Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 2)

[Buzz Mills]

She also said they were just roaring and acting boisterous.....that would sound more like high on vodka, and falls far short of the type of taunting the zoo hints at. She doesn't mention them throwing things or sling shotting things at the lions, just that they roared at the lions and moved around alot. And although she says she was disturbed by the fact that the lion was bristling enough to compel her to leave, she apparently was not disturbed enough to report the behavior. IF she is a reasonable woman, and it sounds as though she is, that tells me the level of behavior displayed by the guys did not reach the level she thought would need to be reported. In fact, if these guys did not display much more serious behavior by the time they reached the tiger enclosure, then her news falls short of what is going to be needed for the zoo to mitigate its damages.

I am inclined to believe it's possible the guys were drunk, and were acting like drunks......that remains to be proven, of course, but the eye-witness account would seem to support drunkeness.


ASIDE: Why are we still talking about slingshots? Didn't Buzz's article contain the information that police are denying slingshots were found?

Someone needs to account for how all of the foreign objects got into the enclosure; the pine cones, branches, and the 9 lb. rock.

 

[kgeaux]

Someone needs to account for how all of the foreign objects got into the enclosure; the pine cones, branches, and the 9 lb. rock.

Can you please point me to an article in which the police say articles like that were found in the enclosure? I've tried to read everything, but I have missed this.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Can you please point me to an article in which the police say articles like that were found in the enclosure? I've tried to read everything, but I have missed this.

This has been stated in quite a few articles. The 9 lb. is new with regard to the previously stated rock; that may have come from CNN late yesterday

 

[Nova]

This has been stated in quite a few articles. The 9 lb. is new with regard to the previously stated rock; that may have come from CNN late yesterday

I'm like kgeaux on this, Buzz. Some of those reports came out in the early hours along with the "board over the moat" and the tiger "using somebody's leg to climb out" stuff. Surely we all know now that there was a lot of initial speculation and spin aimed at CYA for the zoo and knee-jerk defense of the tiger by animal lovers (however well intended).

At this point, I don't know if anything unusual was found in the enclosure or, if so, whether the object has been tied to the tiger's escape.

 

[Pharlap]

[quote=Nova at CYA

Was that YMCA?

 

[hockeymom]

I'm not sure we will ever know the truth,but I keep going back to the expert I heard this morning,and how something had to really get that tiger mad and essentially hunt down those guys.I don't know what kind of memory these animals have,but is it possable this was not the 1st time they visited the zoo and antagonized animals? Could they have done something previously and then some small provocation brought back a memory?

 

[Pharlap]

I'm not sure we will ever know the truth,but I keep going back to the expert I heard this morning,and how something had to really get that tiger mad and essentially hunt down those guys.I don't know what kind of memory these animals have,but is it possable this was not the 1st time they visited the zoo and antagonized animals? Could they have done something previously and then some small provocation brought back a memory?

Not a bad thought.
Do we have any animal experts on?

 

[LinasK]

Thank you, AlwaysShocked, and Lion. No slingshot. Not even one in the car, Lion! The article says an empty vodka bottle was found in the car. There really seems to be a concerted effort to place all the blame for this on the three young men. The only entity to gain from that tactic is the zoo.






Thanks, Linas. I heard the news about her back claws on a talk show, and they all acted like that was definitive evidence of past escape attempts. I swallowed it, hook, line and sinker. I've been educated now!

We now know police are denying that any slingshot was found......and unless I've missed it, police have not confirmed that pinecones, sticks and other objects that could not have reached the area naturally have been found in the moat. Do you know if that has been confirmed?

I read in an article that the slingshots were found on the brothers at the hospital. Perhaps the police didn't frisk them which is why they didn't find them, doesn't mean it wasn't true. Why would hospital workers lie???

 

[hockeymom]

I read in an article that the slingshots were found on the brothers at the hospital. Perhaps the police didn't frisk them which is why they didn't find them, doesn't mean it wasn't true. Why would hospital workers lie???

And why would they frisk them anyway? They were victims,supposedly not doing anything wrong.

 

[fundiva]

We know the zoo did NOT meet all the requirements for containing tigers. Are you saying the SF Zoo is technically in compliance until it is issued a citation that says otherwise? That the SF Zoo should get a pass because the governing bodies were either too incompetent or too corrupt to issue citations?

Fortunately, the law doesn't work that way.

Actually the zoo did meet the requirements. The zoo doesn't set the standards, the governing body does. If the governing body gives their approval, who is to say they are wrong? As Jilly stated, the lack of citations and approval by a governing body does mitigate the factors and make the zoo less exposed and liable.

 

[Nova]

Yes, exactly. My theory is that the boys taunted the tiger by singing "YMCA" over and over, complete with the hand spelling. I know that might drive me to jump a 12.5' wall and kill somebody.

 

[Nova]

Actually the zoo did meet the requirements. The zoo doesn't set the standards, the governing body does. If the governing body gives their approval, who is to say they are wrong? As Jilly stated, the lack of citations and approval by a governing body does mitigate the factors and make the zoo less exposed and liable.

Sorry, but I've worked on such cases before. If there is mitigation, it ain't much. Oh, yes, the defense will say, "The national body gave us accreditation anyway," and the plaintiff will respond with statements such as we have already heard to the effect that 12.5' isn't tall enough to keep a tiger enclosed. And then add, "They were running a zoo. Why didn't they know that? Or did they know and just not care?"

Of course, it would be even worse if the zoo were not accredited. But approval by a governing body does not immunize one from liability. If it did, we'd have no suits at all against car manufacturers.

In the 1980s, plaintiffs were suing auto manufacturers right and left for not having installed air bags in their cars. Air bags were NOT required by law. Nonetheless, manufacturers paid millions (maybe billions) of dollars as a result of the suit.

 

[LinasK]

Patricia Yollin, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, January 3, 2008

(01-03) 13:38 PST San Francisco - -- It's cold, rainy and windy in the Sunset District today - not a good day to go to the zoo.
But a small crowd of curious residents and tourists gathered at the gates this morning as the San Francisco Zoo reopened, nine days after an escaped tiger killed a San Jose teen and injured two of his friends before police shot it dead.
Just inside the gates, a memorial for 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr. and the Siberian tiger named Tatiana continues to grow. Bouquets, small stuffed tigers and notes that flapped in the wind were placed at the bottom of a bronze tiger statue built in 1942.
"She was a fun-loving tiger who would greet you when you came," Pettitt said. "It's going to be weird that she's not here. I know today I won't see them, but my heart is with the big cats."
The grotto that holds the lions and tigers will be closed until zoo officials complete construction on a reinforced-glass wall that will effectively raise the height of a 12 1/2-foot moat wall. Zoo officials conceded last week that the moat wall is about 4 feet below national standards, possibly allowing Tatiana to escape. The glass addition will raise the height to about 19 feet, officials said.
Among the visitors at the zoo this morning was James Tisdale, a 49-year-old carpenter from Texas who has been visiting his sister in Pacifica.
The family had planned to visit the zoo the day after Christmas. Today was their first chance to make good on the plans.
"I was hoping to slide in the door without anyone noticing," Tisdale said in reference to the phalanx of reporters outside the zoo.
Both Tisdale and his sister, Shirley Hardy, were unconcerned about the risk of more animal attacks.
"It didn't deter us at all," Hardy said. "We are here now to be supportive of the zoo."
San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom toured the zoo on Wednesday for the first time since the Christmas Day tiger mauling.
On Thursday he said he continues to support zoo officials- for now.
"We are reviewing everything that happened and I'm confident, at this stage, in the leadership of the zoo and very confident that everybody did everything they could to protect lives and follow protocols," Newsom said. "But that being said, we'll analyze those protocols and review them and improve them...and we will make sure that we're even more secure in the future."
New additions to the zoo include a public-address system to alert visitors when the 5 p.m. closing time approaches. Signs also have been posted to remind patrons not to harass the animals. more at link:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/03/MNCHU8QPS.DTL

 

[southcitymom]

And yet rodeo riders always look so purty in the movies (see Jake Gyllenhaal, et al.).

It's impossible for Mr. Gyllenhaal to not look purty!!!

 

[Pharlap]

Sorry, but I've worked on such cases before. If there is mitigation, it ain't much. Oh, yes, the defense will say, "The national body gave us accreditation anyway," and the plaintiff will respond with statements such as we have already heard to the effect that 12.5' isn't tall enough to keep a tiger enclosed. And then add, "They were running a zoo. Why didn't they know that? Or did they know and just not care?"

Of course, it would be even worse if the zoo were not accredited. But approval by a governing body does not immunize one from liability. If it did, we'd have no suits at all against car manufacturers.

In the 1980s, plaintiffs were suing auto manufacturers right and left for not having installed air bags in their cars. Air bags were NOT required by law. Nonetheless, manufacturers paid millions (maybe billions) of dollars as a result of the suit.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[southcitymom]

Great article, cin! Thanks for posting the link. From the article:

San Francisco police Inspector Valerie Matthews said investigators had talked to Miller on Wednesday but haven't been able to substantiate yet her account of a fourth person with the victims at the zoo. Authorities have been unable to corroborate reports that the victims taunted the tigers, she said.

"I don't know if what they did was any more than what kindergartners do at the zoo every day," Matthews said.


Sounds to me like the police aren't really impressed with the level of taunting Ms. Miller is reporting.

The article also talks about Mollinedo's evasiveness about certain issues. Good read.

I'm still picking up a funny vibe.

I'm just going to keep following you around and saying ditto. You and I are very much of a like mind about this story so far.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm not sure we will ever know the truth,but I keep going back to the expert I heard this morning,and how something had to really get that tiger mad and essentially hunt down those guys.I don't know what kind of memory these animals have,but is it possable this was not the 1st time they visited the zoo and antagonized animals? Could they have done something previously and then some small provocation brought back a memory?

Hockeymom,

Did this expert talk about why the tiger attacked and pulled the arm off a person who was feeding it? Was the tiger really really mad that it was being fed?

 

[beakiebean]

Beakiebean: I am so happy to hear of your good zoo experiences. Sounds like the San Diego Zoo. They have a tortoise enclosure like you describe. That is the Mecca for zookeepers. I received my Communiqué which is the AZA member magazine and saw where a elephant killed a keeper at the Wild Animal Park and when I told my husband about it he said “So there is an opening at the Wild Animal Park?!”

It's actually the Blank Park Zoo in Des Moines, Iowa-lol-much smaller but just right for the kiddos-we can do the zoo in a couple hours or spend all day visiting the animals and listening to the keeper talks.

I have a cousin not far from San Diego and I'm dying to get out there and check out the zoo. Just have to coordinate the vacation schedules, the $'s, and my belief that the airplane is going to fall out of the sky before we make the trip.

Becca

 

[Buzz Mills]

Hockeymom,

Did this expert talk about why the tiger attacked and pulled the arm off a person who was feeding it? Was the tiger really really mad that it was being fed?

The feeder stuck their arm under the cage bars is what I heard. This was a wild animal. They redesigned the feeding area after the incident. The tiger was not considered responsible for the incident.

 

[Pharlap]

The feeder stuck their arm under the cage bars is what I heard. This was a wild animal. They redesigned the feeding area after the incident. The tiger was not considered responsible for the incident.

The feeder did not do what it was trained while feeding animals.
Not to go between the bars while feeding animals AT ALL.
Keep arms and whatever out of the cage.
WILD ANIMAL feeding.
Anything in or under or between the cage, bars is a meal.

Wish the police had tranquilizers.
Hope in the future police will have tanquilizers instead of live amno.
Not the tigers fault.
Doing what wild animals do, defend themselfs.