The Use of the Shovel

[Woe.be.gone]

I think that what Casey meant about the ladder being in the pool is that the ladder is an A frame and one side was in the pool - on these above ground pools, you can't sit on the edge - it damages them, so you climb up the ladder and across the small platform at the top and then down the ladder to get into the pool. Above ground pools are about 52" to 54" tall typically. I believe Casey is around 5 ft - 5ft 1in tall (60 - 61") - not tall at all. So, if the ladder is in the pool, for her to get it out of there by herself, she might need something to use as leverage to tip the ladder back towards her in order to grasp the rails high enough to pull the ladder out of the pool. I think that is what she was talking about. I could be wrong, but that's what comes to mind for me.

There is a picture of the ladder against the pool above in Post No. 104. Ladder looks as if it leans against the pool from the outside. Maybe it hooks over the edge of the pool in some way but it's not stradling the pool. Adding that there would have to be stairs inside the pool too but they may be situated much higher and not go down too deep.

The way I interpreted KC's remark is that she picked up the whole ladder out from the pool. Why? - don't know. Not to be a smartarse, but I don't think KC decided to go for a swim -

KC was over at her house a few times in order to do/clean up something regarding the "event" of Caylee's death. What a cold person she appears to be and shallow, very shallow.

 

[MsRyber]

If Casey had just called 9-1-1 and screamed "My baby fell in the pool!!! Get here!" and screamed, cried, whatever, even pretended to do CPR while the ambulance showed (even if she had drowned 5 minutes before), she would probably not be in this position. Instead she would look like a mother who was in the middle of laundry, or in the bathroom and her baby managed to get out the door and tried desperately to save her. It happens all of the time, unfortunately.
She would be the grieving mother, getting all of the attention for an unfortunate "accident". And within a month or two, she would have been back to the clubs. But I guess there was still that pesky cheque/stealing thing to deal with.

I've always wondered how many drowning accidents are really homicides, to be honest.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Again, I have to ask, "How did the ladder get in the pool?" We have an above ground pool and my dd has one exactly like the A's, the ladder does not just fall into the pool. It's an A frame ladder that sits over the edge of the pool with the base of one ladder going into the pool and the base of the other sitting on the ground outside of the pool. To get the ladder into the pool one would have to lift the ladder off the ground from outside the pool, lift it over ones head and push it over into the pool. Our ladder stands 6' and for me at 5'4" to get over the edge of the pool is a pain in the @ss (we remove it after every swim because we have little ones)
I just can't understand how the ladder got into the pool.

Does your ladder look like the one you posted above? That does not look like a long part is inside the pool. CA talked a lot about how they always were sure to "move" the ladder away from the pool when then finished swimming since Caylee was now able to use it on her own they feared. It never sounded like a big deal - just move the ladder.

 

[MsRyber]

My question is...if the shovel was just to retrieve the ladder, why go to all of that trouble? Why not just use a broom/bar mop from the Anthony household?
Nope, it was to get in that shed, no doubt about it. But were there any marks/damage done to the shed itself? I can't imagine Casey being able to break the lock free and clear without hitting the shed. Obviously she managed to break it, somehow....or has that actually been determined? (GA has said the shed was broken into multiple times...am unsure if one of those times was that particular incident, or if the gas can thing happened prior to the shovel being used).

 

[momtective]

There is a picture of the ladder against the pool above in Post No. 104. Ladder looks as if it leans against the pool from the outside. Maybe it hooks over the edge of the pool in some way but it's not stradling the pool.

The way I interpreted KC's remark is that she picked up the whole ladder out from the pool. Why? - don't know. Not to be a smartarse, but I don't think KC decided to go for a swim -

KC was over at her house a few times in order to do/clean up something regarding the "event" of Caylee's death. What a cold person she appears to be and shallow, very shallow.

The ladder does straddle the pool. Although this is a shorter ladder than the one on the Anthony's pool, it's almost identical to the one on their pool.

 

[Kimster]

I don't take any credence to the ladder in the pool OR the shovel being used to pull it out. Its a possibility? However, to me its more like a story KC told CA in a moment to explain something CA asked her about the ladder and the shovel. Everything out of KC's mouth is a lie. Yeah maybe the shovel was in the pool, but until evidence of that comes from LE, I don't believe a word of it.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Maybe the pool ladder was meant to be secured to the pool. If left loose and a small child climbed up to the top and lost balance or rocked back and forth thus grabbing those tall handles it could potentially flip the ladder.

If made of PVC tubing the ladder may float when in the pool.

Maybe the whole incident is because the ladder was left up against the pool, was improperly attached in the first place, etc. Therefore, the exact thing CA never wanted to happen in the first place by always moving the ladder away from the pool happened because of an improperly attached ladder.

Just a theory based on the new information. This scenario would also explain why the A's have always seemed a little guilty or having knowledge of the truth.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Does anyone remember the date that CA talked about in an early TV interview about the pool ladder being moved, and her blaming GA?

I remember CA talking about the ladder a lot and the fact that they always made sure to move it away from the pool after they were done swimming. I don't think KC would give the same attention to the matter.

I don't remember CA blaming GA but that doesn't mean she didn't. She may have been blaming anyone she could while trying to figure it out herself. I remember she called the police and told them about finding the ladder up against the pool close to the date they last saw Caylee but, of course, this was a month later that she was recalling/calling.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I remember CA talking about the ladder a lot and the fact that they always made sure to move it away from the pool after they were done swimming. I don't think KC would give the same attention to the matter.

I don't remember CA blaming GA but that doesn't mean she didn't. She may have been blaming anyone she could while trying to figure it out herself. I remember she called the police and told them about finding the ladder up against the pool close to the date they last saw Caylee but, of course, this was a month later that she was recalling/calling.

I remember both her and GA talking about it. That CA called GA and asked "did you move the pool ladder, did you go swimming today?" or something to that effect. GA saying "No, I didn't swim today". Not that it means anything here, but just that the ladder seems to be an issue and I remember them talking about it in an interview.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If Casey had just called 9-1-1 and screamed "My baby fell in the pool!!! Get here!" and screamed, cried, whatever, even pretended to do CPR while the ambulance showed (even if she had drowned 5 minutes before), she would probably not be in this position. Instead she would look like a mother who was in the middle of laundry, or in the bathroom and her baby managed to get out the door and tried desperately to save her. It happens all of the time, unfortunately.
She would be the grieving mother, getting all of the attention for an unfortunate "accident". And within a month or two, she would have been back to the clubs. But I guess there was still that pesky cheque/stealing thing to deal with.

I've always wondered how many drowning accidents are really homicides, to be honest.

I know someone it happened to at their lake house. The mom thought the g-mom was watching the kids and vice a versa. They had just pulled up and were unloading their car. The two year old child was excited to be back at the lake and ran down there. After panick they all ran around looking for him - worst case - found him face down in the lake. Heart break and self blame followed but they never hid what had happened and all blame themselves for not paying close enough attention. No one thought he'd leave the pack like that on his own.

 

[snow_walker]

Is there any sort of platform or other 'thing'.. like a big drain or something inside those pools? Or are they just what they seem, a big plain dish full of water?

 

[momtective]

Is there any sort of platform or other 'thing'.. like a big drain or something inside those pools? Or are they just what they seem, a big plain dish full of water?

They are just a big dish of water with a small outflow port attached to a hose which is attached to a pump. The second port is for filtered water to re enter the pool. Both are about 4" in diameter with a hose attached to the outside of the pool at each port. No big drain or anything like that.

 

[momtective]

The safety gate on the ladder is there to prevent kids from swimming between the pool wall and the ladder, where they might get stuck between the ladder and the pool wall.
Just notice the design of the pool ladder though. I'm tellin' ya, if that ladder was in the pool, someone put it there. It didn't just fall in the pool.

 

[Balthazar]

If you look at the design, the pool ladder has a hinge on the outside steps which makes it possible to raise the ladder and safety gate that is inside the pool. You would do this by pulling back on the handles of the platform from the top of the handles. I think that Casey may be too short or not strong enough to do this and used the shovel to raise the platform and steps inside the pool so she could reach the handles and take the ladder off of the pool. Alternatively, she may have used the shovel to close or move the safety gate that is inside the pool without getting wet, prior to removing the ladder.

 

[snow_walker]

My best guess then remains, that little Caylee's body was wedged under that ladder for a time. Seeing the safety gate thing now in the picture, I would say that is what was used ..there is a bit of space at the bottom... it would hold the poor little things body down, and also help to conceal it a little from a casual glance. (sigh)

 

[OneLostGrl]

I remember both her and GA talking about it. That CA called GA and asked "did you move the pool ladder, did you go swimming today?" or something to that effect. GA saying "No, I didn't swim today". Not that it means anything here, but just that the ladder seems to be an issue and I remember them talking about it in an interview.

mmhmm.. she asked George and Casey. After she asked Casey and she said she didn't do it she said something like "well, dad said he didn't even come home" and then something like "I must be losing my mind". I think it was in texts with Casey.

 

[Mom4life]

We have an above ground pool and what we used to do was detach the ladder on the outside of the pool to keep the kids from climbing on it...We would move it and hang it on the side of our garage out of reach..

If the 'ladder' itself was detached and put in the pool it would sink thus needing something like a shovel to retrieve it..Why it would be put in the pool in the first place is another thing..

 

[Just Jayla]

I remember both her and GA talking about it. That CA called GA and asked "did you move the pool ladder, did you go swimming today?" or something to that effect. GA saying "No, I didn't swim today". Not that it means anything here, but just that the ladder seems to be an issue and I remember them talking about it in an interview.

GA told LE that CA called him and gave him crap about leaving the ladder at the pool and the gate open-He told her it wasn't him. But he could not remember the date at that time. I think CA or phone records may have established their date of this conversation, but I would have to look that up.

 

[In da Middle]

With our above ground pool the outer part of the ladder pivots at the top and you swing the lower part up for safety. It is really easy to do, but if you are not careful it "could" over pivot and fall into the pool. But the plastic is hollow and it would float for quite some time.

I guess she is small enough that she might not be able to reach it if it did fall in (and float), but I would think living in that family they would have a bijillion brooms or mops or something long to extend the reach that would be much easier to get than go to the neighbors house for a shovel. Plus a shovel is much heavier than many other things to use to extend your reach.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

GA told LE that CA called him and gave him crap about leaving the ladder at the pool and the gate open-He told her it wasn't him. But he could not remember the date at that time. I think CA or phone records may have established their date of this conversation, but I would have to look that up.

Ringing bells with me now . . .

So does anybody know is it easy to move the ladder away from the pool? CA said she did it all the time. You mean you just move the outer stairs? Is CA that much taller than KC?

What do you think the ladder is made out of?