain, disappear.

I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. I am truly happy and know I am loved.

R.I.P. Stephen Carlson Garn, My Dad. I love you!

Bless your heart Bernina, I am so sorry for your loss, but you have your head in a "good place" a peaceful place. I have gone through losing both of my parents since July 2010, and am still not over it. I feel like a 58 yr old orphan most of the time. There may be days ahead that you might feel overwhelmed. If you do, please reach out to our family members here at WS. I have a few times and this wonderful world of family at WS helped me get back up and dust off the seat of my pants. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. (((hugs))) :prayer:
 
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