The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[Ladybulldog]

I think it goes to Terri's character and mindset, that she uses sex to get what she wants from men. Offering sex is the same ploy Terri used with the landscaper who says she tried to get him to kill her husband. LE said the LS's sexting is similar to MC's (showing MC sealed documents and taking pictures of the RO with Kaine's new address) possibly trying to get MC to help her abduct little K. I think Terri was using these men to lure them into doing things they would not normally do. IMO

 

[desquire]

Kaine and Terri(through their lawyers or otherwise) are not allowed to modify an FAPA RO without a motion from either party to the court requesting modification of the order. Any parenting plan that they work together on outside of court MUST be accepted by a judge and it must be in the course of a MODIFICATION HEARING that either party MUST motion for. The judge is NOT required to accept any out of court arrangement that the two parties may come to and may also still have questions not pertaining to the parenting plan that the two have agreed on in order to make his decision about whether a modification should occur.

So yes, they were *allowed* to do it, but without the very important step(the step that Terri and her lawyer withdrew and NEVER FILED in the 3 months that they claimed to have been working hard at trying to get parenting time) of motioning the court for a hearing and receiving a court date where the judge will decide based on testimony from both sides, whether or not a modification of the order is appropriate.

So again, the claim that they have been working hard behind the scenes is disingenuous at best.

I'm really puzzled by the logic behind your conclusion (BBM). You seem to be admitting (finally) that the parties can reach their own settlement terms with respect to either the RO parenting terms or the custody terms of the divorce. Then you correctly note that such agreement must be finally embodied in an order of the court, either through a modification of the restraining order or entry of a domestic relations order in the divorce. (Frankly, I think you are way off base in your belief that the judge will review the merits of the substance of any such agreement between the parties and impose his own terms sua sponte. Sure, the judge has that authority but, in the absence of extraordinary circumstances, it is so inimical to the interests of the state and the system that it is almost never done. In practice, a judge will only reject a settlement agreement between two competent adults represented by counsel if it imposes requirements that exceed or limit the statutory authority of the court or it's repudiated by one of the parties prior to judgment.) What I don't understand is how you can take those two facts and reach the conclusion that have: "the parties may reach an amicable settlement agreement and such an agreement needs to be blessed by the court in the form of an order incorporating its terms, therefore, neither party could have been working towards a settlement agreement." I've read this in a number of your posts and I still must be missing something in your thought process because to me it sounds like 1+2=0. Help me understand.

 

[debs]

I dont think the case that she shouldnt see her child was based just on text messages though. I think it goes to show how disgraceful and disrespectful she was to her husband when he would need her the most. She was also last seen with his child and refuses to answer questions when directly asked by him about the missing child, I just dont know how anyone can act like thats nothing and not a problem, I mean just all that and not factoring in the sexts were more than enough to prove their point, the sexts were just the icing on the cake, and Terri shared that pic knowing she was being monitored, which makes her actions more bizarre. If one wants to argue this sexting is normal between adults, thats fine, but when you are doing it knowing all these people are reading it, then sorry, I do think something is wrong with someone that eager to show her goods, I would not want a child around this kind of hypersexual exhibitionist. jmo

I'm lost as to how one should think Kaine can plead (which by the way he hasn't, near as I can tell) that Terri is disgraceful and disrespectful when he would need her most when in fact he'd slapped her with divorce papers, a restraining order and absconded with their child.

Terri also wasn't "doing it" for all the world to see. We can blame her for shortsightedness in not assuming that MC would run as fast as he could to Kaine with whatever he'd received on his phone, but we surely can't fault Terri for behaving like an extremely large portion of society behaves at any given time.

Adding them to what seems like reasonable concerns doesn't benefit his cause to show she's unfit for any parenting time at all. These texts don't address her parenting.

 

[eyes4crime]

The purpose of the defense is to make the prosecution 'prove' its case. Since there are no charges, and hence no case to defend, Houzer must defend Terri from the divorce/family law team allegations that his client is a disingenuous, dangerous, irresponsible, sexed up drunk, who murdered her step-son.

The following is not to excuse Terri, but to offer alternative explanations for what people are using as evidence of murder. moo

For the record, I feel the allegation that Terri 'did something terrible to Kyron' has NO place in family court.

Regarding alcohol: Terri joins the company of over 17.6 million Americans with alcohol related problems.

Regarding PPD: Did Terri try to mask the pain of PPD by using alcohol and in doing so, did she trigger previous alcoholic tendencies? Did she have violent tendencies in the past?

Regarding sexting: Is sexting sexually graphic pictures of oneself cheating? Is it an act that suggests an unhappy, dysfunctional, marriage or a sex addiction, or a disenchanted coping mechanism? When did sexting become a criminal issue?

Sex, alcohol, depression, and a missing child..as Emma Peel suggests, perhaps the strategy is to let it all wind down and deflate. Because unless you can tie it all to missing Kyron, it's quite meaningless. Grounds for divorce, I suppose, but that's not what this case is supposed to be about.

No matter what the strategy of the defense team is, if Houze ever defends Terri against a murder one charge, per our Constitution, he will make the prosecution prove its case, not through family court, but through criminal court. all just my opinions and stuff like that.

Where is our adorable little Kyron? It's been almost half a year since he has gone missing.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/alcoholism.html

ETA: OOps, sorry ms. Emma Peel, put Anna by mistake. now changed.

 

[debs]

I think it goes to Terri's character and mindset, that she uses sex to get what she wants from men. Offering sex is the same ploy Terri used with the landscaper who says she tried to get him to kill her husband. LE said the LS's sexting is similar to MC's (showing MC sealed documents and taking pictures of the RO with Kaine's new address) possibly trying to get MC to help her abduct little K. I think Terri was using these men to lure them into doing things they would not normally do. IMO

Offering sex isn't illegal. These text messages said nothing about killing her husband. The only thing they managed to do is kill a lot of people's appetites. But they're not anything other than adult messages to an adult.

 

[Chablis]

I'm lost as to how one should think Kaine can plead (which by the way he hasn't, near as I can tell) that Terri is disgraceful and disrespectful when he would need her most when in fact he'd slapped her with divorce papers, a restraining order and absconded with their child.

Terri also wasn't "doing it" for all the world to see. We can blame her for shortsightedness in not assuming that MC would run as fast as he could to Kaine with whatever he'd received on his phone, but we surely can't fault Terri for behaving like an extremely large portion of society behaves at any given time.

Adding them to what seems like reasonable concerns doesn't benefit his cause to show she's unfit for any parenting time at all. These texts don't address her parenting.

Well, I am lost as to why Kaine is supposed to pull a Ron Cummings and keep Terri close and in the home exposing her to another child AFTER cops came to him and said, Hey she wanted you dead! Shes also the last person known with Kyron and she cant answer Kaines questions about that day, and we are supposed to forget this why? And yes, at the time Terri took lewd pics of her body, she knew the cops were mointering her, as we see her talk about getting clean phones, so she knew they would see those pictures of her.

And I have addressed why I think the texts were entered and it has nothing to do with showing anything about her parenting, it just goes to show what disgusting things were on her mind in whats supposed to be a terrible time in her life, I wouldnt want that person around any child, not factoring in her sexy texts, there is no good reason she cant answer questions about that day to her husband, there really isnt.

jmo

 

[Ladybulldog]

Offering sex isn't illegal. These text messages said nothing about killing her husband. The only thing they managed to do is kill a lot of people's appetites. But they're not anything other than adult messages to an adult.

I didn't say offering sex was illegal but luring men to do an unlawful acts is. The texts in which were attached were redacted and there were hundreds of texts sent but we were only privy to only seeing some of them. As i recall Terri asked MC to lie for her. LE will not release the sexting between Terri and the LS because it is part of an on going investigation. We don't know what all Terri has said in those texts sent to the LS but LE came forward and said they were similar in nature.

 

[Emma Peel]

IMO it would be easy for Terri to overcome these sexts and their "implications relative to her parenting fitness" in court (IMO they are not relevant to her parenting ability), IF Terri could submit to an evaluation and/or take the stand to get visitation with her baby.

But, for some reason, (that has to do with her rights and her being under some official suspicion with regard to the Kyron disappearance case), with her counsel's advice, she can/will not submit or take the stand.

We are left with that to ponder, aren't we?

Terri asked, Kaine answered, punctuated it with the sexting, and Terri cried foul and withdrew her request.

The inability to take the stand and fight for visitation with the baby sure makes Terri look very wary, at best somehow complicit in SOMETHING to do with Kyron's case...

So what the heck is it?

Is it about the MFH allegations? Is it Terri's inability/failure to provide every detail for the day Kyron went missing? Does it have to do with some carelessness or gross neglect of Terri's that may have led to Kyron's disappearance? Does it have to do with co-conspirators? Or, is it the worst-case Terri scenario?

My wandering, pondering mind wants to know...and worries it won't...anytime soon...

 

[debs]

I didn't say offering sex was illegal but luring men to do an unlawful acts is. The texts in which were attached were redacted and there were hundreds of texts sent but we were only privy to only seeing some of them. As i recall Terri asked MC to lie for her. LE will not release the sexting between Terri and the LS because it is part of an on going investigation. We don't know what all Terri has said in those texts sent to the LS but LE came forward and said they were similar in nature.

I just don't understand....they have no intrinsic value in a civil court proceeding to determine parenting time for K with her mother. I don't see anything in the texts supplied by Kaine which suggest anything you've stated above. That is not to say they exist, of course, but it does make me wonder why enter them at this time when they serve no purpose for the matter at hand, which is determining parenting time for K with her mother.

If they have an intrinsic criminal value, that is for a criminal court....if or when Terri is charged with a criminal act. Texting is not criminal and violated no marital laws, since she was served with divorce papers.

And I will respectfully correct you on one matter: LE did not discuss the texts in any fashion. Rackner, in her motions, stated that the texts were similar in nature.

 

[Trt]

I'm really puzzled by the logic behind your conclusion (BBM). You seem to be admitting (finally) that the parties can reach their own settlement terms with respect to either the RO parenting terms or the custody terms of the divorce. Then you correctly note that such agreement must be finally embodied in an order of the court, either through a modification of the restraining order or entry of a domestic relations order in the divorce. (Frankly, I think you are way off base in your belief that the judge will review the merits of the substance of any such agreement between the parties and impose his own terms sua sponte. Sure, the judge has that authority but, in the absence of extraordinary circumstances, it is so inimical to the interests of the state and the system that it is almost never done. In practice, a judge will only reject a settlement agreement between two competent adults represented by counsel if it imposes requirements that exceed or limit the statutory authority of the court or it's repudiated by one of the parties prior to judgment.) What I don't understand is how you can take those two facts and reach the conclusion that have: "the parties may reach an amicable settlement agreement and such an agreement needs to be blessed by the court in the form of an order incorporating its terms, therefore, neither party could have been working towards a settlement agreement." I've read this in a number of your posts and I still must be missing something in your thought process because to me it sounds like 1+2=0. Help me understand.

BBM...extraordinary circumstances as in the respondent listed on the RO has tried to hire someone to murder the petitioner and that she is involved in the disappearance of petitioner's son(uncontested facts as it relates to the RO).

I haven't (finally) admitted anything other than what I've been stating all along...sure Terri and her lawyers can try to work out a parenting plan with Kaine outside of the court, but that Terri would STILL have to file a motion to have the RO modified and the plan is STILL subject to whether the judge wants to agree to it or not. I've provided several documents to back up my assertions.

My belief is that Terri and her lawyer withdrawing the already needed motion and instead opting to *work outside the court for an agreement* IS disingenuous since, the respondent would still have to file a motion to have the order modified. So why withdraw the motion if you have to file it anyway before any type of contact can happen? I think they are blowing smoke...my opinion based on my understanding of what has to occur before parenting time or ANY contact can be awarded to the respondent.


eta: first BBM...the domestic relations order will not supersede an RO in place unless the two matters have been combined and that has not happened.
JMO

 

[Chablis]

I just don't understand....they have no intrinsic value in a civil court proceeding to determine parenting time for K with her mother. I don't see anything in the texts supplied by Kaine which suggest anything you've stated above. That is not to say they exist, of course, but it does make me wonder why enter them at this time when they serve no purpose for the matter at hand, which is determining parenting time for K with her mother.

If they have an intrinsic criminal value, that is for a criminal court....if or when Terri is charged with a criminal act. Texting is not criminal and violated no marital laws, since she was served with divorce papers.

And I will respectfully correct you on one matter: LE did not discuss the texts in any fashion. Rackner, in her motions, stated that the texts were similar in nature.

Actually, she used her daughter as an excuse to lie to her friend about where she was going, so she did show that she would use her daughter as an excuse to cover up her wearabouts, much like she did when KYRON went missing, and the texts exposed this, so I think they were indeed important to show she is a terrible parent who would use her child to benefit her "needs"

jmo

jmo

 

[debs]

Actually, she used her daughter as an excuse to lie to her friend about where she was going, so she did show that she would use her daughter as an excuse to cover up her wearabouts, much like she did when KYRON went missing, and the texts exposed this, so I think they were indeed important to show she is a terrible parent who would use her child to benefit her "needs"

jmo

jmo

The texts don't reveal that she was not in fact worrying about her child.

 

[Trt]

The texts don't reveal that she was not in fact worrying about her child.

The texts that Kaine provided do...she SAID that she TOLD DeDe she was going to drive around because she was upset about K and the assertion that Kaine doesn't know her favorite toy or blanket...when in reality, she was going to go visit MC(because she wanted to see him, not because Kaine allegedly didn't know K's favorite toy or blanket).

I guess Terri didn't feel it necessary to show that there were actually texts where the concern for K wasn't a manufactured excuse to go do something else.

JMO

 

[Chablis]

The texts don't reveal that she was not in fact worrying about her child.

I didn't say that, I just said they showed she would use her daughter as an excuse, she told DDS that she needed to drive because she was devastated Kaine didn't know what her childs fav blanket was, but she was going to see that guy she was sexting. She could have used just about every other excuse, but she used her daughter, and it seems to be an emerging pattern with Terri.

jmo

 

[PortlandMama]

I've been trying to figure out how best to put my thoughts on this, so please hear me out with the understanding that I am not dismissing anyone's feelings about Terri's behavior--whether inappropriate, dangerous, ugly coping, etc. I think we all agree that whatever Terri's motivation, sexting an acquaintance while under criminal investigation for potentially killing our seven year old and immediately after being forcibly separated from our baby is not something we would ever have done in a million years. :innocent: So, moving on.

What I am aiming to do is to understand the logic of both sides (not sides taken here on Websleuths, but Kaine's and Terri's lawyers in the divorce situation). These very competent lawyers are thinking through these elements logically, and weighing the risks of various strategies while aiming to arrive at the most satisfactory situation according to what their client tells them they want. And that last point is not insignificant. So let's assume that Terri wants two things: a restored relationship with her daughter, and to preserve her freedom. What Kaine wants is also twofold: no contact whatsoever between Terri and his daughter, and to compel Terri to confess to hurting Kyron.

Kaine's desire for no contact is an extreme position. Please don't flame me. :croc: I'm not weighing in on whether or not he's right to take an extreme position. But in Oregon, at least, no visitation at all, not even supervised, is difficult to come by if it's not agreed to by the other party. The burden is on him to show why Terri should not get even supervised visitation. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Proof by legal standards. In other words, more than his heart-of-heart feelings, more than his worst fears. And I don't think what he presented in his response to her motion constituted extraordinary proof. To me, it's worrisome, yes. But it would be more supportive of supervised visitation, if even that. Probably supportive of no overnight stays and unsupervised parenting time during the day. And the sexting portion doesn't seem to support even that, as distasteful as it is. (Remember, this isn't the ethical standard, or the err-on-the-side-of-caution standard, this is the legal standard--not necessarily the same thing!)

This leads me to think two things: He believes he will get (or is hoping he will get) the extraordinary proof (that she was directly involved in the disappearance of Kyron) before this goes before a judge in January. Secondly (and circularly), that he can use the ongoing threat of no contact (now deepened with public humiliation and humiliation before her close friends and family) to elicit some of the very proof he needs. I'm sure Rackner was clear with him about the ways in which his statement and the sexts fell short of being the extraordinary proof needed to get the result they wanted (i.e., no visitation), and yet she was willing to put it out there anyway, presumably to satisfy his goal with respect to Kyron.

So did Terri's lawyers file this motion to see how far Kaine had got in terms of developing extraordinary proof? I.e., calling his bluff? A test? Even knowing that they would then have to withdraw their motion to continue to preserve Terri's fifth amendment rights? (Unless by some miracle he unexpectedly acquiesced. And bearing in mind that they already had the sexts, so this would not have been news to them, but they were being frustrated by not getting information from LE that was being shared with Kaine.) Any other ideas? BTW, the filing of the motion as a test, IMO, would not negate their also working to actually secure her some parenting time via negotiated agreement (hence, not disingenuous). As I said above, she has two interests: self preservation and baby K.

 

[debs]

Not telling DeDe the truth about her trip makes her unfit? MC has stated, and emphatically so, that they have never engaged in sexual activity. Terri states later in those messages that she was worried about something regarding MC and wanted to be able to offer him an ear (I'm supposing an unphotographed ear), and he expresses his thanks for her having been there for him.

That doesn't sound like a woman who cared only for herself. Just sounds like a woman who didn't want everyone all up in her bidniz.

 

[Ladybulldog]

I just don't understand....they have no intrinsic value in a civil court proceeding to determine parenting time for K with her mother. I don't see anything in the texts supplied by Kaine which suggest anything you've stated above. That is not to say they exist, of course, but it does make me wonder why enter them at this time when they serve no purpose for the matter at hand, which is determining parenting time for K with her mother.

If they have an intrinsic criminal value, that is for a criminal court....if or when Terri is charged with a criminal act. Texting is not criminal and violated no marital laws, since she was served with divorce papers.

And I will respectfully correct you on one matter: LE did not discuss the texts in any fashion. Rackner, in her motions, stated that the texts were similar in nature.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Pol...g-mirrored-talk-with-landscaper-98369624.html

Similarities to Murder-for-Hire plot

Monday's court filing also stated that police had told Kaine that Terri's "sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent (Terri Horman) attempted to hire to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

In the original restraining order filing, Kaine stated that police had told him Terri had tried to hire a landscaper to kill Kaine.

 

[grandmaj]

This is the thread to discuss the filing by Kaine, in answer to Terri's motion for visitation. Which motion by Terri has been withdrawn.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118073"]2010.10.25 New Response from KH Filed - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

The thread you are in now is the sext thread.

We have taken this thread totally off topic.

Discuss the motion in the link above in context of the reasons Kaine gives for not wanting Terri to have visitation. I have warned 4 times to stay on topic in this thread. Next time it closes.

Discuss the text messages and what they say in this thread..... Thanks.

 

[Trt]

Not telling DeDe the truth about her trip makes her unfit? MC has stated, and emphatically so, that they have never engaged in sexual activity. Terri states later in those messages that she was worried about something regarding MC and wanted to be able to offer him an ear (I'm supposing an unphotographed ear), and he expresses his thanks for her having been there for him.

That doesn't sound like a woman who cared only for herself. Just sounds like a woman who didn't want everyone all up in her bidniz.

IIRC, Terri says she is worried about whether MC is still her friend(that they are still good, paraphrased), not that she was worried about him. JMO

 

[Chablis]

Not telling DeDe the truth about her trip makes her unfit? MC has stated, and emphatically so, that they have never engaged in sexual activity. Terri states later in those messages that she was worried about something regarding MC and wanted to be able to offer him an ear (I'm supposing an unphotographed ear), and he expresses his thanks for her having been there for him.

That doesn't sound like a woman who cared only for herself. Just sounds like a woman who didn't want everyone all up in her bidniz.

Ok, well at this point, Terri was served with divorce papers right? So why did she lie to DDS using her daughter as a reason to get out of the house? Why lie at all? And really, what a drama queen, her whole life was discombobulated because that Kaine didnt know what her childs favorite blanket was, I mean that big jerk! What could he possible have on his mind? Oh, yeah, Kyron.

I am very, very glad she has decided to not fight for her child.

jmo