Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[captnchuck67]

Sustained,
Serious question. I am no expert but I have read a lot of the books by the former FBI profilers and the sort. Have you,because you will look at things a little different if not. You can see how SA or BD behavior does not fit a guilty persons and that RH gives off way too many warning signs that something was up. I think if the locals had the investigation taken away or overseen by the FBI there would have been way changed outcome.

 

[Sustained]

Sustained,
Serious question. I am no expert but I have read a lot of the books by the former FBI profilers and the sort. Have you,because you will look at things a little different if not. You can see how SA or BD behavior does not fit a guilty persons and that RH gives off way too many warning signs that something was up. I think if the locals had the investigation taken away or overseen by the FBI there would have been way changed outcome.

Hi Captnchuck67 -

I have not read any books by FBI profilers, but have watched a ton of crime shows and participated in various crime discussions. I would guess most FBI profilers look for certain things based on the severity of the crime and also look at the suspect's background, interaction with the victim, personal relationships, and current state of mind.

SA's background - abuse of women, violence, apparent sex addiction, behavior toward minors in his family such as grabbing girls, suspected rapes, drawing of a torture chamber in jail, etc would lead me to believe he had it in him to rape and murder TH. People make light of SA burning a cat to death, but that is not normal.
Neither is running a woman off the road @ gunpoint with a baby in the car. Steven also wrongly spent 18 years in state prison and I'm sure developed an inner rage that was bound to explode at some point.

As for BD, I think he both loved SA as an uncle and was deathly afraid of him. IMO, SA paid attention to him in a manner his father did not. Once again my opinion, but I think BD would have done anything for SA, including cover up a murder.

As for post-crime behavior, I don't believe there is a book on how a criminal behaves. Some are very good at lying and hiding the truth. Others like BD may withhold things initially, but a guilty conscious gets the best of them and they're eaten alive by guilt. I don't believe all of BD's confession is true, but I do believe bits and pieces and that helped SA cover up the murder. He was close to SA, even stating something to the effect of not wanting Steven being taken away from him again.

All MOO ...

 

[Karinna]

Dont want to sound like a ghoul but if you look at how the Nazis did their work,it took and average of 6 hours to go from start to finish and that was with a set up specially made and they still had tons of large bone fragments left.

(quote)
Interestingly, the descriptions of the bones were inconsistent. Dr. Eisenberg claimed to have pieced together fifty-eight fragments of skull bones from the burn pit. That is consistent with them finding a considerable number of fairly large pieces; yet Agent Pevytoe described seeing very small pieces of bone fragments.
“Yes, the fragmentation that I was finding from the burn pit was very small. Much of it was — in some cases was the size of half your little fingernail, if you will. Most of the bones were very fragmented there.” (Pevytoe testimony, day 18)
Pevytoe testified that three to four larger bones were found in the Janda burn barrel. If only a few bones were found in the barrel and tiny fragments were found in the burn pit, where did all the larger bones originate? This is a box of bones in evidence. Note that non-human charred bones were also found in each of the locations – burn pit, Janda barrel and quarry. Burnt insulation that appeared to be bone fragments was also found in the burn pit.
Scrutinizing the Bone Evidence – Teresa Halbach Investigation

 

[Karinna]

Am i the only one who finds the towel incident unimportant? It could happen to anyone and i think it means nothing.
She said something about it to someone else but it could easily be a smaller story then we make it out to be.

I have read SA had been in the swimming pool, so not unusual to come to the door in a towel IMO.

 

[captnchuck67]

Sustained ,
Read off this list. sorry if it is from another site
Top 10 FBI Criminal Profiling Books | Crime Traveller

 

[Karinna]

Hi Captnchuck67 -

I have not read any books by FBI profilers, but have watched a ton of crime shows and participated in various crime discussions. I would guess most FBI profilers look for certain things based on the severity of the crime and also look at the suspect's background, interaction with the victim, personal relationships, and current state of mind.

SA's background - abuse of women, violence, apparent sex addiction, behavior toward minors in his family such as grabbing girls, suspected rapes, drawing of a torture chamber in jail, etc would lead me to believe he had it in him to rape and murder TH. People make light of SA burning a cat to death, but that is not normal.
Neither is running a woman off the road @ gunpoint with a baby in the car. Steven also wrongly spent 18 years in state prison and I'm sure developed an inner rage that was bound to explode at some point.

As for BD, I think he both loved SA as an uncle and was deathly afraid of him. IMO, SA paid attention to him in a manner his father did not. Once again my opinion, but I think BD would have done anything for SA, including cover up a murder.

As for post-crime behavior, I don't believe there is a book on how a criminal behaves. Some are very good at lying and hiding the truth. Others like BD may withhold things initially, but a guilty conscious gets the best of them and they're eaten alive by guilt. I don't believe all of BD's confession is true, but I do believe bits and pieces and that helped SA cover up the murder. He was close to SA, even stating something to the effect of not wanting Steven being taken away from him again.

All MOO ...

BBM, Could you please provide a link to this information.
I have not read anywhere before some of those things you mention.
SA a sex addict??

 

[Sustained]

BBM, Could you please provide a link to this information.
I have not read anywhere before some of those things you mention.
SA a sex addict??

For starters ...

• Groping underage girls
• Suspected rape
• Masturbating on a public highway
• channels on cable service
• Admission to watching
• Lots of in the trailer
• Statement by Jodi about Steven wanting a lot of sex (looking for link)

From Reddit...

6. Sexual Misconduct with M.A. [teenage relative in 2004 - FJW]

M.A. will testify that she is the niece of Steven Avery, and that during the summer months of 2004, Avery had forced sexual intercourse with her. M.A. indicted that Avery had forced her hands over her head and had penis to vagina intercourse while lying on a bed at her aunt Barb's house (believed to be that of Barb Janda). M.A. will testify that she is afraid of Steven Avery, and that Avery threatened to kill her and hurt her family if she told anyone. Avery also told M.A. that if she told the police, that everyone in the family would hate her.

Possible witness includes Investigator Wendy Baldwin (Calumet County Sheriff's Department) who took the statement from M.A. about being sexually assaulted and threatened by Steven Avery.

Doris Weber, a friend of the Avery family, will testify that she previously spoke with Steven Avery about M.A., at which time Avery indicated he was "going with" M.A., and further admitted that he was having sex with her. Tammy Weber, daughter of Doris Weber, will testify that on one occasion, she heard Jodi Stachowski refer to M.A. as Steven Avery's "" and indicated that Steven has been " her."

Jodi Stachowski will testify that she believed Steven Avery and M.A. had a sexual relationship, as Avery told Stachowski that he and M.A. were sleeping together. Avery justified the relationship with his niece to Stachowski, saying that they were not "blood relatives." Stachowski told Investigator John Dederine (Calumet County Sheriff s Department) that Steven had sex with M.A. at least twice, telling lnvestigator Wiegert (Calumet County Sheriff's Department) that it happened once at Barb's house and once "up north." When asked how Steve described the encounters, Stachowski indicated that Steve said he " her."

7. Sexual Misconduct with J.A.R. [the 41-yr-old who in 2005 claimed SA raped her in 1982/83 - FJW]

J.A.R. (DOB --/-/64) will testify that in 1982 or 1983, while living with Steven and Lori Avery, she was sexually assaulted by Steven Avery. J.A.R. will describe the incident as she laying on the couch, when Avery came over and began fondling her, and after the victim said "no" Avery put his hand over her mouth and told her that "if you yell or scream there will be trouble." J.A.R. will describe penis to vagina sexual intercourse, and that it took approximately 15 to 20 minutes; she remembers it very well because she could hardly breathe as Avery was so heavy. J.A.R. indicates that she told some family members, but did not report it to the police at the time.

8. Prior Sexual History with Jodi Stachowski

9. Phone Conversation with Marie Litersky

Marie Litersky will testify that on October 30, 2005, while driving in a vehicle with her grandparents, she called the cell phone of her ex-boyfriend, Bryan Dassey, and that his uncle, Steven Avery, answered the phone. After a short conversation with Steven Avery, Litersky hung up the phone. A short time later, Litersky will indicate that her cell phone rang, and it was Steven Avery calling her back.Avery asked Litersky if she would like to "come over and have a little fun" and that "we can have the bed hit the wall real hard." Litersky told Avery that she would not come over to his house, and that he was wasting her cell minutes, and hung up the phone.

Special Agent Steven Lewis (DCI) is a possible witness having interviewed Marie Litersky about the solicitation made by Avery on l0/30/05.


https://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Making-A-Murderer-letters-letter-DOC.pdf

 

[captnchuck67]

okay if they had a case then why did they not lock him up then? In those type of cases they move fast. As for the and preoccupation with sex,please guy was locked up for 18 years.

 

[Sustained]

okay if they had a case then why did they not lock him up then? In those type of cases they move fast. As for the and preoccupation with sex,please guy was locked up for 18 years.

Even more concerning than the was his tendency toward violence with women. There are plenty of examples of that ... ex-wife Lori, ex-girlfriend Jodi and threats against other women/girls who might rat him out for sexual advances and more.

 

[captnchuck67]

hearsay,so firm proof. No pictures of the violence if I remember correctly

 

[Sustained]

hearsay,so firm proof. No pictures of the violence if I remember correctly

It's all hearsay until it happens over and over and over. I believe his ex-wife Lori spent a number of nights at a domestic abuse center and IIRC, there was a court case in Manitowoc detailing some of the abuse by Steven.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

okay if they had a case then why did they not lock him up then? In those type of cases they move fast. As for the and preoccupation with sex,please guy was locked up for 18 years.

Yeah, exactly. I’m not trying to give the guy a pass or anything, but I don’t see the significance.

And doesn’t 15-20 minutes for a rape sound like a really long time!?

I watch a lot of crime and cold case shows and there always seem to be suspects that are so shady and suspicious but in the end, it isn’t them. I see SA very much like that. He’s not a good guy, he’s done many questionable things. I think he was raised terribly backwards and never given actual instruction on how to be a decent human, and his family tree is full of the same kind of people. But when I look at the actual evidence used to convict him, I just don’t see how it adds up to guilt.

 

[Sustained]

Yeah, exactly. I’m not trying to give the guy a pass or anything, but I don’t see the significance.

And doesn’t 15-20 minutes for a rape sound like a really long time!?

I watch a lot of crime and cold case shows and there always seem to be suspects that are so shady and suspicious but in the end, it isn’t them. I see SA very much like that. He’s not a good guy, he’s done many questionable things. I think he was raised terribly backwards and never given actual instruction on how to be a decent human, and his family tree is full of the same kind of people. But when I look at the actual evidence used to convict him, I just don’t see how it adds up to guilt.

There are multiple incidents of Avery molesting young girls and at least one accusation of rape. None of those were reported due to threats by Avery of killing them or their families.

If any of the above is true, why would anyone think that Avery wouldn't have raped TH ? And maybe it started as a rape until he decided he couldn't let her live as she saw him. I have no doubt in my mind he raped and killed TH and will die in prison despite KZ's best efforts to clear him.

 

[captnchuck67]

I dont new gov might do something

 

[missy1974]

There are multiple incidents of Avery molesting young girls and at least one accusation of rape. None of those were reported due to threats by Avery of killing them or their families.

If any of the above is true, why would anyone think that Avery wouldn't have raped TH ? And maybe it started as a rape until he decided he couldn't let her live as she saw him. I have no doubt in my mind he raped and killed TH and will die in prison despite KZ's best efforts to clear him.

The incident with his niece was investigated, it's in the CASO report. He was not charged.

 

[CoolJ]

There are multiple incidents of Avery molesting young girls and at least one accusation of rape. None of those were reported due to threats by Avery of killing them or their families.

If any of the above is true, why would anyone think that Avery wouldn't have raped TH ? And maybe it started as a rape until he decided he couldn't let her live as she saw him. I have no doubt in my mind he raped and killed TH and will die in prison despite KZ's best efforts to clear him.

You are grossly over exaggerating false reports and/or completely making stuff up. I don’t know why. But you are.

 

[Karinna]

For starters ...

• Groping underage girls
• Suspected rape
• Masturbating on a public highway
• channels on cable service
• Admission to watching
• Lots of in the trailer
• Statement by Jodi about Steven wanting a lot of sex (looking for link)

From Reddit...

6. Sexual Misconduct with M.A. [teenage relative in 2004 - FJW]

M.A. will testify that she is the niece of Steven Avery, and that during the summer months of 2004, Avery had forced sexual intercourse with her. M.A. indicted that Avery had forced her hands over her head and had penis to vagina intercourse while lying on a bed at her aunt Barb's house (believed to be that of Barb Janda). M.A. will testify that she is afraid of Steven Avery, and that Avery threatened to kill her and hurt her family if she told anyone. Avery also told M.A. that if she told the police, that everyone in the family would hate her.

Possible witness includes Investigator Wendy Baldwin (Calumet County Sheriff's Department) who took the statement from M.A. about being sexually assaulted and threatened by Steven Avery.

Doris Weber, a friend of the Avery family, will testify that she previously spoke with Steven Avery about M.A., at which time Avery indicated he was "going with" M.A., and further admitted that he was having sex with her. Tammy Weber, daughter of Doris Weber, will testify that on one occasion, she heard Jodi Stachowski refer to M.A. as Steven Avery's "*****" and indicated that Steven has been "******* her."

Jodi Stachowski will testify that she believed Steven Avery and M.A. had a sexual relationship, as Avery told Stachowski that he and M.A. were sleeping together. Avery justified the relationship with his niece to Stachowski, saying that they were not "blood relatives." Stachowski told Investigator John Dederine (Calumet County Sheriff s Department) that Steven had sex with M.A. at least twice, telling lnvestigator Wiegert (Calumet County Sheriff's Department) that it happened once at Barb's house and once "up north." When asked how Steve described the encounters, Stachowski indicated that Steve said he "****** her."

7. Sexual Misconduct with J.A.R. [the 41-yr-old who in 2005 claimed SA raped her in 1982/83 - FJW]

J.A.R. (DOB --/-/64) will testify that in 1982 or 1983, while living with Steven and Lori Avery, she was sexually assaulted by Steven Avery. J.A.R. will describe the incident as she laying on the couch, when Avery came over and began fondling her, and after the victim said "no" Avery put his hand over her mouth and told her that "if you yell or scream there will be trouble." J.A.R. will describe penis to vagina sexual intercourse, and that it took approximately 15 to 20 minutes; she remembers it very well because she could hardly breathe as Avery was so heavy. J.A.R. indicates that she told some family members, but did not report it to the police at the time.

8. Prior Sexual History with Jodi Stachowski

9. Phone Conversation with Marie Litersky

Marie Litersky will testify that on October 30, 2005, while driving in a vehicle with her grandparents, she called the cell phone of her ex-boyfriend, Bryan Dassey, and that his uncle, Steven Avery, answered the phone. After a short conversation with Steven Avery, Litersky hung up the phone. A short time later, Litersky will indicate that her cell phone rang, and it was Steven Avery calling her back.Avery asked Litersky if she would like to "come over and have a little fun" and that "we can have the bed hit the wall real hard." Litersky told Avery that she would not come over to his house, and that he was wasting her cell minutes, and hung up the phone.

Special Agent Steven Lewis (DCI) is a possible witness having interviewed Marie Litersky about the solicitation made by Avery on l0/30/05.


https://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Making-A-Murderer-letters-letter-DOC.pdf

The pdf. link you provided is a 2 page letter from supposedly SA to whom? Nothing really terrible in it that i can see. Talking about sex to whoever the letter is to that he purports to be in love with?
And watching far as i know is not illegal, lots of people do that. And from LE obtaining Avery's PC at the time, there was nothing on it worthy of noting, unlike BoD's PC content.
Who is M.A.?

 

[Karinna]

There are multiple incidents of Avery molesting young girls and at least one accusation of rape. None of those were reported due to threats by Avery of killing them or their families.

If any of the above is true, why would anyone think that Avery wouldn't have raped TH ? And maybe it started as a rape until he decided he couldn't let her live as she saw him. I have no doubt in my mind he raped and killed TH and will die in prison despite KZ's best efforts to clear him.

Deleted

 

[Karinna]

There are multiple incidents of Avery molesting young girls and at least one accusation of rape. None of those were reported due to threats by Avery of killing them or their families.

If any of the above is true, why would anyone think that Avery wouldn't have raped TH ? And maybe it started as a rape until he decided he couldn't let her live as she saw him. I have no doubt in my mind he raped and killed TH and will die in prison despite KZ's best efforts to clear him.

In the first portion of your post, where are you getting this information from?

 

[Poedelini]

You have been reading the CASO report... have you read the Zipperer interviews??? LOL that was a HOT MESS!

Bear with me, im still reading for probably weeks if not months.

For starters ...

• Groping underage girls
• Suspected rape
• Masturbating on a public highway
• channels on cable service
• Admission to watching
• Lots of in the trailer
• Statement by Jodi about Steven wanting a lot of sex (looking for link)

From Reddit...

6. Sexual Misconduct with M.A. [teenage relative in 2004 - FJW]

M.A. will testify that she is the niece of Steven Avery, and that during the summer months of 2004, Avery had forced sexual intercourse with her. M.A. indicted that Avery had forced her hands over her head and had penis to vagina intercourse while lying on a bed at her aunt Barb's house (believed to be that of Barb Janda). M.A. will testify that she is afraid of Steven Avery, and that Avery threatened to kill her and hurt her family if she told anyone. Avery also told M.A. that if she told the police, that everyone in the family would hate her.

Possible witness includes Investigator Wendy Baldwin (Calumet County Sheriff's Department) who took the statement from M.A. about being sexually assaulted and threatened by Steven Avery.

Doris Weber, a friend of the Avery family, will testify that she previously spoke with Steven Avery about M.A., at which time Avery indicated he was "going with" M.A., and further admitted that he was having sex with her. Tammy Weber, daughter of Doris Weber, will testify that on one occasion, she heard Jodi Stachowski refer to M.A. as Steven Avery's "*****" and indicated that Steven has been "******* her."

Jodi Stachowski will testify that she believed Steven Avery and M.A. had a sexual relationship, as Avery told Stachowski that he and M.A. were sleeping together. Avery justified the relationship with his niece to Stachowski, saying that they were not "blood relatives." Stachowski told Investigator John Dederine (Calumet County Sheriff s Department) that Steven had sex with M.A. at least twice, telling lnvestigator Wiegert (Calumet County Sheriff's Department) that it happened once at Barb's house and once "up north." When asked how Steve described the encounters, Stachowski indicated that Steve said he "****** her."

7. Sexual Misconduct with J.A.R. [the 41-yr-old who in 2005 claimed SA raped her in 1982/83 - FJW]

J.A.R. (DOB --/-/64) will testify that in 1982 or 1983, while living with Steven and Lori Avery, she was sexually assaulted by Steven Avery. J.A.R. will describe the incident as she laying on the couch, when Avery came over and began fondling her, and after the victim said "no" Avery put his hand over her mouth and told her that "if you yell or scream there will be trouble." J.A.R. will describe penis to vagina sexual intercourse, and that it took approximately 15 to 20 minutes; she remembers it very well because she could hardly breathe as Avery was so heavy. J.A.R. indicates that she told some family members, but did not report it to the police at the time.

8. Prior Sexual History with Jodi Stachowski

9. Phone Conversation with Marie Litersky

Marie Litersky will testify that on October 30, 2005, while driving in a vehicle with her grandparents, she called the cell phone of her ex-boyfriend, Bryan Dassey, and that his uncle, Steven Avery, answered the phone. After a short conversation with Steven Avery, Litersky hung up the phone. A short time later, Litersky will indicate that her cell phone rang, and it was Steven Avery calling her back.Avery asked Litersky if she would like to "come over and have a little fun" and that "we can have the bed hit the wall real hard." Litersky told Avery that she would not come over to his house, and that he was wasting her cell minutes, and hung up the phone.

Special Agent Steven Lewis (DCI) is a possible witness having interviewed Marie Litersky about the solicitation made by Avery on l0/30/05.


https://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Making-A-Murderer-letters-letter-DOC.pdf

I think we all know he wasn't the nicest person but there is still a line between that and murder he had to go through. That and in combination with the evidence. It just doesn't fit.