Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 2)

[RiverRat]

Here's who I feel sad for......Tony The Tiger.

"Tatiana, who was born in Denver on June 27, 2003, was brought to San Francisco as a companion for Tony, a 14-year-old Siberian tiger whose sibling and lifelong companion, Emily, died in late 2004 from cancer of the spleen.

Although they were standoffish at first, Tony and Tatiana started having physical contact without barriers in February, graduating to bouts of torrid sex."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/23/TIGER.TMP

Poor guy probably can't figure out where his girl went!

 

[southcitymom]

I think you are.

LOL! Thanks.

 

[southcitymom]

Here's who I feel sad for......Tony The Tiger.

"Tatiana, who was born in Denver on June 27, 2003, was brought to San Francisco as a companion for Tony, a 14-year-old Siberian tiger whose sibling and lifelong companion, Emily, died in late 2004 from cancer of the spleen.

Although they were standoffish at first, Tony and Tatiana started having physical contact without barriers in February, graduating to bouts of torrid sex."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/23/TIGER.TMP

Poor guy probably can't figure out where his girl went!

Poor poor Tony. I'll bet Tatiana was a tiger in the sack!

 

[hockeymom]

My point is - on the one hand we want to say that a tiger is a tiger and that wild animals are wild and unpredictable and that their attacks can mutilate and kill (which I agree with 100%) and on the other hand we want to say "That tiger only did what she did because she was cruelly provoked - it's obvious that something must have made her very very angry to have done this."

These two positions seem, IMHO, a little screwy. Yes - this tiger might have targeted these boys because they violently provoked her or this tiger might have targeted these boys because they were there and the tiger was in a tetchy mood that Christmas day.

That's my only point. I don't blame a tiger for being a tiger, but I'm also not willing to accept whole-cloth that a tiger has human-like feelings and responses. Might a tiger attack because of stupid human error coupled with the fact that it's a tiger - sure. But it also just might attack because it's a tiger and by it's very nature unpredictable.

I am repeating myself and don't know if I'm making any sense. I am surely interested in facts that might prove these boys were throwing things at the tiger. I just haven't seen any such evidence yet.

I understand what you are saying and yes you are making sense. I really would like to hear more from a "tiger" expert. Sounds like some cats attack without provocation,just because they are wild animals. i got the impression that tigers are more inclined to walk away from trouble unless they are protecting themselves,or their food.
I think if the cat had just been tranquilized,as opposed to shot,I'd feel a whole lot better.

 

[RiverRat]

Poor poor Tony. I'll bet Tatiana was a tiger in the sack!

I shouldn't laugh....

 

[Columbo]

I have a question.
This may sound dumb, but if the zoo can prove that the brothers were taunting and aggravating the tiger (throwing sticks and rocks at her, yelling, going into her enclosure, etc), but Mr. Sousa did not taunt the tiger, can they then say that the brothers were responsible to some extent for Mr. Sousa's and Tatiana's deaths ? Maybe they can cancel out the brothers' legal action if they counter sue in some way.

I know the brothers were hurt in the attack, but giving them any money would be like rewarding bad behavior. It just riles me to think that these two bums are going to benefit from their idiotic actions, when they don't seem to have any remorse for the murders they caused.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Poor poor Tony. I'll bet Tatiana was a tiger in the sack!

Only you scm; dirty mind, hehe

 

[Buzz Mills]

I have a question.
This may sound dumb, but if the zoo can prove that the brothers were taunting and aggravating the tiger (throwing sticks and rocks at her, yelling, going into her enclosure, etc), but Mr. Sousa did not taunt the tiger, can they then say that the brothers were responsible to some extent for Mr. Sousa's and Tatiana's deaths ? Maybe they can cancel out the brothers' legal action if they counter sue in some way.

I know the brothers were hurt in the attack, but giving them any money would be like rewarding bad behavior. It just riles me to think that these two bums are going to benefit from their idiotic actions, when they don't seem to have any remorse for the murders they caused.

Voluntary Manslaughter, Extreme Cruelty to Animals, and Tigerslaughter - lock 'em up. I would find them Guilty as charged.

 

[jilly]

I think if the cat had just been tranquilized,as opposed to shot,I'd feel a whole lot better.

Me too hockeymom!

 

[Buzz Mills]

Me too hockeymom!

Me three.

 

[ember]

Voluntary Manslaughter, Extreme Cruelty to Animals, and Tigerslaughter - lock 'em up. I would find them Guilty as charged.

Agreed Buzz!

If they were taunting them, then I have to think that Miss Tatiana just had enough. After years of being penned up, when your natural instinct is to roam, master and kill, it's no wonder she finally snapped....but at least she went out doing what she was born to do... for once.
In an odd way. I'm glad for her (sad for the death of the young man too) because she went out as she should have always been. I guess, to me, if you're going to pen or tie any kind of animal up, then you might as well shoot it because you've already killed its soul. I know zoos have educational value, but I always feel so sorry for the animals. My grandfather was a POW in WWII....he was the one who taught me to treat all living things with respect and let them be free because he knew first hand how it felt to have freedom taken from him.


btw, I love my fiesty Siamese kitty! Her name is Lucy and she's a hoot! Sneaky little attack cat, she is! Many an ankle has been attacked in this house! But never with claws. She's smart. She knows that hurts. Animals are such wonderful beings!

 

[LionRun]

From the video I watched and from videos and reports from knowledgeable wildlife biologists and behaviorists, those tigers are mentally healthy in those enclosures. In zoos where they have little room to move, no mental stimulation(finding their food, playscapes, pools, etc..) the animals were miserable and developed behaviors, such as pacing and rocking as a result.

The two types of zoos cannot even be compared. I have never had a big cat. But, I raised and rehabilitated wildlife for many years. Sometimes an animal cannot be released (i.e. a raccoon we kept who lost a leg to a steel jaw trap). These animals were content and behaved in a natural manner in enriched enclosures. And, they showed no behavioral signs that they were unhealthy in any way.

I would rather that there be native habitat for all wildlife, but I strongly believe in zoos who practice ethics in keeping their animals, educating the public, and breeding endangered species in captivity (with the hope that they can be feasibly released back into the wild). Much understand of and desire to preserve our wildlife and its habitat directly as a result from good folks who run quality zoos.

This zoo, however, dropped the ball, imo. But, that doesn't mean that all zoos are bad and that it is a terrible environment for wild animals. Circuses, on the other hand should go extinct immediately. I see no altruistic purpose for them, and the animals do not appear to have any assemblance of living a natural life in a natural habitat.

Lion

 

[txsvicki]

I think the zoo should also be sued for slander by all involved if it can be proven that they leaked any taunting rumors. They should also be fined for animal endangerment since keeping animals is their business and the fencing was way shorter than it should have been. I'll never believe that the tiger getting out was done on the first try after these years of being kept there or that no one ever saw her trying to get out before. In fact, I believe a woman did report that she had seen the tigers trying to scale the wall quite awhile back.

 

[ember]

From the video I watched and from videos and reports from knowledgeable wildlife biologists and behaviorists, those tigers are mentally healthy in those enclosures. In zoos where they have little room to move, no mental stimulation(finding their food, playscapes, pools, etc..) the animals were miserable and developed behaviors, such as pacing and rocking as a result.

The two types of zoos cannot even be compared. I have never had a big cat. But, I raised and rehabilitated wildlife for many years. Sometimes an animal cannot be released (i.e. a raccoon we kept who lost a leg to a steel jaw trap). These animals were content and behaved in a natural manner in enriched enclosures. And, they showed no behavioral signs that they were unhealthy in any way.

I would rather that there be native habitat for all wildlife, but I strongly believe in zoos who practice ethics in keeping their animals, educating the public, and breeding endangered species in captivity (with the hope that they can be feasibly released back into the wild). Much understand of and desire to preserve our wildlife and its habitat directly as a result from good folks who run quality zoos.

This zoo, however, dropped the ball, imo. But, that doesn't mean that all zoos are bad and that it is a terrible environment for wild animals. Circuses, on the other hand should go extinct immediately. I see no altruistic purpose for them, and the animals do not appear to have any assemblance of living a natural life in a natural habitat.

Lion

With all due respect to you LionRun, as I'm sure you are more knowledgeable than I on this subject...

While I'm sure the scientific studies mean well....humans have been deciding what makes other beings happy for a long time and they're not always right. I just have to wonder who ever asked the animal? I'm sure that nature didn't intend them to be caged even if the enclosure is like it's natural habitat albeit a fraction of the real thing. These animals were meant to roam, to take big long runs and to hunt. They need space. No human creation can even come close to the real thing. I'm sure the animals feel this. I bet they get the urge to run all of the time but a footbal field size just can't compare to safari. They are hunters, stalkers by nature but I've never seen a zoo keeper throw a live gazelle into the lion pen so that they can be who they are. It just seems cruel.

The animals always look so sad to me.


btw, I too think circus's are the scurge. One look into the elephant's eyes when it had to bear all of those screaming. squirming kids on it's back was enough for me to never, ever go again. That is not what she was meant for. More and more, I am embarrassed to be human.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

"San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom toured the zoo on Wednesday for the first time since the Christmas Day tiger mauling.
On Thursday he said he continues to support zoo officials- for now.
"We are reviewing everything that happened and I'm confident, at this stage, in the leadership of the zoo and very confident that everybody did everything they could to protect lives and follow protocols," Newsom said. "But that being said, we'll analyze those protocols and review them and improve them...and we will make sure that we're even more secure in the future."

The mayor "continues to support" the zoo director who blatently lied about the height of the fencing?

The mayor "is confident that everybody did everything they could to protect lives" when it a known fact that zoo employees would not open the door of the cafe to admit a screaming, bleeding person and that when zoo employees FINALLY called 911 they reported that they thought they were dealing with a crazy person?

I'll tell you who's crazy - a zoo employee who hears someone screaming about a tiger being loose and automatically assumes it is a hoax. A zoo director who keeps a tiger that has already attacked one human in an enclosure that doesn't meet industry standards. And a mayor who expresses confidence in these people!

slimy "disinformation campaign" being conducted

 

[Morag]

SF officials are desparately trying to avoid the truth of what happened: they didn't maintain a safe environment for their animals, nor for the visiting public. Even if the three victims were doing something outrageous- and there's not yet evidence that they were- the tiger should have been in an escape-proof enclosure. No matter what they did, the tiger should not have been able to get at them.

Since the problem of taunting seems to be acknowleged as a problem for zoos in general, why have not more wild animals attacked their tormentors? Could it be that they are behind 18 foot walls, and not just 12-13 foot ones? The SF Zoo is not a funky, scruffy little exhibit, and San Francisco is not a scruffy, poverty-stricken location. There was no excuse for the powers that be to have ignored the potential problem for so many years.

 

[scandi]

Here's who I feel sad for......Tony The Tiger.

"Tatiana, who was born in Denver on June 27, 2003, was brought to San Francisco as a companion for Tony, a 14-year-old Siberian tiger whose sibling and lifelong companion, Emily, died in late 2004 from cancer of the spleen.

Although they were standoffish at first, Tony and Tatiana started having physical contact without barriers in February, graduating to bouts of torrid sex."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/23/TIGER.TMP

Poor guy probably can't figure out where his girl went!

Too Good River

Even though I know the tiger did nothing wrong, have we heard any more about these guys using slingshots? I also heard a report on FOX TV News that they found a bloody shoe print behind the barrier where anyone from the public should have been. That was quite early on and I never heard it repeated on the news.

It might end up being an interesting court case, with the right lawyer, that is. #1 we know the Tiger did nothing wrong, #2 If the tiger was taunted by these 3 boys, or any of them, they will still have no guilt for responsibility, as #3 the zoo will have to bear the burden of guilt, as it is their responsibility to provide a safe environment for the public to view these wild animals. Period, right?

Somehow I'd like to see Horowitz be involved in this case. Wonder how he is doing these days. xox Scandi

 

[LinasK]

#2 If the tiger was taunted by these 3 boys, or any of them, they will still have no guilt for responsibility,

Scandi, I've read that the brothers Dhaliwal could still face charges. I hope they get them for manslaughter of Souza as well as DUI and harassment of animals- they have a witness to them taunting the lions.

 

[scandi]

Scandi, I've read that the brothers Dhaliwal could still face charges. I hope they get them for manslaughter of Souza as well as DUI and harassment of animals- they have a witness to them taunting the lions.

Hi Linask, I haven't heard about that yet, in fact it hasn't been on the news at all here today. Such changing stories with every report, I will be glad to see it settle down to what really happened. xox

PS: As you can tell I have heard several TH's giving their viewpoint, but I think it was before anything you are speaking of had come out.

 

[LinasK]

Hi Linask, I haven't heard about that yet, in fact it hasn't been on the news at all here today. Such changing stories with every report, I will be glad to see it settle down to what really happened. xox

PS: As you can tell I have heard several TH's giving their viewpoint, but I think it was before anything you are speaking of had come out.

It's a local story for me, as I'm less than an hour away from S.F.