The actual vs. desired outcome

[JMO8778]

Also false. Rather, another deliberate generalization to portray character.

When JR carried JBR upstairs from the basement, the parents didn't stop talking to LE.

nah,JR just got on the phone to his pilot and tried to high-tail it out of town,20 mins after JB's body was found! Does that sound like the actions of an innocent parent?

...for some reason,I get the feeling this entire thread is going to go on and on forever !

 

[JMO8778]

This is false.

Of course they answered police questions before April 1997.

that's not the same as being interrogated by LE,and they both knew it.it took them 4 MONTHS to get themselves down there to LEHQ and talk to police!!!

It makes sense though for RDI to make this claim, because it portrays character. Lacking hard evidence against the R's, defamation is the only thing RDI has to do.

why would any of us do that? we don't know the R's;I certainly wouldn't waste my time here if I didn't believe them guilty,and I don't think any of the other RDI's would either.

Eventually, RDI has to ask why there's no hard, corroborative evidence against the parents.

surely you jest..

 

[DeeDee249]

Judge Carnes never even saw/read the evidence. We all know why the DA in Boulder and the courts there wanted this case to disappear.

 

[BOESP]

Judge Carnes never even saw/read the evidence. We all know why the DA in Boulder and the courts there wanted this case to disappear.

Here's a link to an interesting perspective on Carnes's opinion:

http://crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-carnes.htm .

 

[Solace]

This is false.

Of course they answered police questions before April 1997. It makes sense though for RDI to make this claim, because it portrays character. Lacking hard evidence against the R's, defamation is the only thing RDI has to do. Eventually, RDI has to ask why there's no hard, corroborative evidence against the parents.

How come you're claiming that the cord fibers were rope fibers, and then telling me to go look for facts supporting rope fiber? There was no rope fiber in JBR's bed, thats an RDI fabrication.

Holdon.

Check out Judge Carne's decision. Also regarding this rope Callan, it is obvious that the rope around her neck, just from looking at it, is different from the rope in the portfolio picture, isn't it?

 

[Solace]

Here's a link to an interesting perspective on Carnes's opinion:

http://crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-carnes.htm .

Love it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I don't recall from memory to be sure so I won't admit or submit anything about the cord being in her bed or not being her bed. You brought up the issue if I remember correctly so the onus of supporting your statement is on you not me. My view is that white cord fibers in the bed implies the cord found on JonBenet was applied upstairs. To do that then to use a broken paintbrush from the basement where brush fragments are found is, to me, more evidence of disorganization and staging, both of which point to a parent in my opinion.

I assume the "Federal Court" you refer to is Judge Carnes's U.S. District Court decision in a libel suit? If so, it was not a jury trial and it was not a trial designed to weigh the evidence about who killed JonBenet. If anyone wants to twist adjudication outcomes such as using this libel case to prove Ramsey innocence perhaps we should mention the Ramseys did not always win their lawsuits where they claimed someone defamed them -- they lost at least one of those suits and I've yet to see an RDI try to use that as a claim the Ramseys killed their daughter.

The entire body of evidence as known to the public points to the parents in my opinion, not to an Intruder. I could very well be wrong and wish that I am. Until the evidence locker becomes public, I see Steve Thomas's theory as presented in his book as the one supported by both privately and publicly known evidence.

I didn't bring up rope. So I don't need to look for sources relating to the rope. I brought up cord fiber, and the only support I have is that it was raised as a statement of material fact in court. The purpose for the trial and its decision are irrelevant.

The statement of material fact is more support than the rope fibers in her bed has, and so the posters who repeatedly claim that the fibers found in JBR's bed are from rope and not cord can go and search for some support for their statements.

I really question your sincerity about wishing the R's innocent. The entire body of evidence doesn't point to the R's as you claim. From almost any rational angle, including the official one, the intruder is the prime suspect.

 

[JMO8778]

From almost any rational angle, including the official one, the intruder is the prime suspect.

On what planet,Holdon??? Or is it in The Twilight Zone?? I'm trying to figure out on what planet scientific evidence can defy the laws of gravity.It simply can't be done.And the 'official' word,if you are talking about Mary Lacy,the woman is beyond reprehension and look at what she accomplished...she brought a live pedo back into the USA at no cost to him (gee,wonder where *that money came from???),and with not even enough evidence to charge him.WTG Lacy!! ..here's your sign!!

the truth lies here: forstevethomas.com

 

[BOESP]

I didn't bring up rope. So I don't need to look for sources relating to the rope. I brought up cord fiber, and the only support I have is that it was raised as a statement of material fact in court. The purpose for the trial and its decision are irrelevant.

The statement of material fact is more support than the rope fibers in her bed has, and so the posters who repeatedly claim that the fibers found in JBR's bed are from rope and not cord can go and search for some support for their statements.

I really question your sincerity about wishing the R's innocent. The entire body of evidence doesn't point to the R's as you claim. From almost any rational angle, including the official one, the intruder is the prime suspect.

Neither did I bring up either one and I'm not concerned whether or not you believe in my sincerity. Obviously, you want the Ramseys to be innocent too because your bias is more than obvious.

 

[Solace]

I didn't bring up rope. So I don't need to look for sources relating to the rope. I brought up cord fiber, and the only support I have is that it was raised as a statement of material fact in court. The purpose for the trial and its decision are irrelevant.

The statement of material fact is more support than the rope fibers in her bed has, and so the posters who repeatedly claim that the fibers found in JBR's bed are from rope and not cord can go and search for some support for their statements.

I really question your sincerity about wishing the R's innocent. The entire body of evidence doesn't point to the R's as you claim. From almost any rational angle, including the official one, the intruder is the prime suspect.

Callan,

Did you ever hear of "Stengalese". Stengalese is a language that was made up by Casey Stengal, the manager of the Yankees in the 60s. No one could understand what the he%# he was saying, except of course Casey. He was very humorous though. Let me give you an example of Stengalese:

"The statement of material fact is more support than the rope fibers in her bed has, and so the posters who repeatedly claim that the fibers found in JBR's bed are from rope and not cord can go and search for some support for their statements."

Callan, you really have to start reading up on this case; otherwise you will be a source to ignore - plain and simple. I can handle the rudeness, truly, I can - and in some respects I even like it - I get to reply with the same force. But if you are going to continually display your ignorance of the facts of the case, I will eventually ignore you. Eagle was a perfect example of plain "insanity" on this case. Did not realize it when I first read her posts, but after a couple of weeks of nonstop pedofiles and sex parties with the Ramseys and JonBenet, one stops replying to the post.

So come on and do some reading and maybe we can continue this. Please prove me wrong and I will listen. Solve the case for us - we will listen. But your theories such as this thread "what the hell is happening here" is quite frankly right up there with "maybe this is what happened" on CrimeLibrary. The theory was absurd and no sane person would even give it a moment's thought - but those on CrimeLibrary gave it quite a bit, which should tell you a lot about them. If it is not Santa Claus, it is a pedofile ring - and they are ludicrous.

Callan, did you ever notice that those who believe in an intruder theory on CrimeLibrary have the following theories, Santa and his wife broke in and Santa stayed in the basement and his wife went up and got JB and got her to come to the dark dank basement in the middle of the night and she willingly went with them - they tortured her until dawn and then left the house around 5:00 a.m. (2) Shills from CL says it was muslims who hated women, (3) Eagle, it was a pedofile ring that Dr. Beuf was involved in and the Ramseys and sex parties were rampant. (4) Louise whatever believes something as outrageous but for the life of me I can't remember it because it was that simple.

Callan, give us some food for thought and we will listen.

 

[Solace]

Also false. Rather, another deliberate generalization to portray character.

When JR carried JBR upstairs from the basement, the parents didn't stop talking to LE.

Lets see, they left the home shortly after JB was found. John had tried to get his family out of town, but was stopped. This was approximately 20 minutes after JB was found. Melinda and her boyfriend and John Andrew arrived sometime around 2:00 p.m. At that point, the Ramseys left the home. Patsy in one car and John with the 'kids' in another. They went to their friends I believe the Fernsies. From then on there was no more talking to the police. Oh yes John did talk to them that night to say my wife is in no condition to talk. And then the rest is history.

If you want to say they talked to the police on the 26th, they did call 911 and then a $h#%load of friends also. The friends ALL were in the house by 6:25 a.m. Yes they were questioned but they had their entourage there. Do you think they could have been buffers? Tell me how the detectives are supposed to interview suspected people (and we all know the parents are immediate suspects, and if you don't, you should) with their friends around? They can't. John did a good job. Patsy did a great job of standing over JB and yelling out "You raised Lazarus, save my child". If that doesn't keep questioning away, nothing will. She is an excellent actress.

So whatever talking they did on the 27th was minimal and PATSY DID NONE. Did they talk to the police on the 28th, yes, to give samples.

It really is good to discuss this case, although frustrating. But in writing just now that Patsy did no talking as John said she was in no condition, I believe John had something to do with the staging. He kept them away from Patsy, definitely.

If I am wrong about the dates, I stand corrected.

 

[BOESP]

Lets see, they left the home shortly after JB was found. John had tried to get his family out of town, but was stopped. This was approximately 20 minutes after JB was found. Melinda and her boyfriend and John Andrew arrived sometime around 2:00 p.m. At that point, the Ramseys left the home. Patsy in one car and John with the 'kids' in another. They went to their friends I believe the Fernsies. From then on there was no more talking to the police. Oh yes John did talk to them that night to say my wife is in no condition to talk. And then the rest is history.

If you want to say they talked to the police on the 26th, they did call 911 and then a $h#%load of friends also. The friends ALL were in the house by 6:25 a.m. Yes they were questioned but they had their entourage there. Do you think they could have been buffers? Tell me how the detectives are supposed to interview suspected people (and we all know the parents are immediate suspects, and if you don't, you should) with their friends around? They can't. John did a good job. Patsy did a great job of standing over JB and yelling out "You raised Lazarus, save my child". If that doesn't keep questioning away, nothing will. She is an excellent actress.

So whatever talking they did on the 27th was minimal and PATSY DID NONE. Did they talk to the police on the 28th, yes, to give samples.

It really is good to discuss this case, although frustrating. But in writing just now that Patsy did no talking as John said she was in no condition, I believe John had something to do with the staging. He kept them away from Patsy, definitely.

If I am wrong about the dates, I stand corrected.

Solace, I'd like to ask a couple of questions. John and Patsy weren't up to talking to the police but didn't John call his attorneys and line them up within the first day or two or at least have his friend Bynum the lawyer line up a defense team, maybe on the 26th-27th? Why would you do that so quickly if your emotional condition wasn't going to allow you to talk to the cops? Do you think John feared they'd be arrested? Since they weren't, why didn't they do what most parents would do, which is beat on the police department door (so to speak) begging to talk to anyone and offering any shred of information that might help?

It's very strange for innocent parents not to want to help with answering a few questions before they leave town. Bynum was there and could have said "John you don't have to answer that."

I can not understand why they waited until April 1997 to talk to investigators if they were innocent. That type behavior is not what innocent parents do. At the very least, John and Patsy knew who killed JonBenet, in my opinion.

 

[JMO8778]

Obviously, you want the Ramseys to be innocent too because your bias is more than obvious.

you can say THAT again !!

Thomas was willing to be fair and listen to what Lacy had to say about evidence on Karr,even though he felt she had the wrong person.(wrong gender,as a matter of fact).And he had every right to believe that,what with that stupid so-called RN that Karr couldn't have possibly used his 'good southern common sense' to write,(esp.since that was an inside joke he couldn't have ever even known about),and then there's the pineapple,the fiber evidence,Patsy saying "Help me,Jesus"! repeatedly on the 911 tape,after she forgot to hang up ...the list goes and on...

 

[JMO8778]

didn't John call his attorneys and line them up within the first day or two or at least have his friend Bynum the lawyer line up a defense team, maybe on the 26th-27th? Why would you do that so quickly if your emotional condition wasn't going to allow you to talk to the cops? Do you think John feared they'd be arrested? Since they weren't, why didn't they do what most parents would do, which is beat on the police department door (so to speak) begging to talk to anyone and offering any shred of information that might help?

It's very strange for innocent parents not to want to help with answering a few questions before they leave town. Bynum was there and could have said "John you don't have to answer that."

(if I'm butting in,just tell me to hush),but in DOI,John says Bynum was at the Fernie's the evening of the 26th,and he relayed a message from Dr Beuf (who was also there),that Patsy and John were in no condition to speak to police,and there would be no interviews with them.

 

[rashomon]

It's very strange for innocent parents not to want to help with answering a few questions before they leave town. Bynum was there and could have said "John you don't have to answer that."

I can not understand why they waited until April 1997 to talk to investigators if they were innocent. That type behavior is not what innocent parents do. At the very least, John and Patsy knew who killed JonBenet, in my opinion.

Especially since they were obviously willing to 'talk to the nation' on CNN a few days after their daughter' s death, where Patsy told the TV audience to "hold their babies close" because "there's a killer out there".
If they were so concerned about the killer running loose, then why didn't they do everything in their power to cooperate with the police to help find him? Why did they instead use their lawyers as a buffer between them and the police? Something just wasn't right there, to put it mildly.

 

[BOESP]

(if I'm butting in,just tell me to hush),but in DOI,John says Bynum was at the Fernie's the evening of the 26th,and he relayed a message from Dr Beuf (who was also there),that Patsy and John were in no condition to speak to police,and there would be no interviews with them.

Shoot no, you're not butting in. My posts are always open to comments from anyone. And thanks for the reply.

It is not believable to me that both Ramseys were incapable of answering some questions. I can only think of one reason and John Ramsey gave it -- it was to keep him out of jail. The Ramseys' "If I Did It Video" was the last straw for me.

 

[BOESP]

Especially since they were obviously willing to 'talk to the nation' on CNN a few days after their daughter' s death, where Patsy told the TV audience to "hold their babies close" because "there's a killer out there".
If they were so concerned about the killer running loose, then why didn't they do everything in their power to cooperate with the police to help find him? Why did they instead use their lawyers as a buffer between them and the police? Something just wasn't right there, to put it mildly.

Rash, there's an American expression that goes "Something is rotten in Denmark." In other words, a story stinks to high heaven. (I'm not sure how we distinguish high heaven from low heaven but, well, you get the picture.)

I suppose before giving the CNN interview Patsy decided it wasn't a small foreign faction (the note writer and the two gentlemen watching over JonBenet). She claimed on CNN that it was the killer and one other person the killer confided in. At least she got that part right, in my opinion.

 

[Squishified]

Shoot no, you're not butting in. My posts are always open to comments from anyone. And thanks for the reply.

It is not believable to me that both Ramseys were incapable of answering some questions. I can only think of one reason and John Ramsey gave it -- it was to keep him out of jail. The Ramseys' "If I Did It Video" was the last straw for me.

What is the "If I Did It" video??

 

[Solace]

Also false. Rather, another deliberate generalization to portray character.

When JR carried JBR upstairs from the basement, the parents didn't stop talking to LE.

No John did not stop talking. You are right. He immediately tried to arrange the flight out of town.

 

[BOESP]

What is the "If I Did It" video??

Here's a portion of an interview John and Patsy gave in, I think, Atlanta. It is worth watching if your computer handles You Tube videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yaK2RstdQQw

If you watch, please do report back to us with your opinion. TIA