Skyline Groundskeeper says he saw no white truck -Timeline Clarified

[Calliope]

If that is the case, I am embarrassed for them. I mean really???? I am hoping so badly that isn't the case. I don't mean the Houze theory, I just mean LE putting together this whole PC about the truck...only to have it be a groundskeeper that they should have already been aware of. What bothers me about this is if it is a mistake on LE part....there goes any faith the public has in them as far as how they are handling the case......

Like I said, just my opinion. I'm sure Houze is working behind the scenes, in any case.

I wonder if it wasn't an accident that groundskeeper said he mowed until 8:30. Not left, mowed. The reporter was remiss in not clarifying that point, IMO.

IF LE comes out now and says "ok, tell us if you saw that truck parked on the access road between 8:30 and 8:45" ... and groundskeeper comes back with, 'hey, I didn't drive off the property until 8:40' or whatever, then I will begin to wonder if Houze really IS behind him coming forward like this. Hopefully one of the questions they asked this man is what time did he actually leave the school property.

Now if LE didn't know about this man until yesterday ... wow. The city and PPS could have easily told them who was working at Skyline that day. So I really can't believe they hadn't talked with this person early on.

Interesting tidbit ... Staton was elected to his office in a special election in May and is up for re-election in December.

 

[Calliope]

If I were to lift and carry 80 pounds or so of weight, I would struggle and have some degree of difficulty with it. My son, however, who weighs 210 and is 6 ft tall, would have no problem. If Kyron was unconscious or not 'breathing' a man could far more easily lift and carry his weight-in a tote or a suitcase. If alive and walking, I feel Kyron was a happy little chatterbox who would have called out or spoken to anyone he passed in the halls. Walking with Terri, they more than likely would have been noticed. id she sent him out a different door, he probably would have passed a few of his friends and told them where/when he was going. And I still think 'that cool electric exhibit' played SOME part in his disappearance. JMO

I agree.

That this man saw kids come out on that side of the school is chilling, IMO.

I think the school is going to end up having to answer to a lot, when this is all said and done.

 

[Chili Fries]

Seems like good news to me. If they didn't know this before then the press conference has at least uncovered this detail. Obviously, as others have said, Terri's truck could have been on the Skyline Blvd shoulder or on the access road after 8:30. Or the witness could have mistaken his truck for Terri's, perhaps it was hard to see the trailer from whatever vantage point the witness had. Even if it muddies the picture it's still very important for LE to have as much info as possible.

 

[gwenabob]

Like I said, just my opinion. I'm sure Houze is working behind the scenes, in any case.

I wonder if it wasn't an accident that groundskeeper said he mowed until 8:30. Not left, mowed. The reporter was remiss in not clarifying that point, IMO.

IF LE comes out now and says "ok, tell us if you saw that truck parked on the access road between 8:30 and 8:45" ... and groundskeeper comes back with, 'hey, I didn't drive off the property until 8:40' or whatever, then I will begin to wonder if Houze really IS behind him coming forward like this. Hopefully one of the questions they asked this man is what time did he actually leave the school property.

Now if LE didn't know about this man until yesterday ... wow. The city and PPS could have easily told them who was working at Skyline that day. So I really can't believe they hadn't talked with this person early on.

Interesting tidbit ... Staton was elected to his office in a special election in May and is up for re-election in December.

bbm
Stayton will have no difficulty winning any re-election campaign.

 

[Jade2010]

I wish they would re-search inside of the school, school grounds, all over back there.

 

[Calliope]

bbm
Stayton will have no difficulty winning any re-election campaign.

Just thinking how horrible to have a huge case like this a month after he takes office. Wow.


Do you know what position he held before he was elected sheriff? His experience, I mean.

 

[Calliope]

Gwen, do you think he'll have such an easy re-election if by the start of the school year they haven't made obvious progress in this case (i.e. an arrest) OR if (god help us) it turns out Terri may NOT be the one who took Kyron?

 

[krowdkat]

Okay, so she didn't park on the access road. Doesn't mean she didn't tell Kyron to come out of that side door and walk around to her car. That still could have happened. Or maybe she didn't park at all. Maybe she told him to come out, and she pulled the car around just as he got there, he gets in, and off they go. Why does she have to be parked to have done this? And for all we know, it was Dede getting that receipt, not Terri. Maybe the reason the baristas were in front of the Grand Jury for so long is because they didn't see Terri, but Dede, possibly with baby K. And maybe she tried to pass herself off as Terri, but it didn't work.

And since he's a city employee and not a school one, that could be why he was missed. Or maybe they did talk to him, but at that time they didn't have the information that a white truck could have been parked there. If the landscaper didn't see anything out of the ordinary, that's what he would have told them. The truck didn't come up until now, and only now could they ask him about that.

I'm just not ready to throw in the towel because she couldn't have parked on the access road. If she and Dede are innocent, why not shout it from the rooftops? Why all the secrecy and not talking? What could be more damning to cover then being accused of murdering a child? Nothing. Those two and their actions and not speaking don't add up for me.
And I don't want them to be guilty, but they are doing nothing to convince me that they aren't, and that's my whole problem.

BBM

I just keep thinking about the Lacy Peterson case. She was missing for nearly 5 months before her body (and her unborn child) washed ashore. LE didn't have much more than an affair and circumstancial evidence. Scott was convicted and sentenced to death in that case. TH even has more damning evidence against her, IMO. I'm not sitting on the fence at all in this one.

IMO, the ground maintenance guy in the white truck is simply that. It doesn't hurt or help this case. LE is just crossing their T's and dotting their I's.

 

[krowdkat]

I wish they would re-search inside of the school, school grounds, all over back there.

If Kryon were deceased in or around the school, the decomposition stench would have been very apparent, unless his body was buried deep below the surface. Plus I would have to believe the grounds keeper in this case would have noticed any new earth disturbances on the the school property.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Seriously, I don't know what to think anymore. My head is swirling with questions.

Could people have mistaken the groundsman's truck for Terri's that day?

Could people have assumed he was the "second person" near "her" truck that day when really he was just doing his job near his own truck?

If that chain is always locked, why does LE assume that she parked there if it is really not at all possible?

And if it is always locked, wouldn't LE by now have interviewed everyone who has a key?

I find it rather fascinating that the media hunted down this guy and talked to him yet LE apparently hadn't talked to him yet.

I am now, officially, on the fence for the first time ever. Lord knows what the 2 redheads were up to that day but now there are too many questions. Pass the chips please!

 

[Etilema]

Seriously, I don't know what to think anymore. My head is swirling with questions.

Could people have mistaken the groundsman's truck for Terri's that day?

Could people have assumed he was the "second person" near "her" truck that day when really he was just doing his job near his own truck?

If that chain is always locked, why does LE assume that she parked there if it is really not at all possible?

And if it is always locked, wouldn't LE by now have interviewed everyone who has a key?

I find it rather fascinating that the media hunted down this guy and talked to him yet LE apparently hadn't talked to him yet.

I am now, officially, on the fence for the first time ever. Lord knows what the 2 redheads were up to that day but now there are too many questions. Pass the chips please!

BBM

The chain separates the access road from the path that encompasses the soccer field. So even with the chain locked it IS possible to drive up onto the access road, but not to continue through to the path around the soccer field. A car could have been parked in the spot shown in the LE photos, even with the chain locked.

But, yes, it could have been the groundskeeper truck mistaken for the Hormans. Although it was only there during two brief times, while he was fiddling with the lock, and it has a trailer with a big red tractor on the back, it is possible someone's memory is faulty and left those details out.

JMO

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Thank you Etilema. I get it now.

There's a news video on this post (starting at around 3:10) which shows no chain where the truck was supposedly parked: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5510945&postcount=511"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - White Truck Focus and second person in truck.[/ame]

Big trailor behind the groundskeeper's truck throws my theory pretty much out the window.

Gah. This case is making me crazy! :banghead:

 

[ami]

Wait wait wait.

LE asked people to come forward about a white pickup truck that was in the access road in two positions between 8 and 845 am. The lawn guy drove in at 745 am. He stopped there for the first time to unlock the fence, but this was at 745, and apparently left at 830.

[since the reporter was asking him if he saw the truck, when he said he was there until 830 am I'm going to assume he meant that was when he left the school]

IF witnesses report two white pick up truck sightings (or a white truck in two different places on the access road) between 8 and 845am, then only one of those could have been this lawn guy stopping to re-lock the gate.

He would have been facing Skyline road, so I'm completely willing to believe they might not have seen the trailer with the red lawn mower on it. That's sighting number one. That makes sense. But that places one truck there around 830, while it was suggested by LE that there were TWO sightings between 8:00 - 8:45 am.

Also, they asked about people parked in the South lot of the school. My own guess about that was this is where Terri said she parked. Back before we had any news at all about the access road or a white truck seen there, I assumed Kyron was brought out of the school to the truck in the parking lot. The South lot is near some exit doors, so this made sense to me - she exited the building, got into her truck, counted on no one noticing.

IMO, the news about the access road was not a solution to any hole in the theory, but just another different place she may have been parked that morning. Not necessary for an abduction, just placing her *somewhere* - it could have been anywhere as far as I was concerned. Okay, she was in the South lot. Okay, she was near the road. Okay, someone was with her and she started out parking in the South lot and then mystery person moved the truck farther away from any school doors to the access road. That was never really part of the "Aha!" process because all that IMO was ever necessary for abduction was motive and willingness to abduct, and some amount of luck/planning for no one to have seen. And indeed no one DID see, whether it was Terri or a pedophile or Kyron wandering into the woods. Whether she was parked near an exit door in the South lot or near / in the access road away from the school.

 

[krowdkat]

I personally don't feel like the access road has anything to do with Kyron's disappearance. To me it's simply just LE following up on and closing out any potential leads. They probably had a tip that someone saw a white truck at that spot during the time mentioned. The tipster was right and now LE can move on to the next lead. JMHO

It doesn't help the defense of TH at all. Prosecution: White truck on access road explained away. Next!

 

[Calliope]

I personally don't feel like the access road has anything to do with Kyron's disappearance. To me it's simply just LE following up on and closing out any potential leads. They probably had a tip that someone saw a white truck at that spot during the time mentioned. The tipster was right and now LE can move on to the next lead. JMHO

It doesn't help the defense of TH at all. Prosecution: White truck on access road explained away. Next!

If Kyron is never found?

Houze: The State has built their case against my client based upon unreliable witness accounts, sheer speculation, media bias and questionnaires available online to any number of well-intentioned, *helpful* but misinformed souls wishing to download the forms for themselves. Next!

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Another scenario could be that the 2nd person in TH's truck saw the lawn guy leave in his truck and then pulled into the gravel side road after he left.

Kyron and TH exit the side door and hope in the truck.

If TH and 2nd person were in communication somehow (walkie talkies?) the truck could have pulled in, they got in, truck pulled out - within a minute.

Just a suggestion.

 

[Calliope]

Houze: By the way, anyone want to guess how many white, extended cab Ford pickup trucks are within a 2 hour radius of Portland?

 

[RubyRed]

If Kyron is never found?

Houze: The State has built their case against my client based upon unreliable witness accounts, sheer speculation, media bias and questionnaires available online to any number of well-intentioned, *helpful* but misinformed souls wishing to download the forms for themselves. Next!

It sure is going to be interesting how this all plays out. Where is Kyron?

 

[hollye]

Yes, it is a white Ford F-250 truck, but it is a single cab, has City of Portland lettering all over the side doors, and had big trailer with an even bigger mower on the back of it.

Is it possible that this is the truck that another witness saw that morning? Yes, but I think that they would have been able to tell LE about the writing on the side of the truck and/or the trailer & mower.

I personally believe that TMH parked her truck in the south parking area initially, but the truck was later moved, either by TMH or another individual, to a less conspicuous (from the school) location, such as the side of Skyline Blvd or the access road, after the City of Portland turf technician left the site, so Kyron could come out the North entrance, right by his class room, from the school, down the stairs by that door, which is surrounded by tall grass, along the tall grass to the end of the soccer field by the chain at the access road and into the truck unnoticed by anyone at the school.

On a a side note...I find it fascinating the varying populations of vehicles that are located in different parts of the country. Several times, since we became aware of the Horman's truck, I have driven to work and kept an eye out for White F-250 Quad Cab Full Bed Trucks and I have yet to see one on my 18 mile very populated journey through tons of construction along the highway. I've seen plenty of F-350, F-150 Dodge & Chevy trucks, but still have yet to see one identical to the Horman's. I find this interesting for some weird reason.

 

[BeanE]

I wish they would re-search inside of the school, school grounds, all over back there.

Me too. With a finetooth comb. I know there should have been a smell, I know there were children and staff in the school for 10 days after Kyron's disappearance, and they should have smelled something, but I'm just not convinced that Kyron is not in the school or on the grounds. I want another very careful search, with cadaver dogs.