TX TX - Elizabeth Barraza, 29, murdered setting up garage sale, Harris Co, Jan 2019 #7

[Charlot123]

Can you tell me how this works? Do you mean that they compare the locations of known phones?

No not this. Just try to see what phones in general were findable in the area from say, 9 pm the previous day to 9 am the day of the murder. The killers might have had the phone "on" when driving by at 2 AM. I suspect they were new to Liz's neighborhood and needed some GPS help. I guess LE gets the data dump from the local cell towers.

Another thought - the killers could have switched the phone back on later. They have some choices as to the potential way out of the area, so maybe they needed the GPS after all? Like, if they went past the courthouse and on the lawn, as some imply, they could have switched the phone on there. Or any other nearby areas where the killers could have had questions as they were driving out.

I assume that they did not know the area that well so the moment they felt they were away from Liz's house they could have switched the phone on. This doesn't imply that they were totally nonlocal.

I am thinking: I know my town well, but there are some developments where I have never been to. "Sleeping areas". So, say, I can drive myself to a local school (in their case, it would be Goddard, a landmark), but how to get out through the older development past the school, I have a very vague idea. There are no stores there, no landmarks. Without the GPS, I'd probably intuitively drive North or East, to a bigger road, but I won't know where the cul-de-sacs or breaks in the streets might be. So I'll finally end up getting on a wider road leading N or E, but on getting there, I'd make a lot of lapses. Most of such neighbors are not "planned" but emerge as the developers buy the new land, so the streets have breaks, there are cul-de sacs, whatnot.
So the killers people can be local in terms of living in/around Houston, but not quite local to Tomball. Liz's area is a typical "sleeping" one, with few landmarks.

Goddard school had the cameras off but perhaps the internet was on? Could the cellphone "handshake" with it? Or "shake hands" with the home networks on the car's way, or maybe with the B's "nest" camera at night?

Another place where they could have switched the phone on could be several blocks away when they passed the courthouse if I remember correctly and took a shortcut via the lawn? (I saw the movie a while ago, this is the version when they pass the courthouse and end in the cul-de-sac and the easiest way out to the large road is to drive on the ground? Maybe they went that way? This is far enough and a logical place to switch on the GPS). See what phones were "speaking" in that area in the morning via a towers data dump. Maybe if any "shook hands" with the network in the courthouse?

Also, how old was the car? Did it have the GPS? Or, could they have used something like an older Garmin? Is should be identifiable?

I hope LE got the local towers data dumps. I think that the way humans think, once a person feels that they are away from the CS, but time to get out of Tumball is the essence, one may feel safe to switch on the cellphone. And during the nighttime reconnaissance trip when they passed the house, it was before the crime, so they could have left the cellphone on. Or the car's navigator, or the Garmin.

 

[Charlot123]

My pleasure!

Like @flowershop, I don't totally discount their apartment burglary or the "office/building" shooting incident, since Morf said that was recent.

Stranger things have happened in cases. Dan Markel's coked-up hired murders accidently shot a hole in the floorboard of their rental car on one of their recognizance trips. Could be the killer checking out her workplace, scouting.

Sergio said they were like Velcro. It would be one of the places she is without him. ALONE though: NO, but parking lot shootings are much more plausible than garage sales ones.

I have chalked it up to late night H-town antics for the building shooting, BUT "there is no such thing as a coincidence. They’re always suspicious. They happen more than once, they become evidence.”- Detective Joe Kenda

Florida has Florida Man
we unfortunately have H-town Man & Woman​

Interesting thought/theory from Rosemary Nuelle:
~15:00 mark, "and so I really don't think that she knew the shooter, but the person that hired the shooter, I firmly believe that. I'm as positive as I possibly can be with not knowing what really happened, that person knew her and I think Sergio as well intimately. I mean, I think that they were very close friends, or they certainly had been at their house on multiple occasions."

In light of this it's also possible they knew Liz/Sergio during their apartment era.

What's the catalyst, Anniversary, the Trip, Christmas, New Years, Jealousy, $$

I certainly hope her family gets these answers soon and most of all Justice.

If we assume that both episodes (the break-in and the shooting into the window) are related to Liz, then i am slightly at a loss as to the motive. Say, the person needed to kill Liz. Then shooting into the window makes sense: a stray bullet, go guess. But the person missed hence a new elaborate plan.

The breaking doesn't make sense unless they were searching for Liz for a while but didn't know much about her (name, etc) and wanted to get some verification that they finally found her?

(Another reason would be to make the Bz move from the apartment to the house.)

If we assume that the break-in and the murder were done by the same person and the shooting at work was a random thing (spontaneous discharge or such) then the behavior...break-ins, vandalism than murder could be by a Kohberger-type person.

In the old time, I'd think it had to be something serious to justify such a risky thing as the murder, but after the last cases of murders or poisons I think that people lost the ability to think minimally rationally.

It was a 5-year-anniversary of their wedding and 10-years-since-they-met. What is more relevant? What happened in Liz's life during the year when she met Sergio?

 

[CosmeticChemistTX]

is there a way to see who put her address in GPS apps leading up to the murder?

 

[DTPeke]

is there a way to see who put her address in GPS apps leading up to the murder?

Here's a case example using a reverse keyword search via Google to identify suspects.

Landmark case: Colorado vs. Seymour, an arson w/ five killed, Google initially fought the warrant arguing scope too broad & violated user 4th amendment rights

a reverse keyword search warrant: anonymized data is provided: device ID / IP addresses, a second warrant is needed to unmask the device ID / IP addresses

Some mapping apps do not share data by design like Apple Maps using end to end encryption.

 

[fridaybaker]

DTPete, do you have any idea if LE attempts to get this data in many cases? Would they have tried it here?

This also leads me to my next question. I don’t know much about Tomball, but I would imagine that the size and other aspects of a police jurisdiction could severely limit how much investigation is done in any particular case. I often wonder “why wasn’t this or that done”, but realistically I wonder how much can be done.

 

[DTPeke]

DTPeke, do you have any idea if LE attempts to get this data in many cases? Would they have tried it here?

This also leads me to my next question. I don’t know much about Tomball, but I would imagine that the size and other aspects of a police jurisdiction could severely limit how much investigation is done in any particular case. I often wonder “why wasn’t this or that done”, but realistically I wonder how much can be done.

The capability and technology have existed a long time, the usage of keyword search warrants is fairly new to criminal investigations. I only found a few case references. Austin Bombing and the other I posted. They're controversial and disputed.

I bet he tried, he stays updated on new technology, takes classes and was mentored by a cold-case detective.

a GEOFENCE was obtained, in the same family as keyword searches using reverse search techniques, where investigators start with data and work backwards to find suspects.

each step is a process, and although we all hate how grainy all the camera footage is, we're lucky we have it, t's an integral piece of the puzzle in providing timestamps & location for the probable cause to obtain all these warrants.

Texas Rangers are assisting they provided the vehicle registrations; they have statewide jurisdiction and state of the art tools. Our ranger's field office is in Montgomery County, the adjoining county.

FBI as well.

I wonder every day too; lots can be done but hinges on what gets approved.

we know he tried obtaining a CELL TOWER DUMP @29.00, which was not approved by DA, likely too broad/evasive and would produce massive amounts of data.

I'll add we only know a little of what they know or what's been done.... no doubt they've faced many obstacles. They could even have something and not know it yet.

back to the Adelson trial, we'll see a guilty there...and one day, hopefully soon we'll see that for Liz.

***Another Geofence Link**

6 years later, investigators continue to pursue leads in Tomball woman’s killing

Harris County Sheriff's Office confirms the 2019 murder of Liz Barraza remains under investigation as detectives continue to track new leads.

www.click2houston.com

 

[fridaybaker]

Wow. THANKS for the comprehensive info! Really appreciate it. Your point about the "grainy video" is something I hadn't thought of before. We can't recognize a specific face, but that doesn't mean that the video isn't useful. Hopefully, they'll nail this down. It's such a terrible thing to be going about your life, doing a garage sale, and the next you're literally blown away. Awful.

 

[DTPeke]

Wow. THANKS for the comprehensive info! Really appreciate it. Your point about the "grainy video" is something I hadn't thought of before. We can't recognize a specific face, but that doesn't mean that the video isn't useful. Hopefully, they'll nail this down. It's such a terrible thing to be going about your life, doing a garage sale, and the next you're literally blown away. Awful.

I always think of her Harry Potter luggage already packed and ready to go.

I have Dan Markel on my mind, today, the trial is in progress. His death and case are comparable; it's a great case "analysis" for a "hit" with multiple co-conspirators.

I think you asked about cell phone triangulation. Day 4 early testimony in Donna Adelson's trial, is an excellent example of what is eventually produced coupled with other evidence: texts, emails, surveillance footage, toll roads

It really tells the "story of the crime". Corroborates or breaks alibis, unveils communication patterns.
IT NAILS THEM.

Triangulating cell phone data offers a more precise location estimate by analyzing signal strength from three nearby towers.

Still not sure what we are looking at in Liz's case, it's savagery beyond comprehension.

ETA: tagged @Charlot123, your points were really good about the cell phones. I'd forgotten how cells can "handshake" with other devices.

 

[arielilane]

It’s interesting to think about the other cases of women who kill. I am not saying a woman shot Liz Barraza, what I am saying is something to think about how women choose to kill.

For example, in the case of Amy Fischer, JB insinuated to Amy, it would be nice if someone killed his wife. So what does Amy do, she goes up to the Buttafuoco home, has about a 15 minute conversation w/JB's wife Mary Jo, which caused MJ to become angry, and she asked Amy to leave. Amy took out a firearm and struck Mary Jo with it, causing the gun to go off. The bullet hit Mary Jo in the right side of the head, severely wounding Mary Jo, but did not kill her. It’s worth noting that Amy had a getaway driver at the time of the incident.

Another case, Sheila Keen-Warren known as the "clown killer,” who fatally shot Marlene Warren while dressed as a clown in 1990. Clown killer also went to the home of Marlene. SW admitted to dressing up as a clown and fatally shooting her husband’s first wife at the victim's FL home over 30 years ago. Btw, clown killer got a sweetheart of a deal.


Of course, there is the case of Missy Bevers’ cowardly killer who dressed up as police to disguise gender, etc. Missy was killed shortly after she entered the church while preparing for her 5:00 am fitness class.

These shootings shared some similarities to Liz Barraza’s case.

If there are any other cases that come to mind, please dont hesitant to mention them.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

It’s interesting to think about the other cases of women who kill. I am not saying a woman shot Liz Barraza, what I am saying is something to think about how women choose to kill.

For example, in the case of Amy Fischer, JB insinuated to Amy, it would be nice if someone killed his wife. So what does Amy do, she goes up to the Buttafuoco home, has about a 15 minute conversation w/JB's wife Mary Jo, which caused MJ to become angry, and she asked Amy to leave. Amy took out a firearm and struck Mary Jo with it, causing the gun to go off. The bullet hit Mary Jo in the right side of the head, severely wounding Mary Jo, but did not kill her. It’s worth noting that Amy had a getaway driver at the time of the incident.

Another case, Sheila Keen-Warren known as the "clown killer,” who fatally shot Marlene Warren while dressed as a clown in 1990. Clown killer also went to the home of Marlene. SW admitted to dressing up as a clown and fatally shooting her husband’s first wife at the victim's FL home over 30 years ago. Btw, clown killer got a sweetheart of a deal.


Of course, there is the case of Missy Bevers’ cowardly killer who dressed up as police to disguise gender, etc. Missy was killed shortly after she entered the church while preparing for her 5:00 am fitness class.

These shootings shared some similarities to Liz Barraza’s case.

If there are any other cases that come to mind, please dont hesitant to mention them.

It’s interesting to think about. I have always thought either a man dressed as woman and uncoordinated or a woman who was uncoordinated. I could go so far as to say with a disability of sorts based on the walk/run. I won’t go much further in my description that’s in my mind so as not to be divisive, but I see a definite type.

JMO

 

[Hexe]

Of course, there is the case of Missy Bevers’ cowardly killer who dressed up as police to disguise gender, etc. Missy was killed shortly after she entered the church while preparing for her 5:00 am fitness class.

In case of Missy the perpetrator havent been identified yet and so their gender remains unknown. It's fine to speculate about it but you should mark it as such.

 

[Mimi in London]

It’s interesting to think about the other cases of women who kill. I am not saying a woman shot Liz Barraza, what I am saying is something to think about how women choose to kill.

For example, in the case of Amy Fischer, JB insinuated to Amy, it would be nice if someone killed his wife. So what does Amy do, she goes up to the Buttafuoco home, has about a 15 minute conversation w/JB's wife Mary Jo, which caused MJ to become angry, and she asked Amy to leave. Amy took out a firearm and struck Mary Jo with it, causing the gun to go off. The bullet hit Mary Jo in the right side of the head, severely wounding Mary Jo, but did not kill her. It’s worth noting that Amy had a getaway driver at the time of the incident.

Another case, Sheila Keen-Warren known as the "clown killer,” who fatally shot Marlene Warren while dressed as a clown in 1990. Clown killer also went to the home of Marlene. SW admitted to dressing up as a clown and fatally shooting her husband’s first wife at the victim's FL home over 30 years ago. Btw, clown killer got a sweetheart of a deal.


Of course, there is the case of Missy Bevers’ cowardly killer who dressed up as police to disguise gender, etc. Missy was killed shortly after she entered the church while preparing for her 5:00 am fitness class.

These shootings shared some similarities to Liz Barraza’s case.

If there are any other cases that come to mind, please dont hesitant to mention them.

Interesting pattern. And in 2018 Krystal Kenney, at Patrick Frazee's bidding, tried to murder Kelsey Berreth with a Starbucks coffee laced with prescription meds. She knocked on Kelsey's door, pretended to be a neighbour and gave her a gift of her favourite coffee. Kelsey didn't drink it and Frazee eventually killed her himself.

 

[Megnut]

There's a dreadful case somewhere within these threads of a girlfriend who believed her boyfriend (maybe they were spouses) was inheriting a huge fortune (he wasn't, he was a victim of a scam), believed she would inherit it if he died, murdered him, only to learn there wasn't even a dollar to be had.

Is there someone a few things out from EB who believed that EB's death would result in a life insurance payout to her husband that would secondarily benefit this person in some way. I have no person in mind but imagine, say, a couch surfer and/or someone else's child or significant other who believed that the husband having more money would benefit them.

Did someone think this would secure housing for themselves or someone they know? Someone acting independently, believing the outcome would benefit them or someone close to them.

All rhetorical questions, but when a cases goes this long without an arrest, I can't help but to wonder if it wasn't a hidden and mistaken motive that might explain this crime.

JMO

 

[LinasK]

When I saw this case way back on some true crime show, wasn't there some speculation that her FIL, Sergio's father hated her for some reason???

 

[FromGermany1]

There's a dreadful case somewhere within these threads of a girlfriend who believed her boyfriend (maybe they were spouses) was inheriting a huge fortune (he wasn't, he was a victim of a scam), believed she would inherit it if he died, murdered him, only to learn there wasn't even a dollar to be had.

Is there someone a few things out from EB who believed that EB's death would result in a life insurance payout to her husband that would secondarily benefit this person in some way. I have no person in mind but imagine, say, a couch surfer and/or someone else's child or significant other who believed that the husband having more money would benefit them.

Did someone think this would secure housing for themselves or someone they know? Someone acting independently, believing the outcome would benefit them or someone close to them.

All rhetorical questions, but when a cases goes this long without an arrest, I can't help but to wonder if it wasn't a hidden and mistaken motive that might explain this crime.

JMO

I thought, SB's father would have liked it to have a son with money. Idk, whether I continue to think so.
Btw: Can it be, that the father payed his son in cash (unknowingly to Liz) plus wrote out a bad check (which Liz then complained about)?? Is it possible?

 

[arielilane]

In case of Missy the perpetrator havent been identified yet and so their gender remains unknown. It's fine to speculate about it but you should mark it as such.

It was marked "as such" - please see bbm.

Of course, there is the case of Missy Bevers’ cowardly killer who dressed up as police to disguise gender, etc. Missy was killed shortly after she entered the church while preparing for her 5:00 am fitness class.

 

[friendlysleuther]

I watched the ‘Crime Junkie’ episode on this.

It’s truly baffling, especially with today’s technology. I hope justice is served soon.

<modsnip>

 

[Charlot123]

This is a perplexing case due to how each of us interprets the evidence, even when there is surveillance video evidence.

For example, if it was a conspiracy that somehow Elizabeth's husband was involved, he would have to make sure that this person was not seen on the Nest doorbell camera. When Elizabeth and Sergio are moving the garage sale items onto the driveway before the murder, is this why he put the treadmill where he did on the driveway so Elizabeth would not be standing in that area and this person would not be recorded on the Nest doorbell camera?

I want to state I do not think Sergio was involved in the crime. it definitely does not look like that is him in the neighbor's surveillance video of the murder.

Or am I looking at something so closely and trying to interpret a meaning from it when in reality it has no meaning? Maybe the simple answer is that is just where Elizabeth and Sergio placed the treadmill once they moved it out of the garage? The killer, who almost was seen in the Nest doorbell video, got lucky they were not seen on the Nest doorbell camera footage.

Kind of wanted to say. Since no one has been officially cleared in the case, nor a suspect, I think it is fine to view Sergio’s involvement from “a usual percentage” situation perspective. 46% involved, 54%, not. Then it will be easier and open us to other options as well. Truth is often straightforward but thinking of the possible reasons, we may not be able to weigh in all situations. Is it “who profits?” case or a “revengeful anger” one? I always felt, the second. Liz could have been the innocent victim, btw, but the person’s reconstruction of the situation sucked.

 

[Charlot123]

It’s interesting to think about the other cases of women who kill. I am not saying a woman shot Liz Barraza, what I am saying is something to think about how women choose to kill.

For example, in the case of Amy Fischer, JB insinuated to Amy, it would be nice if someone killed his wife. So what does Amy do, she goes up to the Buttafuoco home, has about a 15 minute conversation w/JB's wife Mary Jo, which caused MJ to become angry, and she asked Amy to leave. Amy took out a firearm and struck Mary Jo with it, causing the gun to go off. The bullet hit Mary Jo in the right side of the head, severely wounding Mary Jo, but did not kill her. It’s worth noting that Amy had a getaway driver at the time of the incident.

Another case, Sheila Keen-Warren known as the "clown killer,” who fatally shot Marlene Warren while dressed as a clown in 1990. Clown killer also went to the home of Marlene. SW admitted to dressing up as a clown and fatally shooting her husband’s first wife at the victim's FL home over 30 years ago. Btw, clown killer got a sweetheart of a deal.


Of course, there is the case of Missy Bevers’ cowardly killer who dressed up as police to disguise gender, etc. Missy was killed shortly after she entered the church while preparing for her 5:00 am fitness class.

These shootings shared some similarities to Liz Barraza’s case.

If there are any other cases that come to mind, please dont hesitant to mention them.

I am not sure that the killer was a woman. It could have been not too tall, agile man.

Another question is, what was the driver’s gender? Could the driver be a woman? Does everyone imply it was a man? I am not sure.

 

[friendlysleuther]

I am not sure that the killer was a woman. It could have been not too tall, agile man.

Another question is, what was the driver’s gender? Could the driver be a woman? Does everyone imply it was a man? I am not sure.

The timing of it all is just so odd to me