Skyline Groundskeeper says he saw no white truck -Timeline Clarified

[cypress]

It's not 'magic' to me either, it's logic. If TH had 'so little time' that she could have been caught...so could someone else. They too could have been 'caught in the act' leaving with a child who was not their own and the same timespan would apply to them...why would it not?

LE has said that TH is their last known witness to have seen Kryon, which means that no one else at the school saw him after 8:45ish. Thus, if TH did not take him from the school, whoever did so did so almost as soon as she last saw him...not between 9 and 10.

All it took was a few minutes to get Kyron out of that school, and those few minutes seem to have happened around 8:45. And if the atmosphere were so chaotic that no one would have noticed a stranger taking Kyron...then no one would have noticed TH taking him.

I'm not saying TH took him or didn't...I'm just saying if it's risky for TH to take him and not be 'caught' (caught taking your own child???) then it's just as or MORE risky for someone else to take them. And if it's odd (per other opinions floating around the 'net) that no one saw TH leave with Kyron then it's doubly odd that no one witnessed him leaving with someone he should not have been with...IMO.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but with regard to this case when discussing luck or it being risky or what have you, for me it boils down to this --

Usually, when a mother kills her child or children, there is no inherent risk of being caught in terms of how she does it. Usually, it's done privately, and the risk is taken later when she attempts to cover it up. However, pedophiles thrive on the risk of the actual act -- Amber Dubois, Chelsea King, Danielle van Dam, Elizabeth Smart, all the way back to Adam Walsh, were all taken from public places or inside their homes at just the moment the predator knew he could get away with it. It wasn't luck; sadly, it was skill.

For a pedophile, what greater risk, what greater thrill than to take a child from a school? The Science Fair was advertised on the board outside the school, the community knew when and where and what time it was taking place.

 

[gardeness]

I posted this a while back. The report is terrifying; I've not had the nerve to try to look up the website (even though LE interviewed seems to suggest it):

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Exposing-the-Pedophile-Playbook-94891204.html

Wow. Yeah...I don't know if I'm up for looking up the website, either!

 

[Calliope]

There are always exceptions to the rule, but with regard to this case when discussing luck or it being risky or what have you, for me it boils down to this --

Usually, when a mother kills her child or children, there is no inherent risk of being caught in terms of how she does it. Usually, it's done privately, and the risk is taken later when she attempts to cover it up. However, pedophiles thrive on the risk of the actual act -- Amber Dubois, Chelsea King, Danielle van Dam, Elizabeth Smart, all the way back to Adam Walsh, were all taken from public places or inside their homes at just the moment the predator knew he could get away with it. It wasn't luck; sadly, it was skill.

For a pedophile, what greater risk, what greater thrill than to take a child from a school? The Science Fair was advertised on the board outside the school, the community knew when and where and what time it was taking place.

You make a good point here. The risk is thrilling and arousing for them.

ugh

 

[sorrell skye]

I hate to keep hammering this point but it sticks in my feeble mind. I still do not see why anyone seeing TH leave or arrive with Kyron would make anyone sit up and notice...if you are used to seeing kids/parents coming and going at school why would this draw your attention? What if he got to school and had an accident (bathroom kind) and had to be rushed out to get more clean clothes? Why would you assume anything wrong seeing a mother come or go with her child? Nothing about this makes sense to me...I work part time in a school and I see people coming and going with their children all the time for appointments or whatever....why would it draw anyone's attention....somebody wise me up!!!! LOL

It wouldn't, unless a child had vanished that day and then you might recall one mother and child going the opposite way from everyone else, if you had seen it.

bbm

Especially a mother with very bright red hair.

 

[eyes4crime]

There are always exceptions to the rule, but with regard to this case when discussing luck or it being risky or what have you, for me it boils down to this --

Usually, when a mother kills her child or children, there is no inherent risk of being caught in terms of how she does it. Usually, it's done privately, and the risk is taken later when she attempts to cover it up. However, pedophiles thrive on the risk of the actual act -- Amber Dubois, Chelsea King, Danielle van Dam, Elizabeth Smart, all the way back to Adam Walsh, were all taken from public places or inside their homes at just the moment the predator knew he could get away with it. It wasn't luck; sadly, it was skill.

For a pedophile, what greater risk, what greater thrill than to take a child from a school? The Science Fair was advertised on the board outside the school, the community knew when and where and what time it was taking place.

The pedophile's life work is being a predator of children. I think of an animal in the jungle like a cougar that is stalking prey - they don't even have to groom the catch.

I think the video is right on target, problem is, people support and love family and stick by them no matter what. When a single woman meets a man who is living with his sister, her kids, mom and dad or any family, how is she to know he is a pedophile. the creep looks and acts completely normal. mhoo it's a terrible problem.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

To date, I have not been on the fence or on one side of the fence or the other in this case. I simply do not feel that I have enough information to make a judgment call on who might be responsible for Kyron's "disappearance". I'm definitely not prepared to say what, if any crime has been committed beyond keeping Kyron from his biological parents. Legally, I supposed that this might equate to "custodial interference" or possible "kidnapping" charges.

That said, the more that I learn about confusing and/or conflicting time-lines, questionable recollections by witnesses, general uncertainties and limited information provided by LE, etc., the more my mind screams "reasonable doubt"... with an echo. jmo

 

[ThoughtFox]

I think there ought to be a thread about fences in the Fence Forum. :angel:

Or perhaps a Fence Sitters Lounge?

Ahem

About this mowing guy: Maybe the pictures of the truck were to pressure this guy to come forward and nothing more? Maybe he just didn't want to get involved and now they've pushed him so he won't be considered a suspect?

So this could just be housekeeping to get the case in order and figure out exactly where Terri's truck was that morning, and also where it wasn't.

I think sometimes there's overthinking going on when we talk about these details.

 

[sorrell skye]

She could have told LE the truck was at one of those places in the pictures at one time, and when they said that nobody saw it there, she could have said, "Oh, wait. It was over here" (where the other picture is). But, really, it could have been pulled up over by the east door.
Or, it could be that it really was on the access road. Many of us don't think people could remember a truck's location correctly this much later.

And yet, TK said he saw *the truck* in the parking lot. Not on Skyline Blvd. & not on the soccer field access road.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html

“I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot,” he said Wednesday. Kessinger said Kyron was looking at other students’ science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends.

ETA: For some reason, it seems that TK's statements have perhaps possibly been forgotten over the weeks.

 

[cluciano63]

I really don't want to have all this doubt, trust me. Because that could lead to acquittal of a guilty person or possibly never even any charges against anyone at all. Neither would be any sort of justice. I just don't see enough from what we know to convict anyone. I hope that Dede or someone will enlighten LE soon if there is more to be learned from her. But if she doesn't, and LE proceeds with what they have, it is a risk and also leaves finding Kyron up to chance.

 

[eyes4crime]

I think there ought to be a thread about fences in the Fence Forum. :angel:

Ahem

About this mowing guy: Maybe the pictures of the truck were to pressure this guy to come forward and nothing more? Maybe he just didn't want to get involved and now they've pushed him so he won't be considered a suspect?

So this could just be housekeeping to get the case in order and figure out exactly where Terri's truck was that morning, and also where it wasn't.

I think sometimes there's overthinking going on when we talk about these details.

BBM

To be perfectly honest ThoughtFox - when I have to stretch every detail and make a gazillion assumptions so a person looks guilty, that's what I call "over thinking". Way too much work for me. moo mho

 

[AbbieNormal]

The groundskeeper says he in the area of the access road until 8:30.

We don't know WHEN the witness who saw the white truck on the access road saw it.

I've always guessed that the witness saw the truck close to 8:45, when TH exited the school.

Most intriguing, IMO, is that the groundskeeper doesn't say that he was driving a white truck that might have been mistaken for the Horman truck.

So, IMO, unless his timeline contradicts the witness one, this is much ado about nothing.

She cold have parked in the parking lot, she said she LEFT at 8:45 so she could not have been parked on the road the groundskeeper was using. That blows that theory, so are we back to wondering if anyone parked in the parking lot parked next to Terris truck and/or saw another adult in the truck wile Terri was in the school?

abbie

 

[Meagain]

This is crazy.

She could've easily parked in the parking lot then swung around to pick him up from the access road. That could've taken what? 2 minutes? Why is this driver assuming the car would be there for a length of time? Further - look at the slope/hill. There is no clear shot of the purported parking spot from the field he was mowing.

 

[RubyRed]

I think there ought to be a thread about fences in the Fence Forum. :angel:

Ahem

About this mowing guy: Maybe the pictures of the truck were to pressure this guy to come forward and nothing more? Maybe he just didn't want to get involved and now they've pushed him so he won't be considered a suspect?

So this could just be housekeeping to get the case in order and figure out exactly where Terri's truck was that morning, and also where it wasn't.

I think sometimes there's overthinking going on when we talk about these details.

bbm

I think they knew about this guy from the get go. LE said they had talked to everyone from parents to delivery driver's etc. I doubt they overlooked him.

 

[sarx]

I think the whole chain thing is being over complicated.
It looks like and would make sense that he:
pulled up to the locked chain across the service road
got out and unlocked it and dropped the chain on the side of the rd
drove through and took the mower off the truck and mowed the field
got the mower back on the truck
drove out
stopped the truck once he had passed the chain gate
got out and placed the chain back across the road and locked it.

 

[cluciano63]

It doesn't really sound to me as though they talked to him before. If they had, why talk to him tonight? They would have already had his whereabouts, etc.

 

[Leila]

Please remove if already posted.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html

My head is spinning :banghead:

The groundskeeper sounds very credible to me. If the Horman's white pick-up truck was not parked on the access road, where was it parked?

There's at least two witnesses who've said they saw and adult person sitting in the Horman's truck during the time that TH and Kyron were touring the science fair. Where did they say they saw the white pick-up?

 

[ThoughtFox]

BBM

To be perfectly honest ThoughtFox - when I have to stretch every detail and make a gazillion assumptions so a person looks guilty, that's what I call "over thinking". Way too much work for me. moo mho

Personally I haven't had to stretch very much to see guilty stuff happening in this case. My "gazillion" assumptions, as you put it, are coming straight out of the Grand Jury and the facts as we know them so far.

Just my opinion.

 

[pufnstuf]

bbm

I think they knew about this guy from the get go. LE said they had talked to everyone from parents to delivery driver's etc. I doubt they overlooked him.

Gotta agree.

How many people have testified to the grand jury so far? Far more than we know, and they've testified to far more than we know, too.

 

[RubyRed]

It doesn't really sound to me as though they talked to him before. If they had, why talk to him tonight? They would have already had his whereabouts, etc.

I just don't think that LE is this inept that they would overlook someone who was outside the school mowing the same day a child disappears from that school. At that point in time everyone at that school would be a suspect. No stone would have been left unturned to find out who was there that fateful day. jmo

 

[mrsu]

And yet, TK said he saw *the truck* in the parking lot. Not on Skyline Blvd. & not on the soccer field access road.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html

“I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot,” he said Wednesday. Kessinger said Kyron was looking at other students’ science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends.

ETA: For some reason, it seems that TK's statements have perhaps possibly been forgotten over the weeks.

Yes...which is why I believe she FIRST parked in the south parking lot. I think this is also why the LE want some more information from whomever was parked in the parking lot. Perhaps they know what kind of vehicle was parked near the white truck and need more info. I also think then, someone else claims to have seen the truck either on the access road OR on the shoulder of the road, or maybe they had stopped for a brief min. on the shoulder before pulling onto the access road?

Would be interesting to know if witnesses remember which direction the truck was facing on the access road. It would obviously be facing out towards the street if it were the mower leaving. From the way they have placed the truck in the photos, they must know?

I think TH could have parked in the South lot, taken Kyron inside and then:

1. Goes back out to the truck as if she's leaving...maybe someone sees and assumes she's leaving. Pulls over to the shoulder then onto the access road, goes back into get him or has him meet her.

2. Has someone else with who is waiting in the truck. Moves the truck for TH and comes out with Kyron.

I think she drives to FM#1 (with Kyron, and Kitty?), runs inside, grabs a coffee (alibi), and out to the truck. From there, goes to pick up Dede and heads to FM#2. From 10-11:30....no clue.

11:30-12:30 TH goes to the gym. Leaves the gym. Goes back to pick up Dede (from where?) and drops her back at work about 1pm.

It's so frustrating. I want to vomit at the fact that Terri is prob sitting back and chuckling that LE isn't entirely on to her. Makes me so angry.