The IRA/UDA connection

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  • #21
For the question about whether Catholics can be Masons...the only requirement is a belief in a higher being. Not sure if the Catholic church approves but I don't believe the Masonic Lodge would turn anyone away for being Catholic.

My ex husband was the Worshipful Master of his local lodge so I know a little about it.
 
  • #22
Hi Texana,

This is my understanding of the nature of the Masonic Brotherhood.

That's not my understanding of the Masonic Brotherhood. Morality is a big part of it.
 
  • #23
That's not my understanding of the Masonic Brotherhood. Morality is a big part of it.

Maybe whatever branch your husband was involved with but let me tell you the Mason's are not well renowned for their morality more like their corruption & no the Catholic Church does not approve of secret organisations such as the Masons!
 
  • #24
My Grandfather was a mason, and the only thing that stood out different about him was that he was a pervert. He cheated on my Grandmother constantly, he had a penile implant in is 70's after grandma died. (This was before Viagra) When he died, we cleaned out boxes of 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 movies from his house. Grandpa was very wealthy, and the Masons, IMO helped him hide his dirty little secrets from Grandma for years...as long as his dues kept coming in. My Grandfather creeped me out.
 
  • #25
IW - I'm sorry about your grandfather. Uggggg!

This mason thing probably needs some exploring. The things I am reading are really inconsistent with what I had always thought about the Masons, which truthfully, wasn't much. But I certainly never thought they were "gansters" for lack of a better word.

Salem
 
  • #26
I'm going to bet heavy and hard that certain Masons would do anything to support a fellow Mason.

Other Masons would not, and would feel completely comfortable saying no, on the grounds that doing certain things would violate their core beliefs as a Mason.

The issue of lodge/club membership ruling religious beliefs is always difficult. I had sorority sisters who were absolutely devout Christians, and those who were atheist, and then those like myself who struggled with reconciling both.

So saying Gerry's Mason brothers would do anything for him, presupposes knowing what Gerry's Mason brothers would do.

Bottom line, the people who would help Gerry cover anything up, wouldn't need to excuse it on grounds of being Masons or Odd Fellows or Kappa Alphas (just kidding on that last one.)

So this is a blind alley, and kind of like watching the UFO shows on the History Channel. Useless, diverting for a few minutes, and then, in the end, a waste of time.
 
  • #27
"I'm going to bet heavy and hard that certain Masons would do anything to support a fellow Mason.

Other Masons would not, and would feel completely comfortable saying no, on the grounds that doing certain things would violate their core beliefs as a Mason."

Hi Tex, I think you are right.
There are Freemasons who have joined up who might well be seeking a higher morale code and or way of life. Sure enought like all cults Freemasonry in this regard is no different.
There are Freemasons who are comfortable with the "Excellency of Secrecy" and all that it offers. There are others who participate in The Craft in a more restained and controlled fashion and who perhaps seek some higher or more noble existence, this is undeniable.

The infastructuree to act in a secret and covert fashion is already in place indeed it forms an integral and essesntial part of it's very function, without it I do not believe the organisation could survive, ultimately it should prove to be it's own downfall though that might be a way off yet.
My suspicion is that Freemasons collectively had a problem with lending their support to Gerry Mccann. He was implicated in the murder of his daughter with his wife as co conspirator, the theory being as I am sure you are all aware, that they had killed Madeleine, concealed the body in a some sort of refrigerated container and then buried the body in an unknown place.

Killing Madeleine did not require the services of the Freemasonry, after that however the plot thickens.
The T7 had to be kept onside and their loyalty and alliegence maintained. Here are 3 reasons as to why the T7 might well have cooperated in this way:

First consider the men
1.Their professioanl reputations as Medics and their careers were on the line.
2.Gerry Mccann was the "joker of the pack" he was the "loudest and the most gregarious" (according to BOD). This probably meant that he was(in the absence of there being any other character that could challenge him) the leader of the group. It was Gerrys' gang and I suspect that ultimately the T7 did what they were told and Gerry Mccann told them what they had to do. He was the leader he gave the orders and he expected complete loyalty.
David Payne was his closest friend and held the No2 position, which leaves Russell O'Brien who was a footsoldier and Matthew Oldfield his fellow cohort.
3.Finally if Gerry Mccann, David Payne, Matthew Oldfield, and Russell O'Brien did all share the common bond of Brotherhood that Freemasonry offers then this device would certainly have been a contributing factor in ensuring that complete loyalty and secrecy was adhered to. The oath of a Master Mason ensures that this is the case.

What about the WAGs though? Wouldn't they break ranks and spilll the beans?
Reasonable question. The men are all complicit through their mutal loyaltys but the women not so, perhaps we ought to consider the reasoning behind the WAG's perpetuation of the "Abductor story" and the support they have leant to their menfolk in terms of statements and descriptions.

The womens reasons:
1. Still applies - Professional lives equally important for the women as much as for the men.
2. Still applies - Gerry was not only a leader of men but of women.
3.The cult of Freemasonry would have you believe that women are not allowed to be members, so no mutual bond of silence support and loyalty here you might think. Actually women are alloed to become members but only members of women only lodges. They share a common set of rules with the men, they dress like the men and they adopt the same value structure as the men, all be in in a subservient role to the men. The all women lodges operate at the whim of the all male lodges, the womens lodges are affiliated to their male counterparts and it is the men who determine the very existence or not of the all women lodges. A womens lodge cannot be deemed as "regular" ie acknowledged within the all male body of Freemasonry, unless it has been approved as such by the male lodge that originated it. This relationship is definitive in that ultimate control for the activites, formation and dissolution of the womens lodges and all other aspects of the running of the womens lodges is controlled by the men in their traditional roles as Freemasons.
 
  • #28
Or then again, they could all be just a sleazy band of drunken paedophiles and lesbian swingers and Gerry has the biggest....................bank account.
 
  • #29
It has been calculated that Gerry Mccann had approx £2.5K in the bank by way of reserves, at the end of May 2007.
Not enough to persuade anyone to do very much I wouldn't have thought...but then perhaps the riches that were on offer, might well have provided the neccessary motivation.
 
  • #30
Just focussing on the potential power of Feemasons for the moment, especially in the world of police and justice, please read this report - then look at what I say at the end:

========================================================

Ex-detective among six arrested over unsolved axe murder of private eye

· Yard man investigated pub killing 21 years ago
· Victim's business partner also believed to be held

morgan10a.jpg


Daniel Morgan, 37, whose body was found in the car park of the Golden Lion pub in Sydenham, south London, on 10 March, 1987. Photograph: PA


A former Scotland Yard detective has been arrested on suspicion of the murder of a man whose killing he investigated 21 years ago. The arrest was one of six made yesterday in connection with one of Britain's most controversial and high profile unsolved murders.

The arrests were linked to the death of private eye Daniel Morgan, who was found with an axe in his head in a south London pub car park in 1987. Five of the men were arrested for murder, while a sixth man, a serving Met police officer, was arrested on suspicion of misconduct in a public office.
The latest arrests, which result from the fifth investigation into the killing, are partly the result of witnesses, some from the criminal underworld, coming forward with statements after many years.

It is understood that recent advances in DNA and changes in the law regarding the giving of evidence against fellow criminals have also played a part in the inquiry.

Sid Fillery, 61, a former detective sergeant attached to Catford police station in south London, now believed to be involved in running a pub on the Norfolk Broads, was arrested yesterday in connection with the murder.
Jonathan Rees, 53, Morgan's former partner, a freelance investigator, was also believed to be held. The others arrested are understood to be: Jimmy Cook, 53, Glenn Vian, 49, and Garry Vian, 47, all of south London. The serving Met officer arrested over misconduct allegations is a 24-year-year constable.

The men were arrested when they answered bail at Charing Cross police station or attended by appointment. The police constable, who was not named, was arrested at his place of work. He has been suspended pending the investigation.

The murdered man's brother, Alastair Morgan, who has fought for two decades to have the case brought to justice, welcomed the news. "This has been an extremely long and arduous battle for my family but we hope that this will perhaps be the beginning of the end," he said.

The latest investigation, headed by Assistant Commissioner John Yates, had a team of 36 re-examining tens of thousands of pages of statements from the original inquiries. The murder inquiry was relaunched three years ago and located in a different building from Scotland Yard to avoid any suggestion of impropriety because of allegations of police corruption from the start of the case, which has dogged the Met for years. Police are still seeking other witnesses and a £50,000 reward remains on offer.

"It has been over 21 years since Daniel's murder," said Yates said yesterday. "Since that tragic event there have been numerous investigations into his death, none of which have been able to establish who was responsible. The one consistent theme throughout has been the astonishing determination of the Morgan family to ensure that those responsible are brought to justice.

"The current investigation has shown that there are still people out there who have highly pertinent evidence about this case. The arrests today demonstrate the Met's continued determination to bring those responsible to justice.

"I also hope that these arrests are a reassurance to those in the community who also have information or evidence about what happened to Daniel. We have long said that within south London the identity of those responsible for the murder is one of the worst kept local secrets. I urge anyone with any information, however small, to get in touch with us."

Morgan, 37, the son of an army officer, who had been born in Singapore and grown up in Gwent, studied agriculture and then worked as a salesman in Denmark and as a travel courier before joining a detective agency. He set up his own company, Southern Investigations, in 1984, with a partner, Jonathan Rees. He was married with two children, now both grown up.
Rees had close contacts with the local police and his colleagues believed he wanted to be a policeman himself.

Morgan was unhappy about the closeness of some of those relations and at the direction the work was taking. At the time of his death, it is believed Morgan was about to expose a south London drug network, possibly involving corrupt police officers.

Tension between Morgan and Rees heightened over Southern Investigations' contract with the local Belmont car auction in Charlton whose takings the firm had responsibility for depositing.

In early 1987, Rees claimed to have been robbed of £18,000 of the takings but Morgan had doubts about whether such a robbery had taken place. On March 10, Morgan agreed to meet Rees at the Golden Lion in Sydenham, not their normal local but one which happened to be inside the Catford police area where friends of Rees worked.

After the meeting, Morgan went to the pub's car park where he was struck on the back of the head with an axe and killed. The axe, which had been bound with sticking plaster to avoid leaving fingerprints, was left embedded in his head. His £800 Rolex watch was missing but £1,100 was in his pocket from which DNA traces have been found.

At the inquest, Rees suggested Morgan had made passes at the wives of clients and that there might be a motive for murder there. There were also tales that he had been watching Colombian cocaine dealers on behalf of a public figure whose daughter had become addicted.

On the original investigating team was Detective Sergeant Sid Fillery, a friend of Rees, who moonlighted for Southern Investigations and, after leaving the police, joined it. The first investigation petered out and by the time Morgan's body was released for burial in August 1988, there were no arrests.

Had it not been for Morgan's brother and mother, the case might have been logged as one of Scotland Yard's unsolved murders. But Alastair Morgan has been dogged in his pursuit of the case, lobbying politicians and police officers even when it seemed the case was closed.

Following his first intervention, the Police Complaints Authority (now the IPCC) asked Hampshire police to reinvestigate. Three people were arrested in 1989, but charges were dropped.

Two police officers who were arrested in connection with the inquiry have since been completely vindicated and there is no suggestion that they were involved in any way.

UNQUOTE

COMMENT by T.B.:

Now, that report was in 'The Guardian'.

The report in the 'Daily Telegraph', however, included this short - but hugely significant - paragraph:

"At the request of Mr Morgan's family, officers involved in the latest investigation were required to declare that they were not Freemasons".

So, five investigations over nearly 20 years get nowhere.

The sixth investigation completely excludes police officers who are Freemasons. Hey presto! - after 21 yeares, six arrests are made.

By the way, the 'Telegraph' article is no longer available on the Net.

Make of that what you will. But I have retained a paper print-out of the article

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  • #31
That was a fascinating post.
A real demonstration of the power that the Masonic Brotherhood exerts within the establishment of this country. The structure is there undeniably for the pecunios advantage and advancement of it's members, and secrecy is it's main armourment.
We in this country (the UK) are frightened by the Free Masons (witness the amount of interest these threads generate).
The power they wield is formidable but it is all evil and it cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.
 
  • #32
i've known some masons (i know one right now, in fact). my maternal grandfather was a mason.

..um...one of the ripper theories is masonic. personally, i think it's all a load of rubbish, but that's my opinion.
 
  • #33
  • #34
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