the cadaver dog

[fabgod]

So, out of all the cases where Cadaver scent was found, the only cases that can be put up for question are the Jersey Haut de la Garenne case and the McCann case. Dogs alerted to the McCann apartment, clothing Hire car and Toy cat (actually if you watch the video the dog never once alerted to the cat)Brit1981


CANINE SEARCH OF MR McCANN'S VILLA, PRESENT OCCUPANCY.

The villa interior, garden, and all property within were searched by the EVRD.
The only alert indication given was when the dog located a pink cuddly toy in
the villas lounge. The CSI dog did not alert to the toy when screened
separately.

It is my view that it is possible that the EVRD is alerting to cadaver scent
contamination. No evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from this
alert unless it can be confirmed with corroborating evidence
snipped by me from
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Amaral was made an aguido on the 4th may 2007. He was found guilty in a criminal court. the confessions thta jailed the parties were based on torture. the case is now being referred to the UN I hear.Brit1981

What was it again he was found guilty of?
Oh, falsifying evidence, not torture then?

Regarding Kate Prout, forgive me, Didn't Adrian Prout confess and receive life imprisonment?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-15788696

I wonder why the McCanns havent gone down the familiar route of suing Mr Grimes?
all these baseless claims he apparently makes and false alerts, I wonder?

It's all defence and discredit from the McCann camp, not really sending out many positive messages of anything tangible from an abduction scenario, nothing from the various teams of Private Detectives despite all that money spent, not a thing!

 

[brit1981]

So, out of all the cases where Cadaver scent was found, the only cases that can be put up for question are the Jersey Haut de la Garenne case and the McCann case. Dogs alerted to the McCann apartment, clothing Hire car and Toy cat (actually if you watch the video the dog never once alerted to the cat)Brit1981


CANINE SEARCH OF MR McCANN'S VILLA, PRESENT OCCUPANCY.

The villa interior, garden, and all property within were searched by the EVRD.
The only alert indication given was when the dog located a pink cuddly toy in
the villas lounge. The CSI dog did not alert to the toy when screened
separately.

It is my view that it is possible that the EVRD is alerting to cadaver scent
contamination. No evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from this
alert unless it can be confirmed with corroborating evidence
snipped by me from
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Amaral was made an aguido on the 4th may 2007. He was found guilty in a criminal court. the confessions thta jailed the parties were based on torture. the case is now being referred to the UN I hear.Brit1981

What was it again he was found guilty of?
Oh, falsifying evidence, not torture then?

Regarding Kate Prout, forgive me, Didn't Adrian Prout confess and receive life imprisonment?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-15788696

I wonder why the McCanns havent gone down the familiar route of suing Mr Grimes?
all these baseless claims he apparently makes and false alerts, I wonder?

It's all defence and discredit from the McCann camp, not really sending out many positive messages of anything tangible from an abduction scenario, nothing from the various teams of Private Detectives despite all that money spent, not a thing!

Why would anyone sue Grime, when Grime states very clearly that if the EVRD alerts it needs forensic analysis to back it up and cannot be taken as evidence itself, he also states the dog will alert bodily fluids including dried blood from a living human. It is people on the internet who are clinging to the claim that if the dog barks the only possible scenario is that a dead body was there, not Grime or anyone actually involved in the case like the police.
And there is no video showing the dog alerting to the toy. the video shows the dog ignoring the toy. then later the video shows the dog being repeatedly called to a dining area where there is a long horizontal cupboard with several doors against the wall. eventually after it is called to the area several times, the dog stands at the corner of the cuppboard facing away from it and barks. then we see Grime leaving the room witht he dog for a few minutes. Then Grime returned goes to the cupboard, goes striaght to the middle door and takes out the cat. This is the basis of the claim the dog alerted to the toy, and obviously if the case comes to court Grime will have to be questioned on why the dog needed to be called to the area several times, why the dog did not earlier alert to the cat, why Grime knew that the dog was alerting to the middle cupboard, why Grime knew that the dog was alerting to the toy in the cupboard and not the cupboard itself or anything in the cupboard, why the cupbaord was not opened straight away on the dog's alert, and when the toy was placed in the cupboard.

Ans as for Prout he did later confess, and it was found that although eddie had indeed yapped in the house, he had failed to alert when walking over the area where there was a decomposing body, which lets face it was a bit of a blip to say the least. Every single case that Eddie was involved with that made the media there was some sort of an issue regarding his accuracy, and he was not even the most successful dog in SY police with only one independent find of a body in several years.

If people are so certain of the McCanns guilt, so certain that the search for a child should be halted, then why do they not produce one bit of evidence that can be confirmed.

 

[fabgod]

Why would anyone sue Grime, when Grime states very clearly that if the EVRD alerts it needs forensic analysis to back it up and cannot be taken as evidence itself, he also states the dog will alert bodily fluids including dried blood from a living human. It is people on the internet who are clinging to the claim that if the dog barks the only possible scenario is that a dead body was there, not Grime or anyone actually involved in the case like the police.
And there is no video showing the dog alerting to the toy. the video shows the dog ignoring the toy. then later the video shows the dog being repeatedly called to a dining area where there is a long horizontal cupboard with several doors against the wall. eventually after it is called to the area several times, the dog stands at the corner of the cuppboard facing away from it and barks. then we see Grime leaving the room witht he dog for a few minutes. Then Grime returned goes to the cupboard, goes striaght to the middle door and takes out the cat. This is the basis of the claim the dog alerted to the toy, and obviously if the case comes to court Grime will have to be questioned on why the dog needed to be called to the area several times, why the dog did not earlier alert to the cat, why Grime knew that the dog was alerting to the middle cupboard, why Grime knew that the dog was alerting to the toy in the cupboard and not the cupboard itself or anything in the cupboard, why the cupbaord was not opened straight away on the dog's alert, and when the toy was placed in the cupboard.

Ans as for Prout he did later confess, and it was found that although eddie had indeed yapped in the house, he had failed to alert when walking over the area where there was a decomposing body, which lets face it was a bit of a blip to say the least. Every single case that Eddie was involved with that made the media there was some sort of an issue regarding his accuracy, and he was not even the most successful dog in SY police with only one independent find of a body in several years.

If people are so certain of the McCanns guilt, so certain that the search for a child should be halted, then why do they not produce one bit of evidence that can be confirmed.

Why Would the McConns sue Martin Grime(s)?
have a look at the highlighted area above and that says it all

Oh, I was under the impression that the Dogs evidence wasnt admissible in Court in Portugal so why the panic?

lease:

 

[SapphireSteel]

rsbm

If people are so certain of the McCanns guilt, so certain that the search for a child should be halted, then why do they not produce one bit of evidence that can be confirmed.

If people are so certain an intruder did it, then why do they not produce one bit of evidence that can be confirmed?

:waitasec:

 

[Donjeta]

Sigh.
If we here at Websleuths had the evidence of where Madeleine is and what happened to her the case would be solved.

Asking each other why we haven't produced the evidence is like asking homeless people why they don't just go to their apartment.

 

[SapphireSteel]

In this case, there is an apartment.

And a key fob.

And a mothers clothing.

 

[brit1981]

Sigh.
If we here at Websleuths had the evidence of where Madeleine is and what happened to her the case would be solved.

Asking each other why we haven't produced the evidence is like asking homeless people why they don't just go to their apartment.

If people are going to accuse someone of covering up a toddler's death, and then as we have seen use this to try to stop people looking for the child then they should be able to provide at least a scrap of evidence that they are right. Otherwise it is making people's lives a misery and possibly even risking the life of a child because they can do?

So far the evidence put forward by those claiming madeleine is dead an dead at her parents hands is that a dog which alerts to dried blood from a living human alerted in a place where someone had bled for 45 minutes, and one a card fob which was found to contain a bodily fluid from a living person (which the CSI dog also alerted to). thats it!

 

[Donjeta]

If people are going to accuse someone of covering up a toddler's death, and then as we have seen use this to try to stop people looking for the child then they should be able to provide at least a scrap of evidence that they are right. Otherwise it is making people's lives a misery and possibly even risking the life of a child because they can do?

So far the evidence put forward by those claiming madeleine is dead an dead at her parents hands is that a dog which alerts to dried blood from a living human alerted in a place where someone had bled for 45 minutes, and one a card fob which was found to contain a bodily fluid from a living person (which the CSI dog also alerted to). thats it!

Since you're saying that her parents didn't even do anything wrong and did not risk her life worth being charged for when they abandoned her in a hotel, I really don't see how anybody posting about her risks her life.

By all means, let's blame people on the internet for risking Madeleine's life, people who have never seen her and who may have first heard of her after she was dead (God forbid).

 

[SapphireSteel]

If they were so concerned about risking her life, why did Team McCann plow ahead with the marketing of her coloboma against all expert advice?

LE believe that highlighting this unchangeable flaw in Madeleine's appearance could have been her death certificate, assuming of course that is she remained alive but hidden.

LE and kidnapping/abduction experts advised that such a publicity campaign may well cause a panicking kidnapper to murder her instead of keeping her alive.

The coloboma presented an apparently irresistable marketing ploy for Gerry and his PR team. Result? One of the most massive saturation campaigns ever. I myself remember clearly seeing the animation of her coloboma turned into a keyhole, and I live in Australia.

The end result of all of this publicity? No doubt millions of dollars in donations from all over the world, and NO MADELEINE.

Spectacular failure or spectacular success? I guess that depends on your point of view and the goal of the campaign...which was not, apparently, to recover Madeleine alive.

:dunno:

 

[brit1981]

Against expert advice? the police themselves talked about it in their intial descriptions when issuing information about the search to the press less than two days after she disappeared. The american national centre for missing and expoloited children tells people to give out details of distinguishing marks and features.

And yes when people post fabrications, or misrepresent infomration and then push that as a reason for people to think she is dead it lessesn the chance that if she is alive she will be found (and if sadly she is dead that she will be found). People are using this "information" to claim an inquest shoudl be held, that she shoudl be delcared dead. her parents made a mistake, they thought it was safe and it was not. But those trying to stop the search or happily spreading misnformation are doing so knowing full well the risks to madleine, it is not right to say well her parents made a mistake and endangered her so everyone else can do the same.

 

[Donjeta]

What if she happened to be dead and someone murdered her? What about the people who say she is alive and should be searched for in tourist resorts instead of fields and ditches and would like to forbid talking about theories about her possible death? Would you hold them responsible for endangering countless other children because their insistence that she is alive might help a murderer go free and kill somebody else some day? What if insisting that she is alive keeps people from searching their fields and ditches and she is never found?

It is an absurd argument either way imo. One can't blame people for considering all the options imo. If there is an agency that determines that there is only One Approved Hypothesis For Any Unsolved Case I never heard of it.

Many missing people in fact turn up deceased some day and I do not believe that it usually is the fault of the people who sometimes said, oh, what do you think happened to so-and-so, did he die? But for the ones who remain missing, maybe we should blame the people who are not organizing any ground searches because they insist the MP is alive in Brazil?

JMO but any talk about her might be good for her chances of being found, if she is alive, as it keeps her face fresh in the memory, and some day she might start to wonder herself.

 

[brit1981]

But no-one who says people should look for her have said people should not look for a murderer. In fact the only people I have heard say that are those who are campaigning to get the police review closed and have a public enquiry instead which is nto something done in misisng peoples cases and would mena the abductor would get a heads up as to what evidence there is against her. It is one thing to think she is dead, but it is another to demand that the review is stopped and an inquest held instead. that benefits no-one, especially not madeleine and other children who could be at risk.

 

[Donjeta]

I haven't seen anybody say they don't want the case to be solved and if there is a murderer that person shouldn't be found.

Where on earth are you reading?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Oh yes about this review...

Tax payer funded, no doubt.

Where are the results? It has been ongoing for nearly two years now.

 

[badhorsie]

If people are going to accuse someone of covering up a toddler's death, and then as we have seen use this to try to stop people looking for the child then they should be able to provide at least a scrap of evidence that they are right. Otherwise it is making people's lives a misery and possibly even risking the life of a child because they can do?

So far the evidence put forward by those claiming madeleine is dead an dead at her parents hands is that a dog which alerts to dried blood from a living human alerted in a place where someone had bled for 45 minutes, and one a card fob which was found to contain a bodily fluid from a living person (which the CSI dog also alerted to). thats it!

If Madeleine is with abductors, how is what is written on a crime board going to affect her destiny??? Please tell. Do abductors read WS or various mong boards??? (to me "mong boards" mean inconsequential anonymous discussion boards)

 

[Donjeta]

If Madeleine is with abductors, how is what is written on a crime board going to affect her destiny??? Please tell. Do abductors read WS or various mong boards???

I don't recall one single case in which a predator let a child go because he came on WS and read that there are posters here who think that the child is alive.

 

[SapphireSteel]

If the abductor still had Madeleine alive, Gerry stamped her death certificate by publicising her coloboma.

She would have had to die the night it was first broadcast.

 

[Donjeta]

Oh yes about this review...

Tax payer funded, no doubt.

Where are the results? It has been ongoing for nearly two years now.

I think they must be about done with the psychic leads now...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-review-examine-previously-ignored-calls.html

PUBLISHED: 09:22 GMT, 2 May 2012 | UPDATED: 06:18 GMT, 4 May 2012

The £2million police review of the Madeleine McCann case will examine calls from psychics which were previously ignored.

Detectives are studying around 100 logs of calls that were discounted because the callers said they were psychics or had dreamt about the high-profile investigation.

Critics said the decision to include information from ‘supernatural’ sources was a waste of resources.

I don't know about anyone else but I read the psychic thing as if they'd scraped the bottom of the barrel and got nothing so the psychics were left.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think they must be about done with the psychic leads now...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-review-examine-previously-ignored-calls.html

PUBLISHED: 09:22 GMT, 2 May 2012 | UPDATED: 06:18 GMT, 4 May 2012



I don't know about anyone else but I read the psychic thing as if they'd scraped the bottom of the barrel and got nothing so the psychics were left.

Oh for God's sake.

Mind you this is a review being led by Andy Rocketscientist, who recently announced that - HEADLINES - they now believe Madeleine is either alive, or dead.

Amazing detective powers, right there.

:banghead:

 

[fabgod]

The McCanns lawyers Carter Ruck, have made a statement on the Stephen Birch claims that a body is buried under Murats property in PdL.
Its odd that suddenly the Portuguese Police are trusted for their expertise, was it not Eddie and Keela that searched Robert Murats property in 2007, It seems odd that there is a sudden "trust" in the PJ?

Carter-Ruck, the law firm representing Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann, said they stand behind the decision of the authorities not to dig.

"Mr. and Mrs. McCann are guided by the expertise of the British and Portuguese police, both of which have studied the information provided by Mr. Birch and both of which have concluded it is not credible," Isabel Martorell, a partner at the firm, told HuffPost.

snipped from here
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/20/madeleine-mccann-update_n_1898023.html

the volume of the readers comments is interesting as is the overwhelming negativity to the parents, having said that, why would Parents of a missing child suddenly NOT want every stone unturned?
I still wonder which side Mr Birch is on