trial thread: 3/22/2012

[~n/t~]

Proposal? I need to read back a bit.

Yeah he put a ring on her finger in some pawn shop and said this could be yours one day or something like that.

 

[dilbert]

Tara admitted to the drug debt (JG's debt). She said it was $400.00, IIRC.

I still fail to see what relevance any of this questioning has to do with this case and MR's defense. TM could've been a prostitute (she's not), or JG could've been a john (not) or they could've been with the Italian mafia (not). What in God's name does any of it have to do with Tori being murdered ? Seriously.

Yes it might be interesting for some but to me, it's becoming so frustrating. Let's get to what this is about, please! Enough of the back and forth with TLM.

She's a liar and a child murderer. We know. The Judge knows. The Jury knows. The entire freakin world knows.

Sorry, I'm getting really ullhair::bigfight:

I believe Derstine is trying to establish that TLM knew that Tori was TM's child and that she killed her out of revenge for a drug debt, or, when TM said she didn't want to breed her dog with theirs, TLM considered that a snub or diss against her and her mother. (TM testified that CM called her and JG and was quite upset that they didn't want to breed their dogs)
In the letters that TLM wrote she mentioned that she didn't like it when people said things about her family that she considered disrespectful.
The defence has also established that TLM is vengeful and wrote at great length at what she'd do to people that wronged her, she even said she'd hurt innocent people connected to those that wronged her.

TLM targets Tori out of revenge against TM and JG because they didn't want to breed dogs with hers = reasonable doubt

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

Wow, you said in your previous post that you think TLM is irrelevant to this case!!

:waitasec:

 

[captaincanada]

Well I believe it is relevant as Derstine might be insinuating that TLM may have known Tori for longer than TLM is saying... how has not been established yet.

This is what I got from today's questioning. It looks as though the defence could be trying to point to TLM insinuating she targeted Tori for something in particular. At least that is where it seemed to be going.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

This is what I got from today's questioning. It looks as though the defence could be trying to point to TLM insinuating she targeted Tori for something in particular. At least that is where it seemed to be going.

That's exactly what I said in a earlier post. That's why i think the questioning is relevant. I have to clarify that I believe he is saying TLM had known Tori longer than TLM is saying. As to her motive for taking Tori, I'm still not sure.

 

[roseofsharon]

Tara admitted to the drug debt (JG's debt). She said it was $400.00, IIRC.

I still fail to see what relevance any of this questioning has to do with this case and MR's defense. TM could've been a prostitute (she's not), or JG could've been a john (not) or they could've been with the Italian mafia (not). What in God's name does any of it have to do with Tori being murdered ? Seriously.

Yes it might be interesting for some but to me, it's becoming so frustrating. Let's get to what this is about, please! Enough of the back and forth with TLM.

She's a liar and a child murderer. We know. The Judge knows. The Jury knows. The entire freakin world knows.

Sorry, I'm getting really ullhair::bigfight:

I think the defense might be suggesting that TLM/CM and TM/JG knew each other very well and that the murder of TS was a payback for debts unpaid -- maybe owed to CM. Just MOO.:moo:

 

[~n/t~]

I believe Derstine is trying to establish that TLM knew that Tori was TM's child and that she killed her out of revenge for a drug debt, or, when TM said she didn't want to breed her dog with theirs, TLM considered that a snub or diss against her and her mother. (TM testified that CM called her and JG and was quite upset that they didn't want to breed their dogs)
In the letters that TLM wrote she mentioned that she didn't like it when people said things about her family that she considered disrespectful.
The defence has also established that TLM is vengeful and wrote at great length at what she'd do to people that wronged her, she even said she'd hurt innocent people connected to those that wronged her.

TLM targets Tori out of revenge against TM and JG because they didn't want to breed dogs with hers = reasonable doubt
MOO

bbm....reasonable doubt? For TLM? She plead guilty. She's not on trial. I honestly don't see what that has anything to do with this trial.

Like I said earlier, TLM could've been Tori's teacher. Why does it matter in MR's trial? How much longer do we have to listen to TLM say the same thing over and over. She's a liar. That was established already. Let's get to the forensics. This is getting past due.

 

[dilbert]

I'm sure if the lengthy cross examination of TLM was irrelevant the judge would have stopped it long ago.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

I think the defense might be suggesting that TLM/CM and TM/JG knew each other very well and that the murder of TS was a payback for debts unpaid -- maybe owed to CM. Just MOO.:moo:

And? She admitted she murdered Tori.

 

[ChaChaCha]

Why does it matter? She could've been Tori's school teacher for all I care. Curious as to why it matters in your opinion.

It matters because this is a trial, and this is the defence theory - that TLM was mildly vindictive towards TM and JG and as she testified earlier, when she was angry with someone she would have no problem taking it out on members of their family. The defence is entitled and obliged to defend allegations made by the Crown - in this case by TLM as his accuser - not to prove his innocence but to instill reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors who have not been privy to the insider gossip and are presumably ignorant of the facts of the case - and have not yet formed an opinion on MR's guilt or innocence. Nor should they form their opinions until both sides have had an opportunity to examine, cross examine and present their evidence and arguments.

I know it must be frustrating and seem repetitive, but the lawyers have carefully formulated their plan - the questions and the order in which they are given are not random - one answer plays off another like a huge puzzle. I doubt the jurors are bored, since this is all new information to them.

Anyways, it is MR's trial and his lawyers are entitled to spend as much time as may be reasonably necessary on whichever part of the evidence/story as they decide. Slow, but then you have heard the old addage - The Wheels of Justice Move Slowly ... the courts do not rush to judgement lol.

 

[dilbert]

bbm....reasonable doubt? For TLM? She plead guilty. She's not on trial. I honestly don't see what that has anything to do with this trial.

Like I said earlier, TLM could've been Tori's teacher. Why does it matter in MR's trial? How much longer do we have to listen to TLM say the same thing over and over. She's a liar. That was established already. Let's get to the forensics. This is getting past due.

Reasonable doubt that MR was the initiator of this crime or was even involved at all.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

I'm sure if the lengthy cross examination of TLM was irrelevant the judge would have stopped it long ago.

MOO

LOL....I'm not so sure. Maybe he dosed off a few times...like me! Does the jury really care if TLM was listening to music on her IPOD. Really?

 

[roseofsharon]

TM said that neither her or JG knew who MR was, had never met him, in the press conference she did after the arrests were made.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/CanadaAM/20090522/090522_missing_girl/

Yet, I do remember a presser in which she said their names "Michael and Terry-Lynn" and my first thought was .... :waitasec: - ohhhh? she must know them, but I was wrong back then, it just sounded that way I guess.
IMO

 

[~n/t~]

Again, it doesn't matter who initiated it or who gave the blows to Tori's little head. If he was there, he's guilty. Period.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Really? I'm fed up with TLM on the stand, frankly. It's repetitive, it's boring and it's totally irrelevant to this case, imo.

Let's focus on why we're here, JUDGE! Please!!!

IMO, she is the most relevant witness the Crown likely has, as she is the one that pointed the finger at MTR. She was there, who better to give an account of the timeline of events and what actually happened than an actual eyewitness, and the one who admitted to kidnapping Tori and murdering her. If the judge thought the cross examination was irrelevant, he would have asked where the defence is going with this line of questioning, though it seems clear to me where he is going with it, again JMO.

 

[matou]

I believe Derstine is trying to establish that TLM knew that Tori was TM's child and that she killed her out of revenge for a drug debt, or, when TM said she didn't want to breed her dog with theirs, TLM considered that a snub or diss against her and her mother. (TM testified that CM called her and JG and was quite upset that they didn't want to breed their dogs)
In the letters that TLM wrote she mentioned that she didn't like it when people said things about her family that she considered disrespectful.
The defence has also established that TLM is vengeful and wrote at great length at what she'd do to people that wronged her, she even said she'd hurt innocent people connected to those that wronged her.

TLM targets Tori out of revenge against TM and JG because they didn't want to breed dogs with hers = reasonable doubt

MOO

Where is the letter where she is angry at Tara for dissing her? JMO

 

[~n/t~]

This is what I got from today's questioning. It looks as though the defence could be trying to point to TLM insinuating she targeted Tori for something in particular. At least that is where it seemed to be going.

That kidnapping Tori was her idea and MR just went along for the ride?

 

[Flowercb]

To me it seems pretty obvious (as I have said before) he is trying to paint her a liar, which she is, he will try to make the jury believe that she made up the story of MTR sexually assaulting Tori. In fact he may try to make the jury believe MTR wasn't there at all and unless crown has good evidence that he was ... well ...

How far is a defence attorney willing to go...If he knows his client is guilty or has a strong feeling--this is disgusting. MOO:moo:

 

[dilbert]

Where is the letter where she is angry at Tara for dissing her? JMO

There is no such letter to Tara, I'm talking about the letters that TLM wrote in jail in 2008 about how she didn't like people who dissed her family. Derstine is trying to show that TLM is vengeful and it is my opinion that it's possible that TLM felt dissed by TM and JG when TM turned down the offer to breed her dog with CM's.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

IMO, she is the most relevant witness the Crown likely has, as she is the one that pointed the finger at MTR. She was there, who better to give an account of the timeline of events and what actually happened than an actual eyewitness, and the one who admitted to kidnapping Tori and murdering her. If the judge thought the cross examination was irrelevant, he would have asked where the defence is going with this line of questioning, though it seems clear to me where he is going with it, again JMO.

Did we get a timeline from this xc? Maybe I missed it. Was there testimony given by this witness that gave reasonable doubt that MR could not have been there when this crime occured?