Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 2)

[Pharlap]

Well, that was definitely worthless. The car belongs to the brothers. LE found evidence of drug and alcohol use in the car. I'm not sure how that relates to what was found in the tiger's enclosure though.

Were there illegal drugs that they can be charged with? In there car.
Coke, meth?

 

[Taximom]

They didn't say, pharlap. I thought they were going to be able to prove something in the car was thrown into the enclosure.

 

[FlowerChild]

They didn't say, pharlap. I thought they were going to be able to prove something in the car was thrown into the enclosure.

The investigators have been playing this VERY close to the vest since day one. Perhaps they saw some sort of slingshot or even empty packaging for slingshots or projectiles in the car? Just because it wasn't released to the media does NOT mean they don't have some evidence visible IN the car that can be connected to the allegations that they "teased" or "aggravated" Tatiana. The young men in question (and their lawyer) are pretty darn desperate to keep investigators from searching the car OR reviewing the contents of their cell phones. If they were so darn "innocent" why the problem? And we know there are allegations of liquor bottles being in the vehicle BUT one young man is over 21 and they weren't caught DRIVING under the influence so I don't think a vodka bottle is the full extent of what they are so afraid of investigators finding.

I have a feeling that they got all "partied up" and decided to go to the Zoo and make some videos of themselves - a-la Jacka$$ - being stupid, taking risks, teasing the big cats, apes, etc. Anyone know if they had any videos on You Tube or My Space doing such things before (not at the zoo, but other "don't try this at home" stuff)???

My Opinion

 

[Beffie]

I was wondering if this has been discussed could there have been a chance the people (not sure how I feel about calling them men) could of been on a gang initiation (sp?). Why else would they go on a Christmas day? They knew alot of people were not going to be there. I really do not know much about this story, just that I feel bad the Tiger had to be killed and the 17 year old lost his life. I just get such a bad feeling about the two surviving people, they are definately shady.

I always take my kids to the zoo and I remember a man in the gorilla exhibit (there is glass that is around the gorillas to protect the animal and visitors) and he went up to the glass and stared at the big male gorilla and started beating his chest the gorilla got so mad he picked up a tire (used in the exhibit as a toy) and threw it at the man, you could really tell the gorilla was upset and felt challanged, however he was a male and his family was also with him, and probably felt the need to protect his family (there was some young ones). I imagine this type of taunting happens alot, but I think what Tatiana went through was much worse (just my own feeling, I have no PROOF she was......this is just my feeling).

 

[kgeaux]

kgeaux Read the article buzz posted the entire thing. The tiger attacked them in front of its enclosure is the way i read it.And of course they will deny taunting the tiger.Yes I feel sorry for Carlos an agree the ZOO is liable also. My big thing if all they were doing is talking and laughing why not let the police look at the cell phones?

I've read the article JDB. I was just making the point that unless the zoo and police are able to prove they stood there and taunted Tatiana, or unless there is eyewitness testimony to such, then these guys can always say they walked up to see the tigers and one was already out.......I do not believe that is what happened. But without evidence of severe taunting, it is entirely possible.

I am only going to post this once.

Tatiana was in that enclosure for YEARS (literally). She never tried to get out before. She was apparently content to stay there until something aggitated her so badly she felt the need to get out of it. YEARS and no, the zoo is not at fault. Just rememember that. She was in there for YEARS and content to stay in there for YEARS until whatever happened, happened.

It's not like she decided, "Hey! It's Christmas, maybe I'll go out and get me some human meat for a change to treat myself."

The brothers refusal to talk even to give their names indicates to me that they were guilty of causing her enough aggitation to get out of the enclosure.

I'm not sure any of us can say how Tatiana felt on that day or on any days leading up to the attack. Would we necessarily know if she had tried to escape before? Do you think the zoo would release that information as quickly as they released the brothers' arrest records?

I am highly suspicious because of their refusal to identify themselves, along with other circumstancial things. BUT nothing about their refusal tells me it absolutely means they taunted Tatiana. They may have had other compelling reasons.

Since we know the Dhaliwal brothers lied to the father, what makes you think they are telling the truth to the mother??? I think they are lying to her too when they say they didn't taunt the tiger, they probably were laughing at the tiger at minimum, we have a witness to them roaring at the lions!

Did I say I thought they told the truth? I don't think I did. What I said was that I believe the mother has been niave for a long time.

There may be federal charges since Tatiana, a Siberain Tiger, is on the endangered species list. If an investigation can prove they provoked her or threw objects into the enclosure this would be a federal crime.

LE is saying the most would be misdemeanor charges, and that they don't even have evidence enough to arrest for that. Are you sure they could be charged with a federal crime?

 

[JDB]

If IRC the brother told the mom. The tiger leap out an attacked. So that would mean the tiger was still inside.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Change Of Venue In Tiger Attack Evidence Dispute

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS 5 / AP / BCN) ― A dispute over possible evidence in the cell phones and car of two brothers who were mauled by a San Francisco zoo tiger was transferred Friday from San Francisco to Santa Clara Superior Court. After a brief morning hearing, San Francisco Superior Court Commissioner Bruce Chan ordered a change of venue in the case.

Santa Clara County Judge Socrates Manoukian immediately scheduled a hearing for Wednesday and also issued a temporary order requiring San Francisco police to maintain custody of the personal property seized from the victims.

The San Francisco city attorney's office said the car and photos in the cell phones may contain crucial evidence that the victims taunted the tiger, provoking the animal to escape its pen.

Proof that the victims provoked the tiger would be neede to defend the city in any legal action against the zoo, the city attorney's office argued at Friday's hearing. In court, Deputy City Attorney Sean Connolly told Chan that "something happened to provoke that attack" and said, "The city wants nothing more than the truth and wants that truth preserved."

http://cbs5.com/local/zoo.tiger.evidence.2.627869.html

 

[kgeaux]

I was wondering if this has been discussed could there have been a chance the people (not sure how I feel about calling them men) could of been on a gang initiation (sp?)

The pictures of the funeral were interesting. Lots of young people, dressed sorta like you'd 'picture' gang members dressing. Comments left to their 'homie.' Of course that doesn't mean they are gang members. Or that if they are, they were involved in an initiation. It's a possibility, and I would not be shocked to discover they all have gang ties.

I'm wondering why none of the articles reference LE investigating who the fourth young man was? Jennifer Miller, if she is accurate, described three men acting boisterously and roaring at the lions----Carlos was not one of the three. So if police are trying to determine if the tiger was taunted, I wonder why they aren't looking for the other guy?

Did anyone else read this article? http://cbs5.com/local/zoo.leopard.escape.2.627690.html Seems as though a leopard almost got out. And he wasn't being taunted!

 

[jilly]

I watched the video of today's hearing in the link above.

It was mentioned at the hearing that cell phones lose information after 14-21-25 days. The Petitioners don't know the make/model of the phones. Since the hearing in Santa Clara isn't until Jan 16th - evidence may be lost.

 

[JBean]

Here are the docs filed by the city

http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles/cityattorney/TIGER-EVIDENCE-SFSC-DOCUMENTS.PDF

 

[Floh]

I watched the video of today's hearing in the link above.

It was mentioned at the hearing that cell phones lose information after 14-21-25 days. The Petitioners don't know the make/model of the phones. Since the hearing in Santa Clara isn't until Jan 16th - evidence may be lost.

Then they are home free.

 

[JBean]

Did anyone read that filing? Geragos is such a scheming dishonest person. Read pages 16 and 17! Wow.

Well they definitely saw devices in the car that are consistent with catapulting things as well as the alcohol and drug paraphernalia.

One thing for sure..those men do NOT want their cell phones and car searched that is for sure. They are hiding something no doubt.

 

[jilly]

Did anyone read that filing? Geragos is such a scheming dishonest person. Read pages 16 and 17! Wow.

Well they definitely saw devices in the car that are consistent with catapulting things as well as the alcohol and drug paraphernalia.

One thing for sure..those men do NOT want their cell phones and car searched that is for sure. They are hiding something no doubt.

I did. Joanne Heoper's declaration! Unreal. Just a jerk.

They even made reference to materials or whatever found in car which were found in the grotto didn't they? (It was a lot to read - but there was something about that).

The only good thing I can see is that Geragos has met his match with these 2 clients.

 

[JBean]

I did. Joanne Heoper's declaration! Unreal. Just a jerk.

They even made reference to materials or whatever found in car which were found in the grotto didn't they? (It was a lot to read - but there was something about that).

The only good thing I can see is that Geragos has met his match with these 2 clients.

He really is a jerk. Yes and they made refernce to devices used to throw the items.
The men do not want their phones preserved that is so obvious.

 

[Buzz Mills]

The life and times of Tatiana the tiger

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7947162?source=rss

 

[heavenlydaze]

I've been following this story with interest. I'm an animal lover and a people lover (yes, I know that people are biologically 'mammals' so don't even start).

This zoo wasn't up to specs. It doesn't matter if the devil himself taunted this tiger. This zoo failed to protect the tiger and the people who were near her.

I personally think these young men are hoodlums and a sad example of what many young people have become, but that doesn't change the fact that if we insist on keeping wild animals on display, we need to understand that there are those among us with little common sense and some with no morality or any feelings of compassion. We need to protect our once-wild friends from such abuse and we are bound by law to save human idiots from themselves.

So, who's at fault? No brainer. Zoo=1/4...Three screwed-up young adults=1/4 each. Who wins?
The lawyers.

That said, my real gripe is with scavengers like Mark Geragos who swoop down on these opportunities like a hyena chuckling over bear carrion. The thing this scavenger needs to realize is...eventually the bear will come back.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Friends had many high and low times before tiger attack
http://www.mercurynews.com/localnewsheadlines/ci_7955219

Comments
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=25928&nav=messages&webtag=mn-comments

 

[JBean]

Friends had many high and low times before tiger attack
http://www.mercurynews.com/localnewsheadlines/ci_7955219

Comments
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=25928&nav=messages&webtag=mn-comments

Did you read the city complaint Buzz? Some real Geragos shenanigans in there.

 

[Marthatex]

Friends had many high and low times before tiger attack
http://www.mercurynews.com/localnewsheadlines/ci_7955219

Comments
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=25928&nav=messages&webtag=mn-comments

How did Paul afford a black mercedes selling kitchen utensils door-to-door?

 

[jilly]

The car with the SFPD is a BMW M3 Sports Coupe with tinted windows. I kinda wondered what kind of jobs these guys had. What would be the Agency that could look into this - IRS?