Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 2)

[fundiva]

We do NOT know that the tiger escaped because of provocation, Linas! We do know her back claws showed she had tried this escape before.......maybe this time she made it?

We only have a statement that her hind claws were wore down. That could have been from this particular incident. There is no proof that this is from previous attempts to get out. Pure speculation.

 

[fundiva]

This is so true. And, maybe zoos all over will now measure, test or whatever it takes to endure that all enclosures are secure and at least to standard. This is one good thing that come come from this.

Lion

This enclosure was inspected many times since it was built by the national agency in charge of such things. Not once has the zoo been cited or required to make any upgrades because of lack of height, etc. IMO this means the zoo did meet all the requirements.

 

[Clearly Confused]

I am trying to look at this like it was my son. People that are good, bad or ugly don't deserve to die at the zoo. Now, had I read they were dangling a steak or chunk of meat to lure the tiger out then that would be a different story. People and animals should be safe from each other at the zoo.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am trying to look at this like it was my son. People that are good, bad or ugly don't deserve to die at the zoo. Now, had I read they were dangling a steak or chunk of meat to lure the tiger out then that would be a different story. People and animals should be safe from each other at the zoo.

Wild, big cats ,even in cages have natural instincts..... He was a big dangling living piece of meat. ...he was prey. To a pissed off tiger, it's the same thing.

 

[Clearly Confused]

Wild, big cats ,even in cages have natural instincts..... He was a big dangling living piece of meat. ...he was prey. To a pissed off tiger, it's the same thing.

True..I just didn't think they smelled like what they are normally given for dinner. Like I said the zoo should have been able to protect both the people and the animals.

 

[hockeymom]

I saw a Big Cat expert on TV this morning. To be fair,every expert agrees,the zoo is clearly liable here,no doubt about it. The wall should have been taller and there should have been some clear cut procedures that are followed in the event that the worst happens(doesn't appear if they had some sort of policy,that it was followed).
Anyway,what this man said is that unlike lions,who will attack unprovoked,to prove they are"the King of the jungle",tigers keep to themselves and shy away from human contact. He feels this tiger had to be pretty PO'd to leave the enclosure(not just roaring noises) and most definitley would have specifically targeted the people who aggravated it. He said if this had happened in the middle of the day with lots of people around,it still would have gone after the people who got it mad,not just random people.
Very interesting. now they will become 2 very wealthy jacka**es.

 

[Pharlap]

3 of the 4 men were the predators at that time, harassing the tiger,
and we don't know what else they did.
The tigers instinct took over, trying to defend his home.
I'm sure everyone here knows this is a wild animal.

No win, win situation.

 

[Pharlap]

I saw a Big Cat expert on TV this morning. To be fair,every expert agrees,the zoo is clearly liable here,no doubt about it. The wall should have been taller and there should have been some clear cut procedures that are followed in the event that the worst happens(doesn't appear if they had some sort of policy,that it was followed).
Anyway,what this man said is that unlike lions,who will attack unprovoked,to prove they are"the King of the jungle",tigers keep to themselves and shy away from human contact. He feels this tiger had to be pretty PO'd to leave the enclosure(not just roaring noises) and most definitley would have specifically targeted the people who aggravated it. He said if this had happened in the middle of the day with lots of people around,it still would have gone after the people who got it mad,not just random people.
Very interesting. now they will become 2 very wealthy jacka**es.

Good read......

 

[Buzz Mills]

This enclosure was inspected many times since it was built by the national agency in charge of such things. Not once has the zoo been cited or required to make any upgrades because of lack of height, etc. IMO this means the zoo did meet all the requirements.

Exactly fundiva.

 

[jilly]

Here's an article regarding what this latest witness saw:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/young-man-killed-by-tiger-was-quiet-one-witness-says/?

A witness to the incident added weight to that claim in an interview today in The San Francisco Chronicle, saying that the young men “were roaring at” the zoo’s lions and acting “boisterous” for the four to five minutes when she was watching.

But the witness, Jennifer Miller, apparently did not add anything to the suspicions being investigated by police that a large rock, a tree branch and other items were thrown into another exhibit area holding the 350-pound tiger.

If the police conclude that a crime was committed, it would be a misdemeanor.

Lawyers for the men flatly denied that there had been teasing of any kind, and a police official pointed out that Ms. Miller’s account could amount to “what kindergartners do at the zoo every day,” The Chronicle reported.

“The lion was bristling, so I just said, ‘Come on, let’s get out of here.’ ” Ms. Miller said. “My kids were disturbed by it.”

The tiger’s rampage began minutes later, and didn’t end until two of the young men were hurt, and another, Carlos Sousa Jr., was killed. According to Ms. Miller, Mr. Sousa was the only one in the group that did not participate in the rough-housing:

“He wasn’t roaring. He wasn’t taunting them,” she recalled. “He kept looking at me apologetically like, ‘I’m sorry, I know we are being stupid.’ “

Of course, no one deserves to be mauled, not even a taunting teenager. But Mr. Sousa’s death seemed especially tragic. The zoo reopened today with new signs posted, evidently inspired by a 17-year-old who died while following the rules:

PLEASE don’t tap on glass, throw anything into exhibits, make excessive noise, tease or call out to them.”

 

[Texana]

I'm going to amend my original response--if the young men were using slingshots, then they were using weapons on the tiger, and they don't deserve a single penny in compensation, but charges instead involving the death of the teenager.

 

[jilly]

This enclosure was inspected many times since it was built by the national agency in charge of such things. Not once has the zoo been cited or required to make any upgrades because of lack of height, etc. IMO this means the zoo did meet all the requirements.

I agree fundiva. Imo, there are many possible mitigating factors for the zoo in this matter. The zoo will have to payout something imo but it's not going to be the winfall that Geragos is hoping for.

 

[Nova]

This enclosure was inspected many times since it was built by the national agency in charge of such things. Not once has the zoo been cited or required to make any upgrades because of lack of height, etc. IMO this means the zoo did meet all the requirements.

We know the zoo did NOT meet all the requirements for containing tigers. Are you saying the SF Zoo is technically in compliance until it is issued a citation that says otherwise? That the SF Zoo should get a pass because the governing bodies were either too incompetent or too corrupt to issue citations?

Fortunately, the law doesn't work that way.

 

[bakerprune64]

I'm going to amend my original response--if the young men were using slingshots, then they were using weapons on the tiger, and they don't deserve a single penny in compensation, but charges instead involving the death of the teenager.

Exactly!

 

[Buzz Mills]

We know the zoo did NOT meet all the requirements for containing tigers. Are you saying the SF Zoo is technically in compliance until it is issued a citation that says otherwise? That the SF Zoo should get a pass because the governing bodies were either too incompetent or too corrupt to issue citations?

Fortunately, the law doesn't work that way.

Nova, if I am not mistaken, it was AZA (i think these are the initials), the accrediting agency of zoos, that accredited the SF Zoo. Apparently the heights are suggested, not mandatory, but nevertheless, the SF Zoo, had been approved, and inspected, numerous times. The lion and tiger exhibits at SF, have been in place for quite an extended length of time. But any height, that didn't prevent an escape, wouldn't make the zoo any less liable.

 

[Hopeful One]

I don't feel sorry for idiots who tease animals. If they were actually using a slingshot to throw stuff at the tiger, that's even worse. What kind of people do that???

However, I think we should be able to go to zoos without the risk of being eaten by a runaway tiger. If the tiger got out, no matter if it was being taunted or not, that's an unsafe environment. The zoo should have those animals enclosed in an area where it's impossible for the animal to espcape.

(I won't even go into the fact that I hate zoos and I don't even think we should have them. Poor animals. )

 

[Buzz Mills]

Exactly!

If the brothers injured Tatiana, be it with sling shots, or rocks, they should be criminally charged with Sousa's death, and the death of Tatiana, that's why I am hoping Tatiana was skinned, and thoroughly examined for any bruising. Did any of the articles state how many times Tatiana was shot? I'm sure the officers didn't spare any ammunition; they all probably unloaded full clips.

Does it sound as if I am on the side of Tatiana? Yes, I am.

There are a lot more punks left in this world, than Bengal tigers.

 

[LionRun]

This enclosure was inspected many times since it was built by the national agency in charge of such things. Not once has the zoo been cited or required to make any upgrades because of lack of height, etc. IMO this means the zoo did meet all the requirements.

I heard on several news reports, and it makes sense, that the accepted safe height of a wall/grotto for a tiger enclosure is 16' 4". It was reported (finally after it was perhaps measured?) that the grotto for that zoo had a height of about 12' 5". If the above statements are true, then despite inspections there may have been a huge oversight made by one or more parties.

Lion

 

[Lurker]

I'll probably get slammed for this but this is a very GOOD reason why wild animals shouldn't be caged and held in captivity for the amusement of humans. Zoos and circuses are pretty much the same although the zoo's do treat their animals better. To take an animal out of it's natural habitat and expect it to conform to your ideas is ludicrous. It's a wild animal, that wall could be 14 feet tall or 16 feet tall and who's to say what the height should be? A pissed off tiger could probably scale a 16 foot wall just as easily if it really wanted to.

Circuses disgust me to no end as well, they treat the animals like crap while controlling them with whips and then act surprised when someone gets mauled or stampeded to death.

 

[Buzz Mills]

I heard on several news reports, and it makes sense, that the accepted safe height of a wall/grotto for a tiger enclosure is 16' 4". It was reported (finally after it was perhaps measured?) that the grotto for that zoo had a height of about 12' 5". If the above statements are true, then despite inspections there may have been a huge oversight made by one or more parties.

Lion

Hindsight always has a tendency to make things a lot clearer.