TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #26

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  • #681
Well as near as I can figure, LE did not want the suspect to know that Clint was close to him in the garage/house. So they just published the very last part of the story where Clint saw them walking away. Now, I have to wonder what other parts of the story have been redacted or obscured, as even in its current version there are a Lot of holes... I wonder if Clint did not see more? Although if he saw the suspect in greater detail, I would assume that info would have been made public. Perhaps they were trying to see if Clint could recall more with hypnosis, etc.?

I don't know if you followed the story from day one, but original reports of what happened wrere much more like what came out in the JVM inverview than the edited, sanitized, corrected version that was held out for the last 3 months.

I did follow it from day 1 but don't recall CB witnessing the 2 people in the garage. I remember the "home invasion" statement which for some reason was either forgotten, debunked or put on the back burner. I also recall an updated version of the suspect's height and weight. Also, the neighour calling KB at work is new to me. I thought she called 911. Another discrepancy from the original story is LE said CB called 911 but that doesn't seem to be the case. He didn't call 911, right? If he didn't, what male called 911 that LE assumed was CB?
 
  • #682
I'm having a wonky moment. Has Clint - Clint himself, not a reporter or LE - ever said he did not hear screams? Atm, I don't recall him talking about screams at all.
 
  • #683
I did follow it from day 1 but don't recall CB witnessing the 2 people in the garage. I remember the "home invasion" statement which for some reason was either forgotten, debunked or put on the back burner. I also recall an updated version of the suspect's height and weight. Also, the neighour calling KB at work is new to me. I thought she called 911. Another discrepancy from the original story is LE said CB called 911 but that doesn't seem to be the case. He didn't call 911, right? If he didn't, what male called 911 that LE assumed was CB?

Ohhh its all so confusing. It hurts my blonde hairs
 
  • #684
I'm having a wonky moment. Has Clint - Clint himself, not a reporter or LE - ever said he did not hear screams? Atm, I don't recall him talking about screams at all.

No, afaik, Clint has not spoken of screams at all.
 
  • #685
I'm having a wonky moment. Has Clint - Clint himself, not a reporter or LE - ever said he did not hear screams? Atm, I don't recall him talking about screams at all.


Good point. I do not believe Clint has addressed the screams one way or another. I know JVM did not ask him about it the other night. He could have heard them and 1) was told not to say anything 2) hasn't said anything because no one asked

We assume he did not hear them but perhaps he did?
 
  • #686
Again unsubstantiated local belief, but dressed in Camo and of the same general discription of the now-updated perp who took Holly.
-------------
Can you please give me your personal assessment about the possibilities of this fugitive (that I've posted about before). Seems to match up with a lot of the traits, physical description of the abductor:

http://www.usmarshals.gov/investigations/most_wanted/hiers/poster.htm

Bumping this because I think you may be onto something. Perhaps the reason they're not saying much is because they do have a possible suspect and he could very well be a fugitive. Would it be less nerve wrecking for LE to continue to let the public believe the perp is a local with no connection to any other case or letting the public know that the perp could strike again, anywhere at any time?
 
  • #687
hmmmm.... maybe the screams DID come from inside the house - the converted living area - in a home invasion.

Why didn't Clint hear the screams, but the neighbor did?

Maybe he's a very sound sleeper. I developed a problem with my brain a few years ago, which in turn resulted in a form of narcolepsy, and I sleep through some REALLY loud things. There was an explosion not far from us, the whole neighborhood up and outside to watch the flames, etc etc, and I slept through the whole thing. I sleep through hellacious storms. I sleep through EVERYTHING lol.

If he was asleep, he may have heard the screams, but they sort of blended with his dreams, and when he came fully awake, what he more clearly heard was the dogs barking.

Or... maybe he did hear the screams, and just hasn't said so.

ETA: And maybe what was screamed was something identifying - like a name - "Help! So-and-so's got me!", and because it's identifying, LE has recommended he simply not talk about it, because it would put him in danger. hmmmm....
 
  • #688
Originally Posted by SNOWINMEMPHIS
Again unsubstantiated local belief, but dressed in Camo and of the same general discription of the now-updated perp who took Holly.
-------------
Can you please give me your personal assessment about the possibilities of this fugitive (that I've posted about before). Seems to match up with a lot of the traits, physical description of the abductor:

http://www.usmarshals.gov/investigations/most_wanted/hiers/poster.htm

Bumping this because I think you may be onto something. Perhaps the reason they're not saying much is because they do have a possible suspect and he could very well be a fugitive. Would it be less nerve wrecking for LE to continue to let the public believe the perp is a local with no connection to any other case or letting the public know that the perp could strike again, anywhere at any time?

Daniel William Hiers Jr. has been mentioned before, on Bobo threads #7 and #12.
 
  • #689
hmmmm.... maybe the screams DID come from inside the house - the converted living area - in a home invasion.

Why didn't Clint hear the screams, but Holly did?

Or... maybe he did hear the screams, and just hasn't said so.

You mean the Neighbor hearing them?

I assume if Holly screamed loud enough from inside that a neighbor a half a mile away (or whatever) it is heard it, that someone 40 feet away would have heard it. Heavy sleeper or not. If a dog woke up Clint a blood curdling ( as it was described?) scream would have.
 
  • #690
Good point. I do not believe Clint has addressed the screams one way or another. I know JVM did not ask him about it the other night. He could have heard them and 1) was told not to say anything 2) hasn't said anything because no one asked

We assume he did not hear them but perhaps he did?

I don't see why he would he leave that detail out? He went into great detail about the turkey and Holly walking side by side with the perp and believing the perp was Drew, If he heard screams, I would think there would be immediate panic on his part. Even when he saw the blood in the garage, he thought it was the turkey blood. :waitasec:
 
  • #691
I don't see why he would he leave that detail out? He went into great detail about the turkey and Holly walking side by side with the perp and believing the perp was Drew, If he heard screams, I would think there would be immediate panic on his part. Even when he saw the blood in the garage, he thought it was the turkey blood. :waitasec:

Who knows it took four months for that part of the story to come out. And the screams could have still been after Holly and the man walked off into the woods. Not in the house itself. its not like Clint is just oozing with free info. Most of what he has said has been sort of coaxed out of him bit by bit in a couple poorly done interviews.
 
  • #692
You mean the Neighbor hearing them?

I assume if Holly screamed loud enough from inside that a neighbor a half a mile away (or whatever) it is heard it, that someone 40 feet away would have heard it. Heavy sleeper or not. If a dog woke up Clint a blood curdling ( as it was described?) scream would have.

I'm talking about Clint hearing or not hearing the screams.

I don't remember the screams described at all. Or even how many. One short, low scream. A series of loud and long screams. Words screamed. "Help me!" or "He's killing me!" or "Leave me alone, you SOB!". Mindless screaming. Screams of terror. Screams of pain.

ETA: And perhaps Holly wasn't the only one screaming or yelling. Maybe the perp was yelling back at her, and Clint recognized the voice, and has been advised by LE not to talk about it out of the danger of doing so.
 
  • #693
Its silly we are arguing over semantics of what constitutes North in a general, fairly vague, mostly theoretical discussion.

Clint said they went North. So I said they went North... I don't know what the big deal with that is, honestly? If you want to think they went South, or West or East North East then thats ok too. Perhaps you can provide us with a good map, property survey, etc. that has better directions to go on?

:banghead:

BBM:
I'm not sure what this means. :waitasec:
I don't WANT to think anything.
I was trying to clarify the direction of travel that Holly and her abductor may have taken.

From a SAR standpoint, it is critically important to know very specifically which direction Holly and her abductor may have taken. Any and all information about this is useful.

Mileage, timing, access to roads.... it is all very important.
I don't want to argue over semantics either- but I guess I don't understand why folks are debating the value of this information.
 
  • #694
In Tennessee, there is alleged to be a law making it okay for police to withhold evidence in an ongoing case from family members, who are also victims - in this case, of a missing daughter and sister.

When my child was murdered we were never given any information and did not find out much of the things until trial. We were not even allowed to see the autopsy or speak with the medical examiner. The Prosecutor kept saying that they did not want to risk the case.
 
  • #695
I'm talking about Clint hearing or not hearing the screams.

I don't remember the screams described at all. Or even how many. One short, low scream. A series of loud and long screams. Words screamed. "Help me!" or "He's killing me!" or "Leave me alone, you SOB!". Mindless screaming. Screams of terror. Screams of pain.

ETA: And perhaps Holly wasn't the only one screaming or yelling. Maybe the perp was yelling back at her, and Clint recognized the voice, and has advised not to talk about it out of the danger of doing so.

from your first post

"Why didn't Clint hear the screams, but Holly did?"

I didnt know Holly heard any screams. I thought she was screaming. Or it is assumed she screamed. Thats why I asked if you meant why didn't clint hear but the neighbor did?
 
  • #696
BBM:
I'm not sure what this means. :waitasec:
I don't WANT to think anything.
I was trying to clarify the direction of travel that Holly and her abductor may have taken.

From a SAR standpoint, it is critically important to know very specifically which direction Holly and her abductor may have taken. Any and all information about this is useful.

Mileage, timing, access to roads.... it is all very important.
I don't want to argue over semantics either- but I guess I don't understand why folks are debating the value of this information.


Ok my only use of the word NORTH is in reference to the direction Clint saw them walking through in the back yard... where they went after Clint lost sight of them, who knows.

I never said directions were not important. Not at all. I just dont know why you are picking on me for using the word NORTH that Clint used. I am not talking about mileage, roads, etc. I am talking about two people walking past a window in a said direction. That all.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
  • #697
ETA: Sorry Carla and BeanE: in the time it took me to draft this post, looks like you both have addressed most points upthread...:great:

Not sure it assists the sluething process to reword and/or put into a logical sequence the statements of a witness. Imo, it is no longer the witness's account at that point, it becomes our interpretation of it. I think the witness's own words and clarity (or lack thereof) need to be taken "as is" to preserve their integrity and value, for the Bobo case and any other. JMO. I say this because I am so confused about the statements released thus far that I found myself trying to make them fit into a scenario that I think makes sense, but realizing it's a scenario built on a house of cards...

Imo, we should be able to get a clear account of what should be a fairly simple chain of events which remains fundamentally consistent with time (from any adult witness). If that isn't the case, something is wrong with the reliability of the witness imo. It doesn't mean the witness is lying or doing something wrong (although that's always a possibility), but for some reason the witness is unreliable. I don't think it's the investigators' fault, the media's fault, or even necessarily the witness's fault. Some degree of inconsistency is always present between reporting sources early on, but the fundamental account of what happened should be fairly stagnant each time the same witness describes it, "this is what happened...", imo. Is Clint Bobo an unreliable witness? I don't know. He is certainly not a strong linear communicator, imo. I'm going to use his statements from JVM as a baseline. If the fundamental details of his story change from here on out, he will not be a reliable witness imo. For now, I am considering him a reliable witness.

I listened to the JVM interview. CB was clearly asked by JVM to confirm if the garage location, where he said he first heard voices and saw sihlouetts kneeling over what he presumed was a turkey, was attached to the house. He definitively said "yes". However, later he said that the sihlouttes and voices "were outside the house, inside the garage". I wish he would have simply provided more detail; JVM was clearly signaling that she was trying grasp the mental picture before she finally had to move on.

So, in his own words, Clint considers the inside of the attached garage as outside of the house. I do not know if the carport is in any way attached to the house and whether the "garage" and "carport" are different areas or if they are one and the same (and have just been referenced differently). Arghh. In either case, if the "garage" and "carport" are both attached to the house and Clint made the same statement to LE that he made to JVM, perhaps that explains why this case was initially deemed an attempted home invasion. Who knows?

Things I didn't know before the JVM interview:
- there was blood found in an area attached to the house/garage (Clint)
- the family has been told that blood found at the scene is definitely that of Holly (Dana)
- Clint was in close enought proximity to (presumably) Holly and a man to hear voices, but only saw sihlouetts initially (Clint)
- 2 sihlouettes were kneeling around what he thought was a turkey in the attached garage; he originally assumed the turkey was the source of the blood (Clint)

Things I don't know since the JVM interview:
- why did Clint call Karen since he claimed he quickly came to believe the voices and sihlouettes were those of Holly and Drew?
-where does the neighbor hearing a scream fit into the sequence of events and communication?
-did either Clint or Karen call Holly's cell phone right away? I would expect that to be their first course of action, yet neither of them mention Holly when they discuss the phone calls made that morning.
-was there blood in the attached garage and in the carport (assuming they are different areas)?
-did Clint indeed find a turned over coke can and where?
-did Karen and/or Clint contact Dana to inquire about Holly before calling 911?

I am admittedly stumped about what happened to Holly and just hope she is out there alive and found soon. If she's not alive, may she rest in peace and may her body be recovered soon.
 
  • #698
ETA: And perhaps Holly wasn't the only one screaming or yelling. Maybe the perp was yelling back at her, and Clint recognized the voice, and has advised not to talk about it out of the danger of doing so.
snipperoo


Yes, the question of the scream, magnified by its utter absence in media interviews,
might be one of those things the lawyer has put off-base.
 
  • #699
snipperoo


Yes, the question of the scream, magnified by its utter absence in media interviews,
might be one of those things the lawyer has put off-base.

Was it confirmed they have a lawyer? I must've missed it. TIA
 
  • #700
Was it confirmed they have a lawyer? I must've missed it. TIA

Good question. Um, possibly......not! One of those things one assumes, I guess. I'd have one.
 
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