Skyline Groundskeeper says he saw no white truck -Timeline Clarified

[nurseratchett]

I don't see anyone mistaking the Horman truck for this one, nor missing the tractor/mower.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm sure it matters in the long run, but I am far more concerned as to where Kyron is than where the truck was parked 2+ months ago...

All this truck/flyer stuff really makes me think that LE is building a case to prosecute without ever finding Kyron.

 

[rosiebean]

For me (who else would I be speaking for? LOL), it comes down to TH having a very tight timeline to take/murder/hide Kyron, whereas an unsub could've taken him between 9-10, and had several hours worth of time to do whatever it was the unsub did.

It's not magic, to me. It's simple logic. The less time you have, the harder it will be to do a crime. The longer time you have, the "better" the crime will be.

It could be luck. But if it was luck, TH used all her luck from this life and the next in this one act. There were too many times she could've been caught, and a short timespan in which to catch her making errors...and they haven't been able to.

But if it's a bad guy that no-one knows about, well then, the only luck he'd need is snatching Kyron. And I believe that the atmosphere was so chaotic that even that isn't a stretch.

Just moo, of course...but I can't help thinking that a bad guy is getting away with this, and that is horrific to me.

Best-
Herding Cats

It's not 'magic' to me either, it's logic. If TH had 'so little time' that she could have been caught...so could someone else. They too could have been 'caught in the act' leaving with a child who was not their own and the same timespan would apply to them...why would it not?

LE has said that TH is their last known witness to have seen Kryon, which means that no one else at the school saw him after 8:45ish. Thus, if TH did not take him from the school, whoever did so did so almost as soon as she last saw him...not between 9 and 10.

All it took was a few minutes to get Kyron out of that school, and those few minutes seem to have happened around 8:45. And if the atmosphere were so chaotic that no one would have noticed a stranger taking Kyron...then no one would have noticed TH taking him.

I'm not saying TH took him or didn't...I'm just saying if it's risky for TH to take him and not be 'caught' (caught taking your own child???) then it's just as or MORE risky for someone else to take them. And if it's odd (per other opinions floating around the 'net) that no one saw TH leave with Kyron then it's doubly odd that no one witnessed him leaving with someone he should not have been with...IMO.

 

[Calliope]

Well, if the reporter said it, I'll take it with a grain of salt, lol. Did the reporter mean the same 'spot' as in 'access road' or the same specific spot as in 'his truck was parked under the same tree LE showed the other white truck parked under'? (I don't know if there was a tree, don't remember, just saying there's a difference in second-hand information between 'same spot' meaning general area and 'same spot' meaning very specific spot.

And again, if the groundskeeper's truck was parked in the exact same spot as LE's picture...I'm shocked that the story wasn't "We've ID'd the white truck on the access road!".

Well the news people have no way of knowing if that's what someone saw, BUT at the end of the video she says his truck would have been stopped for a short time while he did the lock / unlock thing with the chain and they filmed him doing so, showing how him unlocking the padlock and pulling the chain free. His truck would have been where LE pictured the Horman's. Since they were with him at the time and filmed him demonstrating how he gets in and out of the field, I'm assuming he told them that's where he parks to unlock the chain and put it back on.

 

[rosiebean]

He could have been killed inside the school,and the killer could have taken his body out ....

All jmo

Certainly that's a possibility. Doesn't rule TH out, however. IMO.

 

[pufnstuf]

Not really getting why this is huge news. Nor why it would make anyone jump on or off the fence.

 

[Etilema]

Well the news people have no way of knowing if that's what someone saw, BUT at the end of the video she says his truck would have been stopped for a short time while he did the lock / unlock thing with the chain and they filmed him doing so, showing how him unlocking the padlock and pulling the chain free. His truck would have been where LE pictured the Horman's. Since they were with him at the time and filmed him demonstrating how he gets in and out of the field, I'm assuming he told them that's where he parks to unlock the chain and put it back on.

I'll bet that he doesn't back out of that access road. Which means on the way out his truck would be facing the other way. On the way in, the trailer and red tractor would be in clear view. JMO

 

[skylineneighbor]

I'm not so concerned about the truck as I am the children outside at any time that morning, in a group, that may not have had an adult present...

The raised beds are right in front of those K1 classrooms. The children would be as easy to spot outside through the many windows as that they are inside the classroom.

 

[rosiebean]

I would think that a pedophile most likely wouldn't have a toddler with him/her--seems like being empty-handed would help aid in this kind of act... MOO

True, someone other than TH would not have a toddler, but that does nothing, IMO, to mitigate their luck in getting Kyron out of the school without being seen. If it was somehow difficult for TH to exit with no one seeing her with Kyron, it was JUST as difficult that someone else did so. The fact is, as far as we know, NO ONE saw Kyron leave...which means whoever took him was very lucky, be it TH or someone else.

 

[cluciano63]

I am only seeing this news to be valuable due to the fact that this man says he saw a group of children outside of the school while he was working. They appeared to be unescorted from what we have heard.

I don't think anyone here is trying to "clear" Terri. I just think that some of us wish we were "in the know" as to any real evidence against her for this crime. It doesn't mean I think she is innocent but I would not vote "guilty" on what we've been allowed to hear.

 

[Calliope]

I don't see anyone mistaking the Horman truck for this one, nor missing the tractor/mower.

Depends on where they were when they saw it, their angle, and how long after the fact they came forward with this information. Keep in mind too that at the time no one was on the lookout for a white truck. People had no idea a little boy was about to be kidnapped from that school. Then factor in all the news about the case after the fact, pictures and talk about the white truck, and I can see where someone would remember seeing a white truck, and forgetting about any equipment surrounding it.

 

[liz b.]

I think that since Kyron looks like a school-aged child, some people might question or make a mental note of seeing him leave the school with his mom so early in the morning (possibly thoughts of, "Oh, he's not going to school today" or "That mom must have checked her son out of school")... Now, if I saw a mother leaving a school early in the morning with a toddler, that probably wouldn't phase me...

We're homeschoolers now, and people definitely notice (and question) our children out in public during school hours, lol!

Excellent point IMO Because a parent leaving with a child in the morning is going against the flow of parents and kids who are going INTO the school... Yes, I can easily visualize how they would indeed srand out. ....

All JMO

 

[maureen718]

LE either has lying witnesses... or no witnesses and they were fishing for info to fit a *theory only* on how she got Kyron out of the building. :cow:

This is depressing.

or is this guy the person and the truck "some" witnesses have come forward and reported seeing???? if I was a parent who had attended the SF on June 4th 10 weeks later I would still be racking my brain going over ad over the events of that morning at Skyline. It is possible some parents had recently thought hey I remember seeing a white truck on the access road that morning when I was pulling up, then go and report that to LE. I probably wouldn't remember there was a trailer attached but I would remember there was someone in or around that truck and I might not be able to describe the person I saw but I'd sure be able to say at this point if it was or was not TH. This may be just what LE is trying to clear up right now, did you see a suspicious person hanging out in the Horman truck? or did you see the guy who mows the lawn getting in or out of his truck that morning??

 

[matou]

I just don't think she had to be parked there to get him. I know the police are focusing on parked cars, but just because she wasn't parked there doesn't mean she couldn't have pulled the car around to get him as he walked down that path where no one could see him to the road.

Maybe Terri has been saying she was parked elsewhere or something, or maybe she said she was parked on that road. I highly doubt someone would mistake his truck for the Horman's truck. There was a trailer on it and that's hard to miss. The Horman truck did not have an attached trailer. And I, too, believe that he was out of there by 8:30, not packing up at 8:30. That still gives her plenty of time to get Kyron and not be seen.

It could be they're asking about parking to rule it out, not verify it. Like I said, she didn't have to be parked to get Kyron. I don't know why people think it couldn't have happened just because she wasn't parked in a particular spot. If she volunteered a lot at that school, then she had to know about the mowing of the soccer field, and planned accordingly for it. Makes sense to me.

Excellent thought, maybe LE are just going over tips and need to rule out certain things like where Terri said she parked.

 

[rosiebean]

Well the news people have no way of knowing if that's what someone saw, BUT at the end of the video she says his truck would have been stopped for a short time while he did the lock / unlock thing with the chain and they filmed him doing so, showing how him unlocking the padlock and pulling the chain free. His truck would have been where LE pictured the Horman's. Since they were with him at the time and filmed him demonstrating how he gets in and out of the field, I'm assuming he told them that's where he parks to unlock the chain and put it back on.

Ah, gotcha. True, it would have been there during the unlock/lock time.

Still, if he was mistaken for the other white truck...unlocking/locking the gate with the tractor and trailer on his truck, it makes me wonder about the supposed eyewitness and their eyesight. It *could* be possible that he'd be mistaken for TH's truck, but it's rather 'lucky' for the 'real perp' (if it's indeed not TH) that someone with a white truck with portland city stamping on the side...and trailer and equipment on the back...was mistaken for the TH truck and took up so much of LE's time. So much luck in this case.

I wonder...given where LE pictured the TH truck...so close to the chain...would it be visible or obviously noticable to someone mowing the soccer field while they were mowing? Certainly they'd see if entering and exiting...but while they were mowing, if it pulled up only for a few minutes? I'd love to know if some of the batphones were bought before or used that day...

 

[Herding Cats]

It's not 'magic' to me either, it's logic. If TH had 'so little time' that she could have been caught...so could someone else. They too could have been 'caught in the act' leaving with a child who was not their own and the same timespan would apply to them...why would it not?

LE has said that TH is their last known witness to have seen Kryon, which means that no one else at the school saw him after 8:45ish. Thus, if TH did not take him from the school, whoever did so did so almost as soon as she last saw him...not between 9 and 10.

Weren't there witnesses (the little boy, for example) which indicate that Kyron was seen after TH left? I mean, maybe they're not as reliable as we'd like, but if they're there (and I think they are), then we don't know exactly when Kyron was taken from the school...and according to the information I've read, the little boy and his teacher/chaperone were talking at/just around 10.

We do know he was marked absent at 10 am. We don't know when he left the school, or how he was taken.

All it took was a few minutes to get Kyron out of that school, and those few minutes seem to have happened around 8:45. And if the atmosphere were so chaotic that no one would have noticed a stranger taking Kyron...then no one would have noticed TH taking him.

True. But once the parents left, it wouldn't have been so chaotic; and the unsub may have been using luck at that point to get Kyron out with less risk of being caught - sort of at the tail end of things, probably around 9.

I'm not saying TH took him or didn't...I'm just saying if it's risky for TH to take him and not be 'caught' (caught taking your own child???) then it's just as or MORE risky for someone else to take them. And if it's odd (per other opinions floating around the 'net) that no one saw TH leave with Kyron then it's doubly odd that no one witnessed him leaving with someone he should not have been with...IMO.

I agree...it's odd no matter how you slice it.

Like Lacesprocket said, this case is crazy-making...makes my poor headie hurt.

'Nite, all...

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[eyes4crime]

Wow! I've read every comment on this thread - it's so interesting with so many great points to consider. Thanks :heart:

The grounds man seems alert and intelligent. His work around and on the school grounds certainly lends itself to the idea that he doesn't zone out, not with the possibility of children appearing out of nowhere. I do think having children around who could be hurt makes a difference in how one does a job. mhoo

Anyone counting on 15 minutes for an abduction is certainly not a planning kind of person. What if the the guy had a nose bleed, or had trouble with the mower or one of another gazillion things that could go wrong when on school grounds?

Who would abduct a child with only 15 minutes lee way time without considering the 15 minutes could dwindle to zero - certainly not someone who was supposed to have planned this for months. moo

I agree with all the fence sitters - it does get lonely up here. here's a chocolate latte for everyone and for those who can't eat chocolate, here is some herbal iced tea. I brought enough for everyone, even those who are standing on the ground! :heart:

 

[Calliope]

Ah, gotcha. True, it would have been there during the unlock/lock time.

Still, if he was mistaken for the other white truck...unlocking/locking the gate with the tractor and trailer on his truck, it makes me wonder about the supposed eyewitness and their eyesight. It *could* be possible that he'd be mistaken for TH's truck, but it's rather 'lucky' for the 'real perp' (if it's indeed not TH) that someone with a white truck with portland city stamping on the side...and trailer and equipment on the back...was mistaken for the TH truck and took up so much of LE's time. So much luck in this case.

I wonder...given where LE pictured the TH truck...so close to the chain...would it be visible or obviously noticable to someone mowing the soccer field while they were mowing? Certainly they'd see if entering and exiting...but while they were mowing, if it pulled up only for a few minutes? I'd love to know if some of the batphones were bought before or used that day...

I'm still trying to figure out where DeDe comes in if she arrived at the farm at 9 am and her car never left yet she was gone by 9:45 ....

IF someone was in Terri's truck (and it wasn't the groundskeeper the witness saw) then there's a third person involved. sheesh

 

[gardeness]

True, someone other than TH would not have a toddler, but that does nothing, IMO, to mitigate their luck in getting Kyron out of the school without being seen. If it was somehow difficult for TH to exit with no one seeing her with Kyron, it was JUST as difficult that someone else did so. The fact is, as far as we know, NO ONE saw Kyron leave...which means whoever took him was very lucky, be it TH or someone else.

I agree that it could be Terri--or it could have been someone else. Another way I think about it is that just as "luck" may have been with either abductor, either abductor would also have the same opportunity to make their plan for abduction...at this point, who knows how elaborate the plan was?

I don't know how pedophiles think, but I do feel this--pedophiles/kidnappers work in a way that is similar to terrorists. They have a plan and are constantly on the watch for their opportunity. We, the innocent by-standers, are just going about our business in our (for lack of a better word) comfortable way. They are watching and waiting to take advantage of any "weakness" we show--and when they see it, they pounce.

They could have been planning for months or years--that's what is scary about our world...we have to be aware that there are people "out there" who are just waiting for our one distracted moment...

 

[Calliope]

I agree that it could be Terri--or it could have been someone else. Another way I think about it is that just as "luck" may have been with either abductor, either abductor would also have the same opportunity to make their plan for abduction...at this point, who knows how elaborate the plan was?

I don't know how pedophiles think, but I do feel this--pedophiles/kidnappers work in a way that is similar to terrorists. They have a plan and are constantly on the watch for their opportunity. We, the innocent by-standers, are just going about our business in our (for lack of a better word) comfortable way. They are watching and waiting to take advantage of any "weakness" we show--and when they see it, they pounce.

They could have been planning for months or years--that's what is scary about our world...we have to be aware that there are people "out there" who are just waiting for our one distracted moment...

I posted this a while back. The report is terrifying; I've not had the nerve to try to look up the website (even though LE interviewed seems to suggest it):

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Exposing-the-Pedophile-Playbook-94891204.html