trial thread: 4/02/2012

[JayFriend]

While I understand keeping the media away from the jury, for various reasons (including the media's tendency to bug and question people, wouldn't want one of them to try to get to one of the jurors and potentially influence their opinion), but I am curious as to why MR was hidden. If they were afraid for his safety, they wouldn't have brought him along. I will assume that the general public was NOT allowed near the scene, and the chances of somebody from the media going after him is very slim. I would understand the media to be instructed NOT to report on his presence until after he has left, and not to take any photographs of him... but... I don't get why he was hidden.

Anybody have any idea why this might have been done?

:moo:

My feeling is that Rafferty and/or his lawyer didn't want the jury to see him there and think of him as more guilty. Especially, they didn't want the media to see him there and take pictures. While it is apparently his right to visit the scene, what would the jury and public think if he declined? I believe they'd thing he felt guilt. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The fact that nobody saw him and took a picture doesn't mean he was there or not. I didn't read whether anybody drove up the laneway today or walked. Could Rafferty have been driven up ther in the back of a car with heavily tinted windows?

 

[fats]

I hope Rafferty has to wear hand cuffs and shackles for this walk down memory lane

This crime took place on the Wednesday before the Easter Long Weekend 2009. April 8th, 2009.....It is interesting they are visiting the crime site so close to the anniversary. This must be very difficult for the family and the jury and all of those involved who cared for this little girl.

 

[nettie_82]

In this photo taken by the LFpress, it shows a van with dark windows following the bus, and a Chrysler vehicle following the van also with dark windows. I am guessing Jury was in the bus, MR was in the van (maybe with his lawyer?) and Judge Heeney is in the Chrysler vehicle. JMO

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/...don/raffertytrial/2012/04/02/pf-19583156.html

 

[Kamille]

The only reason I can think of is that someone may try to assassinate him. There must be a lot of people out there who hate him. That may not be the official reason, but JMO.

I think he was in the van for the reasons I stated earlier. He retained his right to be at the scene to witness what the jury was being shown, however he was not paraded in front of the jury under police guard, in any kind of restraints, which I'm sure his lawyer would have wanted to prevent. The jury was also unable to guage his reaction to the crime scene, which would make sense because any reaction he makes during the trial is like testifying without taking the stand.

It was the best solution IMO.

MOO

 

[nettie_82]

I am willing to be the people who live in that house across the road from the laneway are wanting their privacy back after all this attention.

 

[Kamille]

But how can that evidence be taken when she cant make up her mind on what happened? Lets say he didnt do it and they are taking her word, how is that justice?

To my knowledge, TLM has recanted who picked out or chose the murder weapon and who actually kicked Victoria and then wielded the hammer ending her life. I believe the rest of her account of that day is the same. I don't think she's gone back and forth and can't make up her mind. She's seemed to have maintained her second version of events. Are there any examples of other things that she has changed her mind about in her account of that day? TIA

MOO

 

[flipflop]

In this photo taken by the LFpress, it shows a van with dark windows following the bus, and a Chrysler vehicle following the van also with dark windows. I am guessing Jury was in the bus, MR was in the van (maybe with his lawyer?) and Judge Heeney is in the Chrysler vehicle. JMO

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/...don/raffertytrial/2012/04/02/pf-19583156.html

I noticed in link above, in the pic of LE closing the gate that all of the purple flowers that were on the gate were removed....they were there yesterday!

 

[Kamille]

I am willing to be the people who live in that house across the road from the laneway are wanting their privacy back after all this attention.

Someone posted a radio call in interview with the woman who lives in that house on one of the earlier threads and she seems just as deeply anguished about what happened there now as I'm sure she did three years ago. I have a lot of sympathy for that family. It must be very difficult to have to go on living there.

Such a beautiful home, forever tainted by the memory of what happened across the road.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I noticed in link above, in the pic of LE closing the gate that all of the purple flowers that were on the gate were removed....they were there yesterday!

I don't think it would have been appropriate for the jury to see that. It would elicit emotion that the jury has to try to keep in check while looking at this case "clinically" as the judge instructed.

I wonder if they were replaced after the jury and media left the area?

MOO

 

[Oldsoul2]

While I understand keeping the media away from the jury, for various reasons (including the media's tendency to bug and question people, wouldn't want one of them to try to get to one of the jurors and potentially influence their opinion), but I am curious as to why MR was hidden. If they were afraid for his safety, they wouldn't have brought him along. I will assume that the general public was NOT allowed near the scene, and the chances of somebody from the media going after him is very slim. I would understand the media to be instructed NOT to report on his presence until after he has left, and not to take any photographs of him... but... I don't get why he was hidden.

Anybody have any idea why this might have been done?

:moo:

He is in custody, they are responsible for him even though he hasn't been found guilty yet. People hate, loathe baby killers never mind child molesters inside and out of jail. If anything should happen, being that this is a high profile case, they are responsible. Did you not follow the Casey Anthony case, kept her in protective custody the whole time.

 

[Oldsoul2]

Maybe his team wanted to observe from a distance what portions of the crime scene attracted which jurors to gage their defence IMO

I'm sure all portions of the crime scene mortified them.

 

[roseofsharon]

Long ways to go for a peepee and a talk:what::twocents:

A few years ago, we had landscaping done. Once everything was planted, the landscaper took us driving on the country roads to gather pretty stones and rocks. At that time, we wondered about trespassing onto a farmer's field, even though the rocks were close to the road, but the landscaper told us it would not be a problem, as the farmers like to be rid of them.

After viewing the rocks at the crime scene in the picture, along with the seclusion of the area, IMO, if MTR worked at landscaping in the surrounding areas, he may have been very familiar with this road for collecting rocks for landscaping jobs he may have worked on.

Originally, I was of the opinion there were a few rocks that MTR and TLM had to walk around and find, but this is obviously not the case here. Rocks were quite plentiful in all sizes, it would appear.

IMO

 

[Confusedashell]

A few years ago, we had landscaping done. Once everything was planted, the landscaper took us driving on the country roads to gather pretty stones and rocks. At that time, we wondered about trespassing onto a farmer's field, even though the rocks were close to the road, but the landscaper told us it would not be a problem, as the farmers like to be rid of them.

After viewing the rocks at the crime scene in the picture, along with the seclusion of the area, IMO, if MTR worked at landscaping in the surrounding areas, he may have been very familiar with this road for collecting rocks for landscaping jobs he may have worked on.

Originally, I was of the opinion there were a few rocks that MTR and TLM had to walk around and find, but this is obviously not the case here. Rocks were quite plentiful in all sizes, it would appear.

IMO

good point.....

 

[Sillybilly]

If MTR didn't know that location, surely he would not have driven up there in case there was a residence. JMO

 

[flipflop]

Mr. Rafferty, too, was brought along, driven from his London jail cell in a heavy-duty police Suburban with tinted windows. But he did not leave the vehicle, which remained parked at the entrance to the pathway, with marked police cruisers up and down the road.

they were reminded by Judge Thomas Heeney that it was, in effect, a temporary extension of the courtroom.

So while they could take notes and were provided with guide books, and while helpful yellow markers lined the trail up which they hiked, they were specifically asked not to talk while the tour was under way, even on the bus



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ere-tori-staffords-body-found/article2389019/

 

[Wondergirl]

More info here, and a video of TLM and MTR from an earlier article.

Three specially sworn court officers accompanied the jurors on their expedition. Then, flanked by police, the media were permitted to take a walk-through: Up the pathway, across a culvert, past a big pile of rocks and then up to the spot where Mr. Rafferty allegedly parked his Honda Civic before raping and killing the little girl.

Although just a short walk from Concession Road 6, and reached by a gravel path in good repair, it’s a strikingly well-concealed location, invisible from any of the farm houses that dot the landscape, and it seemed hard to believe the two accused could have stumbled across it by accident.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ere-tori-staffords-body-found/article2389019/

 

[antiquegirl]

If MTR didn't know that location, surely he would not have driven up there in case there was a residence. JMO

If there had been a residence, they could have just turned around and left. Proximity to other people didn't seem to be a concern during their several stops in Guelph. That car got very close to other drivers and pedestrians in a few places before they reached the Mount Forest location. MTR even reportedly spent 10 minutes chatting with BA while Tori and TLM were sitting in the car on a public road, presumably with neighbours around and passing traffic.

JMO

 

[Macright]

wow maybe some consider O/T but..some things are possible if there is any doubt..

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...lty-liard-acquitted-in-aleksandra-murder?bn=1

 

[maxfactor]

If MTR didn't know that location, surely he would not have driven up there in case there was a residence. JMO

You're such a sensible sillybilly.:clap: Chapter 8 is about MR's connection to the Mount Forest area so I think we'll find he was very familiar with the area.

 

[swedie]

But how can that evidence be taken when she cant make up her mind on what happened? Lets say he didnt do it and they are taking her word, how is that justice?

The jurors have been asked to look at all the evidence as it becomes available, to weigh it in their minds as to whether it makes sense or not. We know for a fact MR and TLM were present from the time Tori was pushed into his car until MR and TLM left her dead body in garbage bags underneath boulders and rocks. The jurors do not have to take TLM's testimony as truth. They can pick and chose what to believe or they can chose to ignore her testimony altogether. From there the have to decide whether they believe MR sexual assaulted Tori or not, based on what other evidence or theory they had. Such as; why was Tori naked from the waist down, what was the motive for abducting her ie. drug debt, rape, revenge, dare. Is there enough evidence to support the theory? There does not have to be direct evidence such as DNA, semen or scientific, just a reasonable doubt that the sexual assault happened based on the information presented by the Crown and argued by the defense. The defense does not have to prove anything but they may argue the Crown's theory or evidence.:moo: We have to have faith in the jurors that they will make the best decision based on what they see and hear during the trial.

This link is the instructions the judge would have given to the jurors at the start of MR's trial. Part 3 and forward. HTH

http://www.cjc-ccm.gc.ca/cmslib/general/NCJI-Jury-Instruction-Preliminary-2011-03-E.pdf