The Noise Level in the Ramsey Home...

[narlacat]

When my 3 kids were very small, got robbed at night.
My hubby,3 kids and I slepted threw it all..
They came in our bedroom and took my hubby's wallet and my jewelry
and other things around the 2 floor townhouse...
That was very scary to wake up to.
The police never found out who did it.
The next day I got a BIG dog...

Did the Ramseys have a dog?

Yep.
But it wasn't home.
It was across the road at the Barnhill's place.
They often looked after it.

 

[Pharlap]

Yep.
But it wasn't home.
It was across the road at the Barnhill's place.
They often looked after it.

Now that's strange..
Why didn't they keep the dog at there house if they were home?...
You know like most people, for protection....

 

[narlacat]

It's not so strange Pharlap.

Patsy couldn't be bothered looking after the dog, so she let her eldery neighbours do it.
They often took care of it and JonBenet would go over to play with it there.
They were the ones who ended up with it after JonBenet's death.

It wasn't a guard dog, it was a white fluffy thing with a lovely little french name...Jacques, a Bischon.
The dog wasn't home, just like the alarm wasn't on.

 

[rashomon]

I have always been bothered by the fact that no one heard anything. I am a very very light sleeper. My cat goes meow in the kitchen and I wake up. However, I guess if you are a heavy sleeper its possible to not have heard anything. I just find it odd. When I was a child my mother always heard me at night. If I coughed, or got out of bed to get a book my mother would appear at my door. She use to say its called mommy hearing.
I don't have children of my own so have not experienced that as an adult. Do any other parents here no what she means by mommy hearing?
mjak

That "mommy hearing" is a selective hearing; for example, a mother may sleep through a thunderstorm but will wake up at the tiniest sound her baby makes. It is probably something which is 'programmed' by nature into mothers.
And like JonBenet's grandmother Nedra said, JonBenet would have screamed like hell had anyone tried to abduct her. She was not a shy child who would have kept quiet in fright.
Stun gun experts said JB would have screamed had a stun gun been used on her, and this has just been confirmed by posters here who have experience with stun guns.

The Ramseys did drink wine at the Whites' party, but I don't believe that was the reason why they did not hear anything at night because they slept like rocks afterward. But I do think the alcohol Patsy had at the party also contributed to her losing her temper with JB. Alcohol plays a huge role in many domestic violence cases, often driving people to do things which they never would have done when sober.

Not only did the Ramseys hear nothing at night, the intruder even had the nerve to feed JB pineapple and wait for an hour afterward, obviously without any fear of being detected.

 

[aussiesheila]

Well, you know it now!

This is something I have a little experience with. I own one of these things. They're loud, all right. At least mine is. See, you press the trigger and a visible bluish-white arc of electricity appears. That arc makes a crackling sound. When the electic contacts are applied to skin, it's like being shocked with a live wire. Not as severe, because the amperage is low, but if you think a person being zapped won't scream...think again!

SuperDave, WRT stunguns - the name implies that they stun people, which I would have thought would have rendered them incapable of screaming. Since I know nothing about them I don't mean that I know this for sure. I am sure JonBenet screamed, whether it was when she was stungunned or whether it was when she was assaulted with the paintbrush handle, I'm not sure. But there was only one scream and there were 3 different sets of stungun burns, or what some people believe were stungun burns.

So is it possible that each time JonBenet was zapped she was stunned and not able to scream because the size of the zap was too great, or do you think that every time a person is zapped with whatever type of stungun, they will invariably scream?

 

[BBB167893]

SuperDave, WRT stunguns - the name implies that they stun people, which I would have thought would have rendered them incapable of screaming. Since I know nothing about them I don't mean that I know this for sure. I am sure JonBenet screamed, whether it was when she was stungunned or whether it was when she was assaulted with the paintbrush handle, I'm not sure. But there was only one scream and there were 3 different sets of stungun burns, or what some people believe were stungun burns.

So is it possible that each time JonBenet was zapped she was stunned and not able to scream because the size of the zap was too great, or do you think that every time a person is zapped with whatever type of stungun, they will invariably scream?

aussiesheila, let me begin at the beginning. They're called stun guns because they're non-lethal, as opposed to real guns. But the effect is like a live electrical wire. I'm not sure there was a scream, and the majority of professional opinion is that they were not burns of any kind. Werner Spitz said he even found boat-shaped marks inside one of them. Secondly, if she really were zapped with it as many times as you seem to believe, it doesn't wash anyway, because a person being zapped is NOT going to hold still enough for there only to be the two marks. The burns will be erratic, like a rash, you see?

 

[Brefie]

Secondly, if she really were zapped with it as many times as you seem to believe, it doesn't wash anyway, because a person being zapped is NOT going to hold still enough for there only to be the two marks. The burns will be erratic, like a rash, you see?

OOOOH!! Great point, SD!

I have never considered the stun gun theory with any seriousness (Which could be why I am not an actual detective, preferring to do that type of work while staring at my screen, eating hummus!!!).

You make a good point, though! I love your posts already WELCOME

 

[BBB167893]

OOOOH!! Great point, SD!

I have never considered the stun gun theory with any seriousness (Which could be why I am not an actual detective, preferring to do that type of work while staring at my screen, eating hummus!!!).

You make a good point, though! I love your posts already WELCOME

I did for a while, until I actually got one of them!

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[Solace]

aussiesheila, let me begin at the beginning. They're called stun guns because they're non-lethal, as opposed to real guns. But the effect is like a live electrical wire. I'm not sure there was a scream, and the majority of professional opinion is that they were not burns of any kind. Werner Spitz said he even found boat-shaped marks inside one of them. Secondly, if she really were zapped with it as many times as you seem to believe, it doesn't wash anyway, because a person being zapped is NOT going to hold still enough for there only to be the two marks. The burns will be erratic, like a rash, you see?

Okay, I am in agreement with everything you post so far. Also, I read about the "boat" marks. What do you think the marks are? Do you have an opinion on that?

 

[BeeBee]

Well, you know it now!

This is something I have a little experience with. I own one of these things. They're loud, all right. At least mine is. See, you press the trigger and a visible bluish-white arc of electricity appears. That arc makes a crackling sound. When the electic contacts are applied to skin, it's like being shocked with a live wire. Not as severe, because the amperage is low, but if you think a person being zapped won't scream...think again!

I own a stun gun too. Mine is not that loud. A popping, crackling sound that really isn't loud at all. And, considering that JonBenet and Burke were on the second floor of the home and John and Patsy on the third, that noise would never be heard. Especially when their sleeping.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I own a stun gun too. Mine is not that loud. A popping, crackling sound that really isn't loud at all. And, considering that JonBenet and Burke were on the second floor of the home and John and Patsy on the third, that noise would never be heard. Especially when their sleeping.

But would someone scream involuntarily when it's applied to them?

 

[BBB167893]

Maybe so, Beebee, but it would still be an entirely impractical weapon for something like this.

"But would someone scream involuntarily when it's applied to them?"

That's likely. They used one on Johnny Knoxville once and and he did.

"Also, I read about the "boat" marks. What do you think the marks are? Do you have an opinion on that?"

Well, in my own lay opinion, I think that they were marks from rings. But Werner Spitz, the pathologist in question, said that they most likely came from a snap on a piece of clothing.

 

[Solace]

Maybe so, Beebee, but it would still be an entirely impractical weapon for something like this.

"But would someone scream involuntarily when it's applied to them?"

That's likely. They used one on Johnny Knoxville once and and he did.

"Also, I read about the "boat" marks. What do you think the marks are? Do you have an opinion on that?"

Well, in my own lay opinion, I think that they were marks from rings. But Werner Spitz, the pathologist in question, said that they most likely came from a snap on a piece of clothing.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[BBB167893]

Thanks for your reply.

My pleasure.

 

[BeeBee]

Maybe so, Beebee, but it would still be an entirely impractical weapon for something like this.

"But would someone scream involuntarily when it's applied to them?"

That's likely. They used one on Johnny Knoxville once and and he did.

"Also, I read about the "boat" marks. What do you think the marks are? Do you have an opinion on that?"

Well, in my own lay opinion, I think that they were marks from rings. But Werner Spitz, the pathologist in question, said that they most likely came from a snap on a piece of clothing.

Even if JonBenet had screamed if stunned, IMO that house was so big, she wouldn't have been heard. In her room and especially in the basement.

Those marks on JB were the nastiest looking marks I've ever seen. To me they didn't look like stun gun marks. Or snaps from a piece of clothing.( How ridiculous coming from Werner Spitz.) And, believe me, they didn't classify as "abrasions." My kids had abrasions and they never looked anything like what I saw on JonBenet. I have no idea what they could be and I've tried to figure it out for 10 years. If I had to guess at what they looked more like to me, it would be cigarette burns.

 

[capps]

"If I had to guess at what they looked more like to me, it would be cigarette burns."

Thank you BeeBee... that's what I said not too long ago in a previous post. It's just a guess,but it sure does resemble cigarette burns.

 

[narlacat]

I've always thought they looked like cigarette burns too.

 

[michelle]

Is there anywhere I could see a pic of those? I know its gory but I have never seen those marks....

 

[Delores]

That "mommy hearing" is a selective hearing; for example, a mother may sleep through a thunderstorm but will wake up at the tiniest sound her baby makes. It is probably something which is 'programmed' by nature into mothers.
And like JonBenet's grandmother Nedra said, JonBenet would have screamed like hell had anyone tried to abduct her. She was not a shy child who would have kept quiet in fright.
Stun gun experts said JB would have screamed had a stun gun been used on her, and this has just been confirmed by posters here who have experience with stun guns.

The Ramseys did drink wine at the Whites' party, but I don't believe that was the reason why they did not hear anything at night because they slept like rocks afterward. But I do think the alcohol Patsy had at the party also contributed to her losing her temper with JB. Alcohol plays a huge role in many domestic violence cases, often driving people to do things which they never would have done when sober.

Not only did the Ramseys hear nothing at night, the intruder even had the nerve to feed JB pineapple and wait for an hour afterward, obviously without any fear of being detected.

Alcohol will fuel domestic violence! I alsways wondered how they heard NOTHING if they were in the same house, after all the child did not sleep in the basement, she was upstairs, taken from bed , fed, molested and bashed to death.

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila, let me begin at the beginning. They're called stun guns because they're non-lethal, as opposed to real guns. But the effect is like a live electrical wire. I'm not sure there was a scream, and the majority of professional opinion is that they were not burns of any kind. Werner Spitz said he even found boat-shaped marks inside one of them. Secondly, if she really were zapped with it as many times as you seem to believe, it doesn't wash anyway, because a person being zapped is NOT going to hold still enough for there only to be the two marks. The burns will be erratic, like a rash, you see?

OK, so you are saying that you don't think she was stungunned. I don't have a problem with that. It doesn't ruin my theory if she wasn't, I would just have to modify it slightly. I am still interested in whether she was or not though. BlueCrab, who sadly does not post anymore, had done a lot of research into stunguns and was certain that one was used. I was convinced by his logic.

The coroner described a number of abrasions on the body, some single and some in pairs:

1. One on her chin
"Located on the right side of the chin is a three-sixteenths by one-eight of an inch area of superficial abrasion."

2. One on her shoulder
"On the posterior aspect of the right shoulder is a poorly demarcated, very superficial focus of abrasion/contusion which is pale purple in color and measures up to three-quarters by one-half inch in maximum dimension."

3. One pair on her back
"On the left lateral aspect of the lower back, approximately sixteen and one-quarter inches and seventeen and one-half inches below the level of the top of the head are two dried rust colored to slightly purple abrasions. The more superior of the two measures one-eight by one-sixteenth of an inch and the more inferior measures three-sixteenths by one-eight of an inch. There is no surrounding contusion identified."

4. One pair on her leg
"On the posterior aspect of the left lower leg, almost in the midline, approximately 4 inches above the level of the heel are two small scratch-like abrasions which are dried and rust colored. They measure one-sixteenth by less than one- sixteenth of an inch and one-eight by less than one-sixteenth of an inch respectively."

Can you be really certain that these could not hve been caused by a stungun? If so what would you suggest?

If, as I believe, JonBenet was restrained in a standing position by her arms being held outstretched over her head, she would not have been able to move much anyway, and if the person holding the gun was standing behind her she would not have been able to see the gun, anticipate it's zap and move away. It is interesting that the clearest marks are the pair on her lower back, those on other parts of her body that she would have been able to move more easily are less clearly defined.