Student suspended for sexual harassment after hugging teacher

[Hejlena]

I really have an issue with this whole "He was just expressing his affection in a healthy way and we're being too hard on the boy" argument. Again, if he was six, maybe a different tactic. Frankly I doubt this teacher was his only victim-yes I said victim.

The school in in a position of a student repeatedly engaging in unwanted touching. Kid minimizes. Mom minimizes. Which tells me neither one of them are going to take it seriously enough to attempt change or get help.

So yeah-one year suspension? Nah. Don't come back until you get help or show us that we are safe from your unwanted touching.

 

[Snoods]

The school says the boy had been warned about inappropriately hugging this teacher in the past. So something as serious as the teacher considered bordering on sexual harassment had been broached to this student before, but his parents had not been notified? I just don't find it probable that there is no written record of this. I think they are scrambling to justify it now that it has become so public. I know if my son was so much as tardy to class more than three times I got a slip from the school that I had to sign and return.

I guess my first visceral reaction to this was based on my own son's personal experiences in high school. My son was very fortunate in that he had positive, close relationships with many of his teachers. He is now 22 and still keeps in contact with several of his former teachers, attending their weddings and was even at the hospital for the birth of one of his coach's children. He visits their homes often. A hug would not have been out of the ordinary at all, even while he was in high school.

Granted, I do understand this teacher did not welcome this hug. But IMO the punishment is so far out of proportion to the "crime."

 

[EGirl]

Let me ask you what is it about this kid that you refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt? Why do you believe her version ?




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When I first 'read' the story... I thought 'Oh geez, more PC gone too far'. Then, I watched the video and his interview.

The hair on the back of my neck stood up.

JMO

He's a predator in a multitude of ways IMO and he pushes every boundary he can. WHY AREN'T HIS PARENTS SEEKING PSYCHIATRIC HELP?

Bookmark his name... this is not the last we'll hear of him. Again, JMO.

 

[Hejlena]

Geeze! Not ONE person has addressed my question! If this was a girl hugger would you feel the same way and would you think a one year suspension was justified?

I have worked in education for 20+ years. This hug happened in the cafeteria. Teachers do not supervise lunch. Paras do. This "teacher" I suspect is really a para, with little to no education outside of a high school diploma or a GED.

Again, I will agree that any person. .. man, woman, adult, child has the right to define their personal boundaries. I'm not arguing that.

However, at what point do we criminalize normal behavior and healthy emotional expression? Good gawd! He did not slap her *ss, grab her t*ts, or pin her in a corner and declare he was going to r*pe her. He did not proclaim that he wanted to tap her *ss, or relentlessly pursue her and try to get her number. It was a friggin hug that was not well received! And IMHO was very ambiguous with regards to it's acceptance. This was as much the teacher's failure as the student's!

I have serious fears about what we are doing to our boys. . and our own sons. . . in this society. There is a well renowned psychologist named William Pollack. He devoted his life to studying boys. Google him and read his work. . . I beg you!!!!!

So, again, I ask you, if the hugger was a girl, how would you feel? Boys have the same emotional needs as girls. When we sexualize everything they do and shame them for it, we are part of the problem! Read the research! Boys feel isolated and alone. The are depressed and suicidal. We shouldn't be surprised at all when our young sons shoot up schools.

God help us!!!

ETA- MOO.. Moo. .. moo! With years of experience in education, it is my personal perception ONLY, that this young man is most likely gay. And IMHO is looking for validation and affection. And. . .what did he receive, and more importantly, what did that teach him? What have his peers learned through his experience? Just who exactly are the children and who are the educated adults? Just food for thought.[/QUOTE]

Not sure how you could judge a person's sexual orientation from that but ok, I'll bite: Gay men (or women) don't get to repeatedly violate personal space or physical boundaries either, even if they're "just looking for validation and acceptance". And hopefully what this taught him is that it is not okay, in fact it is illegal, to sexually harass another person. Gay or straight. Man or woman. Can't do it. Not good. I think the adults in this situation are doing a fine job.

 

[hambirg]

How does this woman being "only a para" make her personal boundaries fluid?

This isn't a boys will be boys issue. This isn't a six year old kissing a playmate on the cheek. This is a seventeen year old boy who, based on the information given, is repeatedly attempting to violate a boundary that has been clearly outlined for him.

And if it were a female student repeatedly hugging a teacher after being asked not to do so? Well I don't know but I'm guessing the disciplinary policy covers both genders.

Finally, your criteria for the words that need to be said or the actions perpetrated on a person before they are to be considered victims of unwanted physical touching are really quite frightening.

Signed, only a para

BBM

Please point me to anything that points to that being fact.

Again, the "teacher's" body language says otherwise. Anyone can talk til they're blue in the face, but body language doesn't lie. She was OK with him putting his arm around her. He shouldn't be severely punished if he misinterpreted her mixed message gesture. If nothing else, as an educator, she should admit that she sent a mixed message and that he may have misunderstood it.

Just recently we have this case and the case of the 6yr old boy that was labeled a "sexual harasser" for showing his affection to his little girlfriend. . .it was reported that she didn't protest and his behavior was welcomed. Can you point me to ANY cases where girls have suffered the same fate as these boys?

 

[Yoda]

I think suspending him for the rest of his senior year is severe, but several things were taken into consideration that we have no knowledge of. The school can not release the information, and if it would make SM look bad then I don't think we will be hearing it from him, his mom , or his attorney.
Male or female, hugging is not appropriate without consent from both parties. This was not an arm around the shoulder. This was two arms around someone else's body. He also did not come from the front to give her the opportunity to put her hands up and stop him.

I am curious, for those that believe the teacher never told him to stop hugging her and has let him hug her four or five times before, then why did she file a complaint this time? If she didn't have a problem before then why all of the sudden report him?

MOO And lastly, after further research, this young man seems to have some strong feelings about his future and the goals he has set for himself. I think he can, and will, learn something from this if he can admit and take accountability for his actions. A lessor punishment would also benefit his future.
PS Mom, Your son looks up to you so much. That's where I see a good soul. Now get online and have him delete a few photos.

 

[Hejlena]

The school says the boy had been warned about inappropriately hugging this teacher in the past. So something as serious as the teacher considered bordering on sexual harassment had been broached to this student before, but his parents had not been notified? I just don't find it probable that there is no written record of this. I think they are scrambling to justify it now that it has become so public. I know if my son was so much as tardy to class more than three times I got a slip from the school that I had to sign and return.

I guess my first visceral reaction to this was based on my own son's personal experiences in high school. My son was very fortunate in that he had positive, close relationships with many of his teachers. He is now 22 and still keeps in contact with several of his former teachers, attending their weddings and was even at the hospital for the birth of one of his coach's children. He visits their homes often. A hug would not have been out of the ordinary at all, even while he was in high school.

Granted, I do understand this teacher did not welcome this hug. But IMO the punishment is so far out of proportion to the "crime."

The school can't release their prior communication with the parent if there is any, which IMO there is plenty. And she is not going to release it because it doesn't serve her "my son is the victim here" agenda.

Again, I don't see this as an issue of not fostering close relationships between students and teachers. I myself have many close relationships in my life, and none of them involve unwanted touching.

The justification of this boy's actions is indicative of our rape culture, IMO. Again, we are going by what the reports are, and the reports are of repeated, unwanted touching. A hug is touching, and if it's unwanted, it's unwanted. And if it's repeatedly unwanted, it's harrassment.

 

[hambirg]

I would feel the same way if the hugger were a girl. Boundaries were crossed, innocent hug or not. She has the right to decide who touches her and when. Period.

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Hambirg <3 Tawny! You know that!

And I am not disagreeing with that. She is absolutely entitled to her boundaries.

HOWEVER, (you knew that was coming!) does that justify the school's response? Do we really know she had established those boundaries? Just reading her body language, it appears that she hasn't been so clear about her wants. So do we punish this kid? He disengages as soon as it was clear that she wanted the hug to end.

The way I see it, if a co-worker that you have been friendly with asks you over for drinks and a movie and you tell him "hell no!" and he respects that. Does he get fired for sexual harassment. . or was it just an honest gesture. . .maybe it wasn't sexual in nature at all? If he does get fired, how does that effect him and how does that impact the other men that you work with? Doesn't that send a message that men are not allowed to be friends with women without it being misconstrued? There must be something wrong with a man that just wants to be friends with a coworker that happens to be a woman.

Do we really think that everything a male does is motivated by sex? Geez, I hope not.

 

[jjenny]

Her body language? You gotta be kidding. He hugged her from behind and she pushed him away.

 

[hambirg]

I really have an issue with this whole "He was just expressing his affection in a healthy way and we're being too hard on the boy" argument. Again, if he was six, maybe a different tactic. Frankly I doubt this teacher was his only victim-yes I said victim.

The school in in a position of a student repeatedly engaging in unwanted touching. Kid minimizes. Mom minimizes. Which tells me neither one of them are going to take it seriously enough to attempt change or get help.

So yeah-one year suspension? Nah. Don't come back until you get help or show us that we are safe from your unwanted touching.

But do we know that as fact?

Btw. . .I wasn't poo-pooing on para's. I was one for over eight years, before I became a teacher. I was just pointing out that they may not have the education that most people assume that people working in schools have. There are excellent para's, regardless of their educational level. . and there are some that are not so great.

 

[jjenny]

But do we know that as fact?

Btw. . .I wasn't poo-pooing on para's. I was one for over eight years, before I became a teacher. I was just pointing out that they may not have the education that most people assume that people working in schools have. There are excellent para's, regardless of their educational level. . and there are some that are not so great.

What in the world is a "para?" I never heard that term before.

 

[Fairy1]

Hambirg <3 Tawny! You know that!

And I am not disagreeing with that. She is absolutely entitled to her boundaries.

HOWEVER, (you knew that was coming!) does that justify the school's response? Do we really know she had established those boundaries? Just reading her body language, it appears that she hasn't been so clear about her wants. So do we punish this kid? He disengages as soon as it was clear that she wanted the hug to end.

The way I see it, if a co-worker that you have been friendly with asks you over for drinks and a movie and you tell him "hell no!" and he respects that. Does he get fired for sexual harassment. . or was it just an honest gesture. . .maybe it wasn't sexual in nature at all? If he does get fired, how does that effect him and how does that impact the other men that you work with? Doesn't that send a message that men are not allowed to be friends with women without it being misconstrued? There must be something wrong with a man that just wants to be friends with a coworker that happens to be a woman.

Do we really think that everything a male does is motivated by sex? Geez, I hope not.

This isn't a case involving two consenting adults - or two teenagers. It's a student and a teacher. The physical contact - under any circumstances, IMO, is inappropriate.

 

[hambirg]

Her body language? You gotta be kidding. He hugged her from behind and she pushed him away.

Uh. . .watch the video again. He approached her from the side. She grabbed his hand. And taking that as a cue, whether that was a misinterpretation or not, he proceeded to hug her. . from the side! He NEVER hugged her from behind!

 

[jjenny]

Uh. . .watch the video again. He approached her from the side. She grabbed his hand. And taking that as a cue, whether that was a misinterpretation or not, he proceeded to hug her. . from the side! He NEVER hugged her from behind!

Maybe you should watch it again. I see both her hands in front of her when he starts to hug her.

 

[Snoods]

The school can't release their prior communication with the parent if there is any, which IMO there is plenty. And she is not going to release it because it doesn't serve her "my son is the victim here" agenda.

Again, I don't see this as an issue of not fostering close relationships between students and teachers. I myself have many close relationships in my life, and none of them involve unwanted touching.

The justification of this boy's actions is indicative of our rape culture, IMO. Again, we are going by what the reports are, and the reports are of repeated, unwanted touching. A hug is touching, and if it's unwanted, it's unwanted. And if it's repeatedly unwanted, it's harrassment.

I do see both sides of this, I really do. But I think referring to the boy as part of the rape culture may be a bit strong. I do realize the teacher may not have wanted the hug. But comparing an unwanted hug to a rape is unfair to rape victims, I believe. I have never been a victim of rape so I'm not speaking for anyone, just my opinion.

The boy and his family are denying the reports, so I guess I'll just wait to see what happens before I make a firm decision. At this point, I'm siding with the boy in that I believe the punishment is way too severe.

 

[Fairy1]

But do we know that as fact?

Btw. . .I wasn't poo-pooing on para's. I was one for over eight years, before I became a teacher. I was just pointing out that they may not have the education that most people assume that people working in schools have. There are excellent para's, regardless of their educational level. . and there are some that are not so great.

BBM. Again, are they unable to determine whether they want someone to initiate physical contact or not?

 

[Linda7NJ]

This isn't a case involving two consenting adults - or two teenagers. It's a student and a teacher. The physical contact - under any circumstances, IMO, is inappropriate.

I disagree.

When my father died...my sons grandfather... My son took it very hard as they were very close. I was so thankful a few of his teachers cared enough to hug him when he was having a particularly bad day and broke down crying.

He was hugged and high fived by coaches and team mates. There was hugging going on at 8th grade graduation and at the end of every school year. I don't see it any differently from hand shakes and back slaps or pats.

I was late picking my son up after school one day because I had just been at the emergency vet and had to have my dog put to sleep. I musta looked awful ( had been crying) because when the principle saw me, he asked what was the matter. I couldnt even speak... Just started crying again. He hugged me and I was thankful. He didn't even know what was wrong... I just obviously was in need of some compassion...and the hug did help. He asked if there was anything he could do. That's what I needed in that moment,

When a child or anyone for that matter spends a large portion of the day with mentors, teachers, sitters whatever I would expect some sort of bonding to go on. I don't think hugging someone that seems to be having a bad day is a bad thing.



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[Fairy1]

I disagree.

When my father died...my sons grandfather... My son took it very hard as they were very close. I was so thankful a few of his teachers cared enough to hug him when he was having a particularly bad day and broke down crying.

He was hugged and high fived by coaches and team mates. There was hugging going on at 8th grade graduation and at the end of every school year. I don't see it any differently from hand shakes and back slaps or pats.

I was late picking my son up after school one day because I had just been at the emergency vet and had to have my dog put to sleep. I musta looked awful ( had been crying) because when the principle saw me, he asked what was the matter. I couldnt even speak... Just started crying again. He hugged me and I was thankful. He didn't even know what was wrong... I just obviously was in need of some compassion...and the hug did help. He asked if there was anything he could do. That's what I needed in that moment,





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And how old was your son when that happened? And you were an adult when you were comforted by the, I assume, adult principle?

Hugs are great, I agree. But there is an appropriate time and place.

I see dozens of people every day who look like the "need a hug." I don't act on that because.....it would just be awkward.

 

[hambirg]

This isn't a case involving two consenting adults - or two teenagers. It's a student and a teacher. The physical contact - under any circumstances, IMO, is inappropriate.

I never argued that it wasn't inappropriate, or that the teacher wasn't entitled to her boundaries. BUT please show me the research that shows that a students need for physical validation is not warranted or needed.

Look. . .someone could work in an orphanage where it is recommended that staff have no physical contact with the children. Maybe there have been staff that have overstepped boundaries in the past. Any physical contact could be deemed inappropriate. But please show me ANY research that this "no contact" policy is really in the best interest of the children. We know it's not.

When you devote your life to the education of children, part of that is knowing that every child is different. Their needs are different. If a child oversteps their bounds, it is on you, as a fully educated adult, to deal with it. Sorry, a teacher has full authority over a child, and to behave as if they are somehow a helpless victim that has no other choice but to severely impact as child's life. . .. sorry . . ..maybe they should go seek out another type of employment. Clearly teaching and working with children is not for them.

 

[LadyL]

What does a one-year suspension accomplish that an old-fashioned 2-week suspension did not? Other than seriously derail the student's education.

When I was teaching I wasn't always comfortable with being touched by (college) students but I assumed the problem was MINE. Why should they be punished because I come from a family where people don't touch each other? Lots of families and ethnic groups are very "hands on". I'm not saying it's okay to grab somebody's crotch, but why do the non-touchers get to set all the boundaries?

[bbm]

um, because it's my space that someone else is invading ... it's my body and my right to set the boundaries for access to my space/body