GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #13

[IBsleuthin]

You just scream MOD!

Just kidding. Don't do that.

You can pm them. I think there's mods following if you look at the currently active members online below all the posts. Click on their name to pm.

Or some say, alert your own post where the red triangle is to the right of a post.

This made me laugh. Sometimes you need to laugh in situations like this.

 

[ctkid]

I see a lot of cruel speculation here regarding TH's mom apparently just because she is his mom. The only thing I have read about her from MSM is that she is a single working parent.
Suspect is a legal adult. He is responsible for who he is.

I am the biological mother of a non-violent adult anti-social disordered son. He had love, discipline and morality in his life and is brilliant. Mostly, he had love shown to him 24/7 but he is incapable of loving others, or even caring about their feelings in a superficial way.

I would give 10 years of my life to have 1 day with him as a mother to a grown son but he cannot relate to anyone on any type of personal basis. No drugs, no alcohol, nothing in ANY of our lives at ANY point, before or after his conception.. just the worst possible personality disorder which breeds killers.

I think the speculation (of drug use) is coming from the grandfathers comments about her and TH and the boyfriend living in the trailer on his property (When TH was young). With him saying the trailer was trashed and he threw them out after that, made everyone believe that something about drug/alcohol use was going on. We all know that TH did drugs. The question would be how did she know or not know that was going on in the house. Did the mom never check is facebook account? I check my kids facebook. I also sometimes question them on why did you just post that.

 

[ctkid]

The reason for the speculation about her being on drugs when pregnant is due to MSM info: she was a teen mother, and her father bought a trailer for her, in which he eventually found drug paraphernalia and kicked her out.

But in any case, the speculation about this is more to do with "what went wrong with Tyler" than trying to be deliberately cruel about his mother, who does seem to be a single working mother. It's just ongoing attempts to try to find an explanation. I think everyone knows sometimes there isn't one, but the questions are still worthwhile.

We were on the same track.

 

[blue22]

I see a lot of cruel speculation here regarding TH's mom apparently just because she is his mom. The only thing I have read about her from MSM is that she is a single working parent.
Suspect is a legal adult. He is responsible for who he is.

I am the biological mother of a non-violent adult anti-social disordered son. He had love, discipline and morality in his life and is brilliant. Mostly, he had love shown to him 24/7 but he is incapable of loving others, or even caring about their feelings in a superficial way.

I would give 10 years of my life to have 1 day with him as a mother to a grown son but he cannot relate to anyone on any type of personal basis. No drugs, no alcohol, nothing in ANY of our lives at ANY point, before or after his conception.. just the worst possible personality disorder which breeds killers.

I have a sister who had every resource, opportunity, and need met. No drugs, no violence, no instability. She sounds very much like your son.

Some people, are just born like they are. You can't parent some kids well or normal. You can't counsel them normal. You can't love them normal. They are born that way. I do think some people are made. I've just met way too many people who are born that way, to ever be convinced every bad person is made.

I used to work with sexually abused children at a county advocacy center. One of the things we did was support and prepare a victim for testimony. We sat in on testimony as an aditional support, and offered support after the trials. I was horrified at some of the cases, which involved an older sibling. Some of those children, had no conscience. There was a void, where they should have felt something for others. It was chilling, and every single parent said their child has always lacked that ability. Nearly all came from situations were there parents tried everything to rehabilitate. I wish I could say I haven't seen their names in the news throughout the years. I have, and it never surprised me. I believe they were born that way.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Just recently, a member linked to an article about a 20 year study on children born to crack addicted mothers. The results negated the previoius held theories about the adverse effects of crack on offspring. I'll have to look for the link. It was an interesting article.

When I was pregnant with my first son a brand new study came out that said pregnant women should not drink caffeine. AT ALL. (My mother just rolled her eyes).


So as I was buying all the cloth diapers and talking about the beautiful bonding I would be doing with my baby while breast feeding, I also eliminated anything that would remotely be connected to caffeine. Including chocolate. :facepalm:


TWO months...that's right TWO months after giving birth that same institute of health released a new study telling everyone to disregard the other study. It was now ok to drink caffeine while pregnant.

:banghead:


I went out and bought disposable diapers and a six pack of coca-cola the same day.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Maybe OT for this thread (deals with Ariel Castro), but an interesting insight into the psychology of a (possible) sexual psychopath, which perhaps applies to TH as well.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/08/01/am-not-monster-inside-mind-ariel-castro/

Sorry if anyone here has an aversion to Fox News.

This is an excellent article and describes how these people become what they are. I am in complete agreement re Castro and I think it can be applied to TH or anyone. Different horrors, different traumas but something if not more than one thing created and crushed the empathy out of him

 

[IBsleuthin]

In my opinion yes some are born evil... I have watched a pregnant mother do no drugs take care of her body, the baby be born the father and mother are both involved and very loving family very attentive, yet at the babies age of two months have colic horribly, with the mother and father and supportive family all doing all they can to calm said screaming baby, then at 2 have fits of rage so bad they lasted for hours the family took baby to the doctor and his response after several blood tests and other tests is that she is just that way with no explanation and to watch her constantly, then at 5 the mother tries to correct the child and she uses her bare feet to kick out a windshield of a car, again at jr high age stabbed another student in the hand because she asked if she could with an art scalpel the other student thinking she was joking said sure and then said child continued to stab other students hand with scalpel just because, another incident at 14 child snuck up behind mother in basement and beat her in the head with a real wooden bowling pin the mother restrained the child until someone came to help never once using violence to reprimand thinking it would just teach the child violence against violence is ok , then the child at 15 was on her way home with the mother and wanted to go to her boyfriends house the mother said no so the child grabs the steering wheel and forces the vehicle of the road multiple times, the mother stops the car and the child insists she is done fighting and trying to wreck so the mother pulls back onto the road and the child sits quietly until the mother is calmed down and less worried than she opens the door and jumps out at high speed, when the mother stops and is completely terrified her child is hurt the child jumps up runs to a truck that has pulled over after watching the chaos unfold, the driver was smart enough to lock the doors so the child couldn't get in and then the mother got the child restrained in the grass away from the road way while calling 911 as on the phone with the 911 operator the child starts screaming my mom pushed me out of the car help help... The mother was mortified thank goodness their was witnesses that watched everything and the small town area who knew of this child's past behavior... The mother begged for the hospital to admit the child for observation and psychological tests but the grandfather was a deputy sheriff and secured the hospital staff he child would now be taken care of by him and his wife... A week later the grandparents were calling mom to come handle the child while the deputy sheriff was in tears after a week of dealing with the child... This child was a cheerleader, played all sports, very popular, beautiful, was a student ambassador, went to church, had a very supportive and loving family, she was not sexually abused or abused physically in anyway... Today she has children of her own, has been through a horribly abusive relationship from both sides that ended up with the man in prison because she lied about him breaking into her house. As far as I have seen this child has never shown any remorse. She has gotten into drugs and the mother has finally said when you get your life straight call me I'm here but only if your ready to get help. ...
So some born evil I think so ( imbalance, psychological problems) but evil.

Shoulda had a CT scan and some Thorazine with a Valium chaser.

 

[bessie]

The reason for the speculation about her being on drugs when pregnant is due to MSM info: she was a teen mother, and her father bought a trailer for her, in which he eventually found drug paraphernalia and kicked her out.

You're correct. The question is valid. It can stand.

But in any case, the speculation about this is more to do with "what went wrong with Tyler" than trying to be deliberately cruel about his mother, who does seem to be a single working mother. It's just ongoing attempts to try to find an explanation. I think everyone knows sometimes there isn't one, but the questions are still worthwhile.

I agree, there is a difference between criticizing and objectively looking at facts to find answers. BUT...tread carefully because this path can easily meet a sudden sharp turn. Harsh statements about TH's mother will not be allowed. She's to be considered a victim herself at this point.

 

[IBsleuthin]

A thought on the sexual psychopath and any studies on them...


This is very much like the studies on lying. WHY would you ask a pathological liar anything? Are they going to tell you the truth? No.

I think the only information published is the interviewer's interpretation of the sexual psychopath's answers really. Because we have no way of ever knowing if they are in fact telling the truth.


(they just like playing games.)

(I was married to a Borderline Personality/Narcissistic Sociopath. Seriously I was and his older brother is the same way and their father is a bonafide psychopath. His youngest brother just got divorced and the man lies constantly. I don't know what it is about the lying with these types. My ex actually admitted that he didn't know why he lied but that he UNDERSTOOD that he was lying. Which was certainly an odd statement. But they LIE. ).

 

[GingerzMomma]

When I was pregnant with my first son a brand new study came out that said pregnant women should not drink caffeine. AT ALL. (My mother just rolled her eyes).


So as I was buying all the cloth diapers and talking about the beautiful bonding I would be doing with my baby while breast feeding, I also eliminated anything that would remotely be connected to caffeine. Including chocolate. :facepalm:


TWO months...that's right TWO months after giving birth that same institute of health released a new study telling everyone to disregard the other study. It was now ok to drink caffeine while pregnant.

:banghead:


I went out and bought disposable diapers and a six pack of coca-cola the same day.

I can relate:

When I was preg w/ #1 doc said it was okay to have one glass of wine a week. By the time the last one came she (and ACOG) did a 180 and not a drop was allowed through the course of pregnancy!

I did drink one glass of coffee/day every time, but no soda (and actually haven't drank soda at all since!). I'll let you know how they turn out in about 20 years.

You can't win.

Okay, back on topic......

 

[Jo in Calif]

I see a lot of cruel speculation here regarding TH's mom apparently just because she is his mom. The only thing I have read about her from MSM is that she is a single working parent.
Suspect is a legal adult. He is responsible for who he is.

I am the biological mother of a non-violent adult anti-social disordered son. He had love, discipline and morality in his life and is brilliant. Mostly, he had love shown to him 24/7 but he is incapable of loving others, or even caring about their feelings in a superficial way.

I would give 10 years of my life to have 1 day with him as a mother to a grown son but he cannot relate to anyone on any type of personal basis. No drugs, no alcohol, nothing in ANY of our lives at ANY point, before or after his conception.. just the worst possible personality disorder which breeds killers.

Another thing that I think makes us speculate on the mother is two things that you said #1- that all we know is that she is a single working parent. Also it has been said that she often has to leave him alone unattended. Has this gone on most of his life? What could have gone on in his life while he was unattended?

#2-You said that mostly he, your son, had been shown love 24/7. Can a single working mother that mostly leaves her child home unattended show her child love 24/7?

I know there a lot of working moms that have shown their children love and they have turned out fine. But did this happen with him?

We just don't know a whole lot about the mom. Are we blaming her, we cant, because we don't know, but we are trying to figure it out with what we have to go on, which is so little.

No one is saying it is the fault of someone else that he did what he did. But sometimes there are things that can happen in a child's life that will cause them to be so angry that they will act out on that anger. We just don't know. This really is not cruel speculating.

 

[x_files]

I see a lot of cruel speculation here regarding TH's mom apparently just because she is his mom. The only thing I have read about her from MSM is that she is a single working parent.
Suspect is a legal adult. He is responsible for who he is.

I am the biological mother of a non-violent adult anti-social disordered son. He had love, discipline and morality in his life and is brilliant. Mostly, he had love shown to him 24/7 but he is incapable of loving others, or even caring about their feelings in a superficial way.

I would give 10 years of my life to have 1 day with him as a mother to a grown son but he cannot relate to anyone on any type of personal basis. No drugs, no alcohol, nothing in ANY of our lives at ANY point, before or after his conception.. just the worst possible personality disorder which breeds killers.

MSM quoted her father said she was kicked out for using drugs when TH was a toddler. Unless, the father is lying it's a strong possibility she took drugs before, during or after he was born causing development problems.

 

[x_files]

I don't think so. 420 seems to have been his drug of chice IMO.

Never heard of anyone putting out ads in exchange for pot before. Meth, crack and coke yes, not pot.

 

[KMouse]

Never heard of anyone putting out ads in exchange for pot before. Meth, crack and coke yes, not pot.

I took it as "420" friendly in the sense that the person TH would meet up with would bring the pot and they would smoke together.

Who knows...but thanks to coming here I learn new things everyday. Much to the disdain of my husband. LOL

 

[x_files]

A thought on the sexual psychopath and any studies on them...


This is very much like the studies on lying. WHY would you ask a pathological liar anything? Are they going to tell you the truth? No.

I think the only information published is the interviewer's interpretation of the sexual psychopath's answers really. Because we have no way of ever knowing if they are in fact telling the truth.


(they just like playing games.)

(I was married to a Borderline Personality/Narcissistic Sociopath. Seriously I was and his older brother is the same way and their father is a bonafide psychopath. His youngest brother just got divorced and the man lies constantly. I don't know what it is about the lying with these types. My ex actually admitted that he didn't know why he lied but that he UNDERSTOOD that he was lying. Which was certainly an odd statement. But they LIE. ).

I was married to a Malignant Narcissist. He was clinically diagnosed. He lied about if he stopped at 7-11 or not. I asked him why lie about stopping at 7-11 or not? No one cares. He said he had no idea why but felt compelled to lie.
He lied about everything. I still do not really know everything about him. His adoption was a lie and his birth mother lied about his bio father. Then his adoptive mother lied to him.
It was too much to live with. He did not take drugs or drink but was a sex addict from childhood sexual abuse by his adoptive mother. He hated women because of it and became violent towards women he felt weren't doing as told. Overbearing, controlling and violent. He justified sleeping with underage girls, he rationalized it and blamed them and then staring predating on even younger teens and using date rape drugs in a club he worked at.
LE did nothing.
He now has a very unhealthy incestous relationship with his daughter and brags about it.
I am lucky to have escaped alive.
I try to understand psychopaths but no matter what cannot truly understand the lack of empathy and remorse.
I wish TH could be tested he maybe NPD and/or a psychopath. Drugs probably made him less inhibited and hard to control urges.

 

[Alyssa]

I don't think so. 420 seems to have been his drug of chice IMO.

You can mix drugs in with pot too. PCP...coke, whatever.

 

[momtective]

I took it as "420" friendly in the sense that the person TH would meet up with would bring the pot and they would smoke together.

Who knows...but thanks to coming here I learn new things everyday. Much to the disdain of my husband. LOL

I'm think "420" has gone from being used for just "weed" to being used for "drugs" in general. TH just wanted to get high and... well...you know.

I don't think he really cared what the substance was, as long it it got him where he wanted to be. He doesn't appear to be very selective about anything or anyone, does he. :doh:

 

[Flossie JMO]

MSM quoted her father said she was kicked out for using drugs when TH was a toddler. Unless, the father is lying it's a strong possibility she took drugs before, during or after he was born causing development problems.

That's not quite what I read, jmo:


"After the divorce, Jeff Holder and his new wife, Gina, bought Kimberly Holder a mobile home and set it on their property so she could live there with her son, then around 2, he said. A boyfriend of Kimberly’s also lived there.

Gina Holder remembers Tyler Holder as a “wild child,” a little-bitty kid who had to be forced to eat his macaroni and cheese and was on medicine for hyperactivity.

“He had a mind of his own, for sure,” Gina Holder said. “Even when he was young, he was hard to correct. He was hard to corral. … It was his way or no way.”

Gina Holder said her husband asked his daughter to leave after they found the mobile home trashed, with drug paraphernalia inside. She said Kimberly Holder and her son drifted apart from the couple after that."

 

[Midwestmama78]

When I was pregnant with my first son a brand new study came out that said pregnant women should not drink caffeine. AT ALL. (My mother just rolled her eyes).


So as I was buying all the cloth diapers and talking about the beautiful bonding I would be doing with my baby while breast feeding, I also eliminated anything that would remotely be connected to caffeine. Including chocolate. :facepalm:


TWO months...that's right TWO months after giving birth that same institute of health released a new study telling everyone to disregard the other study. It was now ok to drink caffeine while pregnant.

:banghead:


I went out and bought disposable diapers and a six pack of coca-cola the same day.

I have come to the conclusion that most "conventional wisdom" by "experts" is hogwash and I ignore it. Besides, you'll drive yourself nuts trying to conform to everything the "experts" say you should be doing or not doing.:banghead:

 

[SCHMAE]

Shoulda had a CT scan and some Thorazine with a Valium chaser.

Having a schizophrenic mother has caused me to really look into things and causes and the whole nature vs nurture debate. I do know which side I lean in it, HOWEVER, there are some fascinating studies that are more recent about things that can cause various mental disorders in the uterus. Well I would not say they ' cause' them necessarily but your chances of this or that are higher or lower with a variety of influences when pregnant. Some may be coincidence but others seem really valid. Things like weather, climate, social standing etc. while pregnant may affect the unborn baby . So it is interesting and a fun read if anyone is interested. You can draw your own conclusions.