TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

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  • #721
I respect all opinions because each has value. However, I'm not sure I believe that a fugitive could take on a new identity in a small town and make that work. I live in a town of 5500 city residents with thousands more living on the "outskirts." I have lived here 10 years. The first time my family visited the town, we stopped in a local restaurant to eat. When we entered the front door, every head turned to stare us down. "So," the waitress eventually asked, "where are ya'll from...and what brings you here?" Within days, everyone knew my momma and daddy (and I'm a grown woman with kids, by the way) and where they lived. They knew what kind of work we did....and they even knew what cars we drove. And this was before we even moved in. Crazy? Yes. Comforting? Yes.

I understand and appreciate the point of view, shefner.

We have lived in- and still frequent for training purposes- our property that is very similar to the Bobo's. (Town itself of about 2800- out lying areas, who knows the population?!)

If we come in to the Waffle House on a Sunday morning for a cup of coffee, it's kind of interesting. Someone might say "hey, ya'll", but that's about it. Because we're there enough to both fit in as 'locals' AND 'outsiders'- but we're neither. Kwim?
 
  • #722
I respect all opinions because each has value. However, I'm not sure I believe that a fugitive could take on a new identity in a small town and make that work. I live in a town of 5500 city residents with thousands more living on the "outskirts." I have lived here 10 years. The first time my family visited the town, we stopped in a local restaurant to eat. When we entered the front door, every head turned to stare us down. "So," the waitress eventually asked, "where are ya'll from...and what brings you here?" Within days, everyone knew my momma and daddy (and I'm a grown woman with kids, by the way) and where they lived. They knew what kind of work we did....and they even knew what cars we drove. And this was before we even moved in. Crazy? Yes. Comforting? Yes.

I understand what you mean. It's probably a lot riskier to hide out in a small town where everybody knows your name than it is in a big city.

With that said, I remember one episode on 48 hours where one guy murdered his wife and kids and took off. He ended up working as a handyman (they even gave him a room inside their home )for a family in another State. They had no idea he was a fugitive until one of the older couple's sons became suspicious. Sorry I don't recall the murderer's name offhand. So, it does happen.
 
  • #723
  • #724
Ok, so maybe I am being forgetful but do we know what exactly Holly did the day/night before this happened? I was thinking today how it would be weird for someone who had been watching the house to kidnap her when Clint was inside...surely, if someone had been watching the house they would know what Clint drives, or would have seen him enter the home.

Bear with me here, this is kind of me just thinking out loud :)

Now if someone saw her the night before and followed her home(assuming clint was already home and Holly arrived after him) then saw the mother/father leave in the morning, they might have assumed she was alone, and that they were in the clear to abduct her. This would most likely be someone not very familiar with the Bobo's and the fact that their son was at home, or someone who was familiar enough with them to know that Clint should not have been there that morning(it has been determined that he wasn't suppose to be there, correct?).
 
  • #725
BBM:
I think 'Clint's 3 month silence' was due to silence from the media. I do not believe Clint was silent to LE for the first three months.

Does that help explain?

And by turn everything on its' back, I meant that it is a very good investigative tool to use when stuck in a certain mindset. Flip the turtle back over and put it on its' feet. See which direction it walks.

IMO, Holly's case has been completely myopic from the get go, on many different levels.
It's not helping to find her- so let's try something new.

Make sense?

That reminds me of something one of my graduate school professors used to teach us (in training to be a mental health counselor): "Always be curious." What she meant by that is, if I (for example) make an ASSUMPTION I know how to interpret something (i.e., a client tells me they are feeling "depressed"--if I assume I know what "depressed" means to the CLIENT, I've missed the boat completely because it is still the definition made through my own view of the world.

How this may relate to HB's case is that if we try to start looking at things as Clint, Karen, Drew, etc. sees things, rather than through our own personal interpretations of what things might mean, we can gain a different perspective. Hope that makes sense. If not, chalk it up to JMO!!:blushing:
 
  • #726
Ok, so maybe I am being forgetful but do we know what exactly Holly did the day/night before this happened? I was thinking today how it would be weird for someone who had been watching the house to kidnap her when Clint was inside...surely, if someone had been watching the house they would know what Clint drives, or would have seen him enter the home.

Bear with me here, this is kind of me just thinking out loud :)

Now if someone saw her the night before and followed her home(assuming clint was already home and Holly arrived after him) then saw the mother/father leave in the morning, they might have assumed she was alone, and that they were in the clear to abduct her. This would most likely be someone not very familiar with the Bobo's and the fact that their son was at home, or someone who was familiar enough with them to know that Clint should not have been there that morning(it has been determined that he wasn't suppose to be there, correct?).

I have always thought it is at least possible that she was followed home the night before and he waited for her, if a stranger/stalker. We don't know anything about the day before, what any of the family did, etc...as far as I know. A stranger might have been able to engage her in conversation for a few minutes, as apparently happened, if he had planned out a ruse of some kind. Of course, nothing explains the injury/blood from Holly and then the seemingly casual walking away, unless of course he had a gun.
 
  • #727
My opinions only, no facts here:

This is my updated time-line for the morning that Holly Bobo disappeared, including more recent newspaper reports. IT IS NOT OFFICIAL! Before reading this, note that Holly’s brother apparently did not know that Holly’s boyfriend was across the county hunting turkey that morning. I have tried to avoid interpretation, except where exact times or event sequences must be deduced from the newspaper reports. Some of the events may be simultaneous. In this updated time-line, I have included a few personal comments, clearly distinguished.

4:30 AM (Holly awoke and was in bedroom studying, witnesses unknown)
5:30-5:35 (Holly still in bedroom, witness is father)
5:30-5:35 (Holly’s father leaves for work, witness is himself)
6:30-7:00 (Holly in bedroom and at breakfast table and mother makes a lunch for Holly, witness is mother)
7:00-ish (Holly’s mother leaves for work, witness is herself)
7:00-ish (Holly talking on phone with college girlfriend, witness is girlfriend)
7:30-ish (Holly talked with boyfriend on phone about him being accused of trespassing on her grandmother’s property across the county that morning while turkey hunting, witness is boyfriend)
7:30-ish (a flurry of calls between Holly/Holly’s boyfriend and Holly’s mother about the mistaken trespassing incident, witnesses are boyfriend and mother)
7:30-7:35 (Holly talked with mother on phone, witness is mother)
7:40-ish (Holly going outside to car-possibly 5 minutes earlier than usual so as to not miss a college exam, no witnesses)
7:40 (someone screamed at Holly’s house, male witness to scream is nearest neighbor to Holly’s house)
7:40-ish (male neighbor tells his own mother who also lives with him about hearing the scream)
7:40-ish (male neighbor’s mother calls Holly’s mother at work about the scream, witness is secretary who relays info to mother)
****note that earlier newspaper accounts may indicate a 7:30 time for the scream AND that the neighbors called 911 at this same time, curiously the 7:30 time for a 911 call was supposedly mentioned by an official; it seems that this is now corrected to 7:40- but did someone call 911 before Holly’s mother?****
7:50 (Holly’s brother wakes up because their 'house dog' is barking, witness is himself; note that I have previously suggested that he may have awakened as early as 7:40 to 7:45 because this allows enough time for all of the following incidents to occur)
7:50-ish (looking out the window Holly’s brother notices Holly’s car is still there and sees the silhouettes of two people kneeled down by the car, he also hears voices of two people, witness is himself)
7:50ish- (Holly’s brother calls his mother but gets no answer because mother’s phone is not with her, witnesses are himself and secretary)
7:50-ish (mother gets message from secretary and calls son/Holly’s brother who tells his mother about Holly’s car still being there and the two people he saw, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (the alarmed mother calls 911 but is not satisfied that she talked to the right office, witness is Henderson County dispatch)
7:50-ish (Holly is seen being led into woods by a man, witness is brother)
7:50-ish (mother calls son again and son says Holly is walking into woods with a man he thinks is her boyfriend-mother says it cannot be her boyfriend and to call 911 and go outside with a gun and follow them, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (mother calls 911 again, witness is Decatur County dispatch)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly’s boyfriend but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother gets a pistol and walks out of house and notices blood and a spilled can of soda by Holly’s car, witness is himself)
8:00 (neighbor woman pulls up to Holly’s house and reports the scream her son heard to Holly’s brother, neighbor woman and Holly’s brother are witnesses for each other)
8:00-ish: (brother calls 911 as he hears sirens, witness is presumably the dispatcher- note that this call may have been at 7:59 based on a supposed official comment)
8:00-ish (first police car arrives “just after 8 o’clock”)
8:00-ish (the immediate woods where Holly was last seen were searched by up to three officers; this is both indicated and contradicted by these two statements: “Decatur County Sheriff Roy Wyatt said as soon as deputies arrived, they took a statement from Clint and began searching where Holly was last seen” AND “Wyatt said deputies did not want to enter the area or allow others to do so for fear that they would impair some evidence that might be found and because they were waiting on a search dog and trying to gather information leading them to go a certain direction.”)
later than 8:15: (the State Patrol brought in a search dog or dogs; it is implied that this was the same day that Holly disappeared)

Remember that much of this is based upon various news accounts and that can explain seeming discrepancies. What is interesting is that there are some accounts that the first 911 call could have come from the neighbor, prior to the first call to 911 from Holly’s mother. However, I suggest that this reflects garbled early news accounts. IF the State Patrol dogs were used and IF they were used the same day Holly disappeared, I believe they could track her. I will repeat myself from earlier posts- what the dogs “saw” is key to understanding this case. One other point of interest- if I called someone on every occasion that I heard a shriek or scream, the phone lines would be tied up half of the time. I think that this was a particularly blood-curdling and loud scream that the neighbors KNEW immediately was important.

And I will bring this up for the 3rd time- DNA (skin cells?) may well have been recovered from the tossed items. If this DNA is not in the nationwide database, the officials may be waiting for possible passage and implementation of the familial DNA bill in Tennessee, during Jan. 2012. Familial DNA is the best investigative tool of them all- it practically ruins life for the criminals. But the underlying constitutional issues are touchy and any bill must be well-crafted to satisfy constitutional demands.
 
  • #728
My opinions only, no facts here:

This is my updated time-line for the morning that Holly Bobo disappeared, including more recent newspaper reports. IT IS NOT OFFICIAL! Before reading this, note that Holly’s brother apparently did not know that Holly’s boyfriend was across the county hunting turkey that morning. I have tried to avoid interpretation, except where exact times or event sequences must be deduced from the newspaper reports. Some of the events may be simultaneous. In this updated time-line, I have included a few personal comments, clearly distinguished.

4:30 AM (Holly awoke and was in bedroom studying, witnesses unknown)
5:30-5:35 (Holly still in bedroom, witness is father)
5:30-5:35 (Holly’s father leaves for work, witness is himself)
6:30-7:00 (Holly in bedroom and at breakfast table and mother makes a lunch for Holly, witness is mother)
7:00-ish (Holly’s mother leaves for work, witness is herself)
7:00-ish (Holly talking on phone with college girlfriend, witness is girlfriend)
7:30-ish (Holly talked with boyfriend on phone about him being accused of trespassing on her grandmother’s property across the county that morning while turkey hunting, witness is boyfriend)
7:30-ish (a flurry of calls between Holly/Holly’s boyfriend and Holly’s mother about the mistaken trespassing incident, witnesses are boyfriend and mother)
7:30-7:35 (Holly talked with mother on phone, witness is mother)
7:40-ish (Holly going outside to car-possibly 5 minutes earlier than usual so as to not miss a college exam, no witnesses)
7:40 (someone screamed at Holly’s house, male witness to scream is nearest neighbor to Holly’s house)
7:40-ish (male neighbor tells his own mother who also lives with him about hearing the scream)
7:40-ish (male neighbor’s mother calls Holly’s mother at work about the scream, witness is secretary who relays info to mother)
****note that earlier newspaper accounts may indicate a 7:30 time for the scream AND that the neighbors called 911 at this same time, curiously the 7:30 time for a 911 call was supposedly mentioned by an official; it seems that this is now corrected to 7:40- but did someone call 911 before Holly’s mother?****
7:50 (Holly’s brother wakes up because their 'house dog' is barking, witness is himself; note that I have previously suggested that he may have awakened as early as 7:40 to 7:45 because this allows enough time for all of the following incidents to occur)
7:50-ish (looking out the window Holly’s brother notices Holly’s car is still there and sees the silhouettes of two people kneeled down by the car, he also hears voices of two people, witness is himself)
7:50ish- (Holly’s brother calls his mother but gets no answer because mother’s phone is not with her, witnesses are himself and secretary)
7:50-ish (mother gets message from secretary and calls son/Holly’s brother who tells his mother about Holly’s car still being there and the two people he saw, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (the alarmed mother calls 911 but is not satisfied that she talked to the right office, witness is Henderson County dispatch)
7:50-ish (Holly is seen being led into woods by a man, witness is brother)
7:50-ish (mother calls son again and son says Holly is walking into woods with a man he thinks is her boyfriend-mother says it cannot be her boyfriend and to call 911 and go outside with a gun and follow them, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (mother calls 911 again, witness is Decatur County dispatch)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly’s boyfriend but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother gets a pistol and walks out of house and notices blood and a spilled can of soda by Holly’s car, witness is himself)
8:00 (neighbor woman pulls up to Holly’s house and reports the scream her son heard to Holly’s brother, neighbor woman and Holly’s brother are witnesses for each other)
8:00-ish: (brother calls 911 as he hears sirens, witness is presumably the dispatcher- note that this call may have been at 7:59 based on a supposed official comment)
8:00-ish (first police car arrives “just after 8 o’clock”)
8:00-ish (the immediate woods where Holly was last seen were searched by up to three officers; this is both indicated and contradicted by these two statements: “Decatur County Sheriff Roy Wyatt said as soon as deputies arrived, they took a statement from Clint and began searching where Holly was last seen” AND “Wyatt said deputies did not want to enter the area or allow others to do so for fear that they would impair some evidence that might be found and because they were waiting on a search dog and trying to gather information leading them to go a certain direction.”)
later than 8:15: (the State Patrol brought in a search dog or dogs; it is implied that this was the same day that Holly disappeared)

Remember that much of this is based upon various news accounts and that can explain seeming discrepancies. What is interesting is that there are some accounts that the first 911 call could have come from the neighbor, prior to the first call to 911 from Holly’s mother. However, I suggest that this reflects garbled early news accounts. IF the State Patrol dogs were used and IF they were used the same day Holly disappeared, I believe they could track her. I will repeat myself from earlier posts- what the dogs “saw” is key to understanding this case. One other point of interest- if I called someone on every occasion that I heard a shriek or scream, the phone lines would be tied up half of the time. I think that this was a particularly blood-curdling and loud scream that the neighbors KNEW immediately was important.

And I will bring this up for the 3rd time- DNA (skin cells?) may well have been recovered from the tossed items. If this DNA is not in the nationwide database, the officials may be waiting for possible passage and implementation of the familial DNA bill in Tennessee, during Jan. 2012. Familial DNA is the best investigative tool of them all- it practically ruins life for the criminals. But the underlying constitutional issues are touchy and any bill must be well-crafted to satisfy constitutional demands.


BBM

Thanks for all your hard work in putting this timeline together.:woohoo: What a great job. Do you think the Familial DNA will implicate someone close to home or do you think an 'IDI' and one of the intruder's family members is listed in the DNA database? Just being curious here.

JMHO, MOO, etc.
 
  • #729
  • #730
YES, YES, YES! Then they took it back. But I do believe the initial reports had some basis in fact.

I wondered about that... I swear one of the very very very first little news tidbits also said that Clint had a gun and went out after the suspect. Of course this quickly was recanted or dropped from the story and the whole sequence of events started to get streamlined and mucked up.
 
  • #731
I wondered about that... I swear one of the very very very first little news tidbits also said that Clint had a gun and went out after the suspect. Of course this quickly was recanted or dropped from the story and the whole sequence of events started to get streamlined and mucked up.

The latest version does place Clint with a gun but no mention of whether or not he went out after the suspect.

I'm having computer trouble....so posting link for others to read

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111009/NEWS25/110090330
 
  • #732
The latest version does place Clint with a gun but no mention of whether or not he went out after the suspect.

I'm having computer trouble....so posting link for others to read

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111009/NEWS25/110090330

Thanks So Much!!! Excellent and well put together narrative of the events of that morning.

One thing that I still struggle with..The location of the "Garages" located at the home...One is easily recognized a slight distance from the house (as per Google Earth Pics)

Here is the Quote from the article:

""Clint got a loaded pistol, walked out of the back door and went through an open garage attached to the house. That's when he saw a puddle of blood near Holly's car.""

I still can not get a mental picture where this "open garage attached to the house" is actually located...this simple fact is important to me..

Is it visible through windows in the house?

Is there a doorway from the inside of the house that leads into this "Open Garage?"

How many vehicles can park there?

Whose cars are usually parked there? Maybe the Girls..Holly and Karen???

Is the unattached garage where the Guys Park? Clint and Dana??

Questions...Questions..Questions..???????????????

Will we ever get Answers....Aswers...Answers??????????????

Dear God...Please Send Holly Home to Those That Love and Care For Her!!
 
  • #733
Thanks So Much!!! Excellent and well put together narrative of the events of that morning.

One thing that I still struggle with..The location of the "Garages" located at the home...One is easily recognized a slight distance from the house (as per Google Earth Pics)

Here is the Quote from the article:

""Clint got a loaded pistol, walked out of the back door and went through an open garage attached to the house. That's when he saw a puddle of blood near Holly's car.""

I still can not get a mental picture where this "open garage attached to the house" is actually located...this simple fact is important to me..

Is it visible through windows in the house?

Is there a doorway from the inside of the house that leads into this "Open Garage?"

How many vehicles can park there?

Whose cars are usually parked there? Maybe the Girls..Holly and Karen???

Is the inattached garage where the Guys Park? Clint and Dana??

Questions...Questions..Questions..???????????????

Will we ever get Answers....Aswers...Answers??????????????

Dear God...Please Send Holly Home to Those That Love and Care For Her!!


Maybe our friend Carla will draw us a sketch. She made one up a while ago but am not sure if it was revised to reflect the latest version.

Carla!!! We need you. :great:
 
  • #734
Respectfully snipped for space:
I will bring this up for the 3rd time- DNA (skin cells?) may well have been recovered from the tossed items. If this DNA is not in the nationwide database, the officials may be waiting for possible passage and implementation of the familial DNA bill in Tennessee, during Jan. 2012. Familial DNA is the best investigative tool of them all- it practically ruins life for the criminals. But the underlying constitutional issues are touchy and any bill must be well-crafted to satisfy constitutional demands.

For further information, here’s an interesting article on Familial DNA:

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/07/scientists-explain-how-familial.html
“Sims and Myers explained that the lab's software uses this information to generate a ranked list of the convicted felons in the DNA database who are most likely to be first-order relatives—parents, children, or full siblings—of the person a DNA sample came from. (The statistics aren't strong enough to identify more distant relatives, they say.) When both individuals in question are male, the lab also looks at a similar number of short tandem repeats on the Y chromosome, which should be an exact match between fathers and sons and between full brothers.”
 
  • #735
Respectfully snipped for space:


For further information, here’s an interesting article on Familial DNA:

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/07/scientists-explain-how-familial.html
“Sims and Myers explained that the lab's software uses this information to generate a ranked list of the convicted felons in the DNA database who are most likely to be first-order relatives—parents, children, or full siblings—of the person a DNA sample came from. (The statistics aren't strong enough to identify more distant relatives, they say.) When both individuals in question are male, the lab also looks at a similar number of short tandem repeats on the Y chromosome, which should be an exact match between fathers and sons and between full brothers.”

So if the person is a first time offender, there is no way get a match, right? They have to have been convicted. How would this help with the investigation as some have suggested? I'm very curious.
 
  • #736
So if the person is a first time offender, there is no way get a match, right? They have to have been convicted. How would this help with the investigation as some have suggested? I'm very curious.

If I’m understanding this correctly (and anyone else can jump in at anytime here), if a suspect has left behind some of his DNA at a crime scene and his DNA is not in the national database – it could be compared against the database for familial DNA (the law permitting of course). So, to answer your question ~nt~, it seems that a close family member’s DNA must be in the database (which would be the result of a conviction at some time or another) for a familial match to occur.
 
  • #737
  • #738
  • #739
We are not linking to twitter that is not msm or sleuthing people not named persons of interest.

thank you.
 
  • #740
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