The Pineapple

[tumble]

one of the men who came into my home and committed a violent home invasion sat in my kitchen and ate a bowl of fruity pebbles cereal from my house while myself and three children were gagged and bound on the floor and while the other offender had my husband out of the house at gunpoint to get money from an atm. you never know what these sicko's will do. I will forever believe that criminals are sick enough to do just about anything

I am very sorry about your experience.
In this case though the perp does not control the situation, not with the parents unattended upstairs.
I am aware that intruders exist, just don't think he would act in this way.

 

[kcksum]

Considering those prints a solid link between Patsy Ramsey and the pineapple is absurd. It's a prime example of Steve Thomas' complete lack of objectivity in investigating this case. I would expect that my fingerprints are on every dish, bowl, glass, pot, pan, etc, etc, etc in my kitchen cabinets.

very very well said:clap:

 

[Lurker Steve]

In other words, does JBR being awake or asleep when they get home have any real impact on whether the Ramsey's could have killed her? No.

But LYING about it does.

As I said, Burke said JB was awake when they got home from the Whites. Ergo they were lying. Why? Hope we will know someday.

No, ergo either one is lying (Burke or the parents) or one is mistaken.

I can even see them both being right - if I see a child who is barely awake and muttering a bit, I'd call them 'asleep' but someone else may think they are awake.

 

[trixie]

Let me try to rephrase:
If you are a murderer and being interrogated by police, you have a choice (when the police ask you a specific question) over whether to tell the truth, or lie.
If the police catch you in a lie, they're going to suspect you.
If you tell the truth, the police are going to tend to believe you.

So you want to tell the truth when you can. That means anything either innocuous (not tied to the murder) or unverifiable by others. It also means you have to keep track of fewer lies (since the police will ask multiple questions about the same thing, to try to catch inconsistencies.)


In that case, why lie about JBR being asleep when they got home, as opposed to saying that she was awake, had some pineapple, then went to sleep?

What does lying about that buy PR or JR?
In other words, does JBR being awake or asleep when they get home have any real impact on whether the Ramsey's could have killed her? No.

But LYING about it does.

Also, if PR did buy pineapple around this time, wouldn't someone who saw her buying it at the local grocery store have come forward by now? She had to get it somewhere.

IMO, lying about it creates "LACK OF OPPORTUNITY" for an accident or anything else to have happened. If JBR is asleep the whole time, she is, in effect, out of the picture from the trip home in the car until she is placed in her bed for the night, of course at which time she stayed soundly asleep according to J and P and the fact is greatly emphasised in their interviews. Being asleep like that provides zero oportunity for interaction with anybody. I also happen to think it's an easy story to remember. I guess its common in the Ramsey family for 6 year olds to fall into comas in the car while on the way home Christmas night.

 

[Lurker Steve]

IMO, lying about it creates "LACK OF OPPORTUNITY" for an accident or anything else to have happened. If JBR is asleep the whole time, she is, in effect, out of the picture from the trip home in the car until she is placed in her bed for the night, of course at which time she stayed soundly asleep according to J and P and the fact is greatly emphasised in their interviews. Being asleep like that provides zero oportunity for interaction with anybody. I also happen to think it's an easy story to remember. I guess its common in the Ramsey family for 6 year olds to fall into comas in the car while on the way home Christmas night.

Except all you need is someone who happened to be looking out their window, saw JBR walking or hopping or something from the car, and pointing it out.

And, I'm sorry, but "fall into comas in the car" - how about how common it is for six year olds to fall asleep in a car, at night? That's pretty common.

Are you in search of the truth or are you in search of the Ramsey's being convicted?

 

[trixie]

Except all you need is someone who happened to be looking out their window, saw JBR walking or hopping or something from the car, and pointing it out.

And, I'm sorry, but "fall into comas in the car" - how about how common it is for six year olds to fall asleep in a car, at night? That's pretty common.

Are you in search of the truth or are you in search of the Ramsey's being convicted?

I've studied this case since 1997. I know what my opinion is. I don't feel the need to share it or or try to convince anyone else to agree with me. I was merely answering your question.
BTW, the Ramseys park in a garage and then get out of the car. No neighbors would see them. I've done my homework.

 

[Lurker Steve]

I've studied this case since 1997. I know what my opinion is. I don't feel the need to share it or or try to convince anyone else to agree with me. I was merely answering your question.
BTW, the Ramseys park in a garage and then get out of the car. No neighbors would see them. I've done my homework.

Actually, you were being pretty rude. The "falling into a coma" remark was insensitive as hell, especially considering what happened to her.

And no offense, but your logic for why they'd lie stinks. It doesn't buy them much of anything - and wouldn't they want to make sure Burke was on the same page?

Put this another way: Could PR have murdered JBR if she arrived home asleep? Yes. Could PR have murdered JBR if she arrived home awake? Yes. So what difference does it make?

 

[trixie]

Actually, you were being pretty rude. The "falling into a coma" remark was insensitive as hell, especially considering what happened to her.

And no offense, but your logic for why they'd lie stinks. It doesn't buy them much of anything - and wouldn't they want to make sure Burke was on the same page?

Put this another way: Could PR have murdered JBR if she arrived home asleep? Yes. Could PR have murdered JBR if she arrived home awake? Yes. So what difference does it make?

I didn't mean to be rude. And actually I don't think I was. Have you read the Ramseys interviews? Any of them? All of them?

 

[Lurker Steve]

I didn't mean to be rude. And actually I don't think I was. Have you read the Ramseys interviews? Any of them? All of them?

Yes, I have. I was alive in 1997, it was pretty hard to avoid it!

I still don't get why it was in their interest to lie about the pineapple or JBR being awake. In fact, if they are guilty, it was in their interest to admit both (since it would make it easy to keep their story straight by minimizing the number of lies told.)

 

[trixie]

Yes, I have. I was alive in 1997, it was pretty hard to avoid it!

I still don't get why it was in their interest to lie about the pineapple or JBR being awake. In fact, if they are guilty, it was in their interest to admit both (since it would make it easy to keep their story straight by minimizing the number of lies told.)

I'm so happy to hear you were alive in 1997. You know actually what you are saying is true about minimizing lies to keep their story straight. But what if they forgot about Jonbenet eating the pineapple when they decided to claim she slept through everything? It's a csae of one lie leading to another lie until Patsy even has to claim she doesn't know where the pineapple came from! I think it was a slippery slope and it was originally intended to make the story easier to remember. Does that make sense? (I'm fighting a migraine today.)

 

[kazzbar]

one of the men who came into my home and committed a violent home invasion sat in my kitchen and ate a bowl of fruity pebbles cereal from my house while myself and three children were gagged and bound on the floor and while the other offender had my husband out of the house at gunpoint to get money from an atm. you never know what these sicko's will do. I will forever believe that criminals are sick enough to do just about anything

I am sorry to hear of your ordeal what a nightmare. I agree with you anything can go on when things are out of control. The only thing that gets me is how long did the perp spend in the Ramsays house? Why was he not worried about being caught " in the act'?

 

[Lurker Steve]

I'm so happy to hear you were alive in 1997. You know actually what you are saying is true about minimizing lies to keep their story straight. But what if they forgot about Jonbenet eating the pineapple when they decided to claim she slept through everything? It's a csae of one lie leading to another lie until Patsy even has to claim she doesn't know where the pineapple came from! I think it was a slippery slope and it was originally intended to make the story easier to remember. Does that make sense? (I'm fighting a migraine today.)

Sorry about the migraine! Hope it subsides soon.

I understand completely what you mean. But as you point out, it's not easy to remember at all. And all you need is someone saying "Hey, Patsy bought a pineapple at Safeway the day before the murder" to unravel all those lies. Then she looks REALLY bad, because it's not just a lie, it's a lie about something apparently inconsequential.

Your logic makes perfect sense to me if PR decided to lie about JBR being awake, and everything else was to cover up that lie.


I think we both see things that don't "add up" and jump to different conclusions. Mostly, if I think about things like the ransom note and the pineapple and being awake vs. being asleep, I think either PR was telling the truth, or she did a really rotten job of lying.

 

[UKGuy]

The important aspect about the pineapple is that it demonstrates that JonBenet was awake at some point, after she arrived back from the Whites, that is she was not in a coma or dead!

This also illustrates why its highly improbable that an intruder abducted her from her bed, why would the intruder stop off in the kitchen for a pineapple snack, why not take it down to the basement?


.

 

[T-Rex]

That's exactly it--she got caught in a lie--and not just a lie, but a lie about something apparently inconsequential!
(You put that really well--even if you and I see it differently!)

 

[Lurker Steve]

That's exactly it--she got caught in a lie--and not just a lie, but a lie about something apparently inconsequential!
(You put that really well--even if you and I see it differently!)

It's not clear to me she was caught in a lie. The only evidence I've seen that indicates JBR was awake when she got home is Burke saying so.

 

[hollyjokers]

The important aspect about the pineapple is that it demonstrates that JonBenet was awake at some point, after she arrived back from the Whites, that is she was not in a coma or dead!

This also illustrates why its highly improbable that an intruder abducted her from her bed, why would the intruder stop off in the kitchen for a pineapple snack, why not take it down to the basement?


.

By the same token, why would an intruder put her hair in that strange manner & why would an intruder draw a heart on the palm of her hand? That seems more likely that someone was "grooming" her, gaining her trust with food, playing beauty parlor etc. than one or both parents accidentally killed their child & stage an elaborate cover-up which includes a silly hairstyle, & mysterious valentine on her hand.

 

[Tristan]

The significance of the pineapple, is that Patsy claims she did not give Jonbenet pineapple that night, yet it was found in her system, thus, at
some point, Jonbenet consumed it.

We can conclude one of the following:

1.Jonbenet was awake when they returned from the Whites, and ate some
pineapple with her family.
~If this is the case, then Patsy may have lied about the pineapple solely to
back up her story that Jonbenet went straight from the car to bed that night.

or

2. The intruder grabbed Jonbenet from her bed, got a little hungry, so he
made a quick pit stop in the kitchen for some fresh fruit before molesting
and killing Jonbenet.

Now, which one sounds more plausible??

 

[Lurker Steve]

The significance of the pineapple, is that Patsy claims she did not give Jonbenet pineapple that night, yet it was found in her system, thus, at
some point, Jonbenet consumed it.

We can conclude one of the following:

1.Jonbenet was awake when they returned from the Whites, and ate some
pineapple with her family.
~If this is the case, then Patsy may have lied about the pineapple solely to
back up her story that Jonbenet went straight from the car to bed that night.

or

2. The intruder grabbed Jonbenet from her bed, got a little hungry, so he
made a quick pit stop in the kitchen for some fresh fruit before molesting
and killing Jonbenet.

Now, which one sounds more plausible??

Or to put it another way...

1. Jonbenet was awake when she returned home from the Whites, had some pineapple, and went to sleep. PR either forgot (unlikely) or lied about giving a child a snack before bed.

or

2. The intruder tried to get JBR's trust by feeding and comforting her. Then, after getting her trust, molested and murdered her.

Lots of sexual predictors do something like the latter - gain the child's trust somehow, then move in for the 'kill.'

 

[Tristan]

Or to put it another way...

1. Jonbenet was awake when she returned home from the Whites, had some pineapple, and went to sleep. PR either forgot (unlikely) or lied about giving a child a snack before bed.

or

2. The intruder tried to get JBR's trust by feeding and comforting her. Then, after getting her trust, molested and murdered her.

Lots of sexual predictors do something like the latter - gain the child's trust somehow, then move in for the 'kill.'

I don't see this as particularly likely.
Jonbenet would NOT have sat down and had a snack with a total stranger.
I'm sure patsy, like most mothers, told Jonbenet NEVER to talk to strangers. What Mother doesn't?? This child was 6 years old....she would
have been terrified if a strange man approached her in the middle of the night. Seriously.

As to your other theory, *why* would Patsy lie about giving her the snack if she had nothing to hide??? 'nuff said.

 

[Lurker Steve]

I don't see this as particularly likely.
Jonbenet would NOT have sat down and had a snack with a total stranger.
I'm sure patsy, like most mothers, told Jonbenet NEVER to talk to strangers. What Mother doesn't?? This child was 6 years old....she would
have been terrified if a strange man approached her in the middle of the night. Seriously.

As to your other theory, *why* would Patsy lie about giving her the snack if she had nothing to hide??? 'nuff said.

To the first... most mothers do. Yet there are still kidnappings and murders of children by strangers.

(And that's assuming that JBR didn't know this guy. Maybe she did. There were suspicions for a long time that someone the Ramsey's knew was the perp. And child predators know how to get a kid's trust.)

To your second point, what's to hide about giving your kid a snack before bed? If they had fed her pineapple and then killed her a few minutes later, and knew enough about forensics to know that the coroner would be able to tell this, then yeah, it makes sense to deny. But it was a few hours. Plenty of time to say she went to bed, and the intruder broke in soon after.


If Patsy was innocent, she wouldn't lie about it. If she was guilty, lying about it makes a little more sense, but not much. Heck, at least I'd admit to buying the pineapple - the alternative is that an intruder lugged one in, which most of us find a bit weird - and managed to spend an hour or two with her before killing her.



How about this as an academic exercise. Say you were PR/JR and you did the murder. What would you do differently? Could you do a better job of making yourself look innocent?

I think most of us could do that.