Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #5

[Razz]

If BC was scared of MC’s daughters wouldn’t she make an effort to publicly support them or at least try to look less guilty in the public eye. In light of BC’s actions (what we know), her silence feels like indifference.

I don't think she fears them but IF BC does suspect suicide, I don't think
she'd want to contradict what the daughters had to say at the press conference several days after MC went missing. The daughters have been very firm in their belief that MC did not commit suicide. And it was soon after that the people (not the family) on the FB site started blaming BC for his disappearance.

I do not believe, at this point, that anyone would believe what she had
to say anyway.





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[kidetect22]

I don't think she fears them but IF BC does suspect suicide, I don't think
she'd want to contradict what the daughters had to say at the press conference several days after MC went missing. The daughters have been very firm in their belief that MC did not commit suicide. And it was soon after that the people (not the family) on the FB site started blaming BC for his disappearance.

I do not believe, at this point, that anyone would believe what she had
to say anyway.





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She was very firm telling PE that “he wasn’t coming back.” So A: she knows what happened because....
B: she knows what happened because ...

You can fill in the blanks however you choose. But if you know suicide is the answer for a fact- 100%, id tell it no matter who disagreed for the sake of my own name. For BC to state those words, she knew he was gone. If it was at the fate of himself .. how did she know? If that evidence is there and can clear you, as the wife why not state it ??! If it’s not suicide then what it is that she is so firm on him being gone ? Clearly she knows something and if you know your not guilty of any crime or why would you not state the facts ?????

 

[SavetheQueen]

RBBM

If she knows what happened and it was suicide, wouldn’t she still want him found? Even if their relationship was strained or even beyond repair, he is the father of her children after all.

To the best of my knowledge, she has never once asked the public to help find him, nor has she facilitated a single search.

Just like her having him declared deceased less than three months after his disappearance, this silence on her part is rather unusual, IMO. In fact, of the many missing persons cases I have followed that turned out to be suicide, I don’t believe I’ve seen anything like it.

The only word she’s publicly spoken was yelling out, “Mascara!” at the press conference. I think that says everything about her priorities.


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[SavetheQueen]

If BC was scared of MC’s daughters wouldn’t she make an effort to publicly support them or at least try to look less guilty in the public eye. In light of BC’s actions (what we know), her silence feels like indifference.

And why in the world would she be scared of them? I mean, besides the fact that one hired a top gun PI, and she’s going to be found out....


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[Razz]

She was very firm telling PE that “he wasn’t coming back.” So A: she knows what happened because....
B: she knows what happened because ...

You can fill in the blanks however you choose. But if you know suicide is the answer for a fact- 100%, id tell it no matter who disagreed for the sake of my own name. For BC to state those words, she knew he was gone. If it was at the fate of himself .. how did she know? If that evidence is there and can clear you, as the wife why not state it ??! If it’s not suicide then what it is that she is so firm on him being gone ? Clearly she knows something and if you know your not guilty of any crime or why would you not state the facts ?????

Well, maybe she did to the SO and felt further explanation to the family (did anyone ask?) wasn't necessary . I don't know. I'm not sure she knew it at first.

But the SO believes it to be a suicide.

I would like to know what evidence SM
gave to the family that he felt proved
that it was a suicide.

And obviously it didn't or they wouldn't still be saying it was not.

That is why I am anxious to see Klein's report.

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[Tripod]

She was very firm telling PE that “he wasn’t coming back.” So A: she knows what happened because....
B: she knows what happened because ...

You can fill in the blanks however you choose. But if you know suicide is the answer for a fact- 100%, id tell it no matter who disagreed for the sake of my own name. For BC to state those words, she knew he was gone. If it was at the fate of himself .. how did she know? If that evidence is there and can clear you, as the wife why not state it ??! If it’s not suicide then what it is that she is so firm on him being gone ? Clearly she knows something and if you know your not guilty of any crime or why would you not state the facts ?????

I could never get that hung up on what BC apparently said to someone else about MC being gone- that " he's not coming back." And why not? Because I see it as a pretty matter of fact statement that a wife would say about a man she knows better than anyone else, probably. If my own husband disappeared with little evidence left behind, or puzzling clues like the missing driver's license, after a pretty short period of time I would also think and say that he was NOT coming back. Doesn't mean she or I would know the means or details, or whether it was a walk-away, murder, or suicide. If he wasn't home or contacted any family or friends in a short period of time, or been found by searches, he was not going to come home and I would know it, period.

 

[Tripod]

I It does cause me some dismay because I wonder how many spouses say that. I've said it.
When you've been married that long, unfortunately, you do lapse into what feels like a brother/sister or roommate relationship.

I don't know about anyone else, but the early 60s (age I'm talking about) is a tricky age. She may have felt her attractability quotient was soon going to hit the skids as age marched on.
And she needed to feel the thrill of "passionate love" or sex.

I am in no way defending her behavior.
(having boyfriends outside of marriage.) Only that, if true, I understand it.

I suspect in the coming years, she may come to deeply regret that she didn't try harder. (If the above is true).



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'Xactly.

 

[Tripod]

Lots of people grow bored in their relationships.
The point is that in the majority of these relationships one of the partners doesn't usually end up VANISHED.

Very true, Midge, although I actually personally knew a husband who did just that, in the very small-town rural town I grew up in. Long, long ago. Not my husband, lol. Rare, but happens now and then.

 

[Talullah]

If SM had evidence of a suicide it seems like he would’ve presented it to MC’s family, knowing how they felt, before he told the world in a press conference. Unless he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time there’s no way he thought that’d sit well. He knew MC’s family. They knew MC didn’t ride a bike.
Maybe MC’s kids and grandchildren thought he and BC had worked through their differences and believed BC had MC’s best interests at heart. Our VI defended BC not talking to the media, saying she was too distraught, while BC got her ducks in a row for life after MC. That’s just cold. I think she’s kept quiet so there’s less to explain when the truth comes out.

 

[Tripod]

I agree. But some may see no hope that the marriage can't and won't be salvaged and therefore their life is no longer worth living.

IMO, that could be why BC appears/feels guilty. She won't talk about it because, she may rightfully suspect suicide and feels it is her fault. There were probably awful things she threw at him (and maybe he returned some ugliness too) that can't be unsaid or undone. I do believe she knows what happened but I don't think it was murder. (Not anymore, anyway).

Do I think he walked away? As much as I'd like to think so, I don't see it. The woman he loved most in the world didn't love him back. (But, even though no longer love in the romantic sense, I think she loved him.)

Why can't they find him? I don't know but I'd look again around the bridge.

I don't think any of these younger men see her as anything but an experienced roll in the hay. It will dawn on her soon enough imo, that there is no future happiness there.



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I've thought as much for months and months. I still do devote plenty of time mulling around the murder scenario, but have as much trouble with that as with any other theory.

One reason is the driver's license missing, and another big one is that I've felt very strongly all along that it was MC himself who locked everything up, leaving the keys purposefully inside the shop. The blood drops are a puzzle, as is the means of transportation.

 

[Tripod]

I'm going to have to do some searching these threads. I understood it that BC was complaining she was living with a 'roommate'. Which is why, at that time, suicide did become a real possibility for me, as I let my thoughts travel down a certain path. Off to search!

ETA: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-3&p=13603026#post13603026
From our VI Steel54.
"I do know for a fact that there were some tension between the two. BC had made comments about living with a roommate and MC had told me that BC had been going out drinking and at times till around 3 in the morning. I also know that a female friend of hers had accused her of having an affair with her husband. MC was aware of the accusation."

I'm very glad you two brought this up. I remembered the "roommate" comment by Steel54 very well, but did think it meant that BC was thinking about finding a roommate to live with. Now I think you've got it correct, MidgeM. and she was complaining about her homelife with MC.

 

[Tripod]

That's a very good point imho. But how do we know she hasn't been on LE to do all they can? If she asked for help, do you think anyone would have taken her seriously? It seems people on a certain fb page were accusing her of murdering her husband. I wonder if
her pleas would have been met with silence, disdain and more accusations.

Also, she probably feared, and rightly so, that her extra curricular activities were going to come to the forefront.
They did and maybe as she feared it dragged a bunch of "innocent" people in the middle. Who wouldn't think she was guilty?! Everyone did/does!

And maybe she's mad as hell that MC left her in this mess. (Before anyone jumps on me, I'm opining. Just putting it out there.)

As I said before, that house, taxes on all three properties, any outstanding debts on cars, insurance, and anything else, was going to sink her. I would have done the same thing. I'm sorry, but this was no time to be sentimental.

I was going to try to map out their monthly expenses but I'm going to leave it at the mortgage and taxes on just the Quinlan land instead. The Quinlan house was to be their retirement house. I'll bet she thought she was living in a castle. Unfortunately, I think the house and everything else became a ball and chain after a few years when she realized money was scarce after all the bills had been paid. It may have caused resentment over the years.

I've come upon this conclusion, not because I want to, but to me, it makes the most sense. I honestly don't know about the GPS and the things SM reported about following the signal from the home to the bridge. But I sure would be checking it out to prove or disprove that theory and...I'd want divers back in the water.

I'm hoping that Klein can get his hands on the phone and have someone else look at it.

If I'm wrong, I will be on my knees begging for forgiveness and I'll personally attend any trial that is held
to hold the right people responsible.

I think the daughters at this point are in a better position to ask for help than BC.







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Can I hitch a ride to any trial with you, Razz? I may well end up being very, very wrong, too. I just hope and pray all of Papaw's loved ones find the truth, ASAP.

I'll disagree with you a little in that I think MC and BC had no problems meeting their monthly obligations, with enough to spare. I do believe some things may have been "tight" in the past, and that they each may well have had differing ideas as to how to spend the next 5-10 years. I've been of the opinion that BC would have been better off with MC being present and alive, unless she seriously wanted to divorce.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Can I hitch a ride to any trial with you, Razz? I may well end up being very, very wrong, too. I just hope and pray all of Papaw's loved ones find the truth, ASAP.

I'll disagree with you a little in that I think MC and BC had no problems meeting their monthly obligations, with enough to spare. I do believe some things may have been "tight" in the past, and that they each may well have had differing ideas as to how to spend the next 5-10 years. I've been of the opinion that BC would have been better off with MC being present and alive, unless she seriously wanted to divorce.

RBBM

A couple of articles on how adultry may affect one’s decision on whether or not to file for a divorce in Texas:

“How Adultery May Affect Property Division and Texas Divorce Proceedings”

“While adultery is a form of personal betrayal and causes great amounts of pain in many marriages, the courts may not consider it a major determining factor when divvying up a couple’s marital estate. However, it may play a role in the court’s decisions regarding other aspects of a divorce case.

Texas is a no-fault divorce state. This means that neither party has to show that the other was in the wrong or committed any bad acts.

[SBM]

Texas also allows fault-based divorces, in which one party uses one of the acceptable grounds for divorce as the reason for filing the petition. And adultery is one of the grounds for fault-based divorces in Texas. However, it’s very rare for the courts to divide an estate disproportionately in favor of one spouse simply on the grounds of adultery.

Proving Adultery is Extremely Difficult
In order to prove adultery to the courts, the accusing spouse will have the burden of proof to show that his or her spouse actually had sexual intercourse with someone else. For obvious reasons, this is exceptionally hard to accomplish.

[SBM]

But even if you could somehow prove it, the courts may not place too much weight on it. While there are exceptions, it may not ultimately affect property division to the extent that many spouses hope.

Adultery and Child Custody and Alimony Decisions

Adultery may be a factor, however, in decisions about custody and alimony. Some of the things the courts will consider include:

whether the children witnessed the adulterous acts;
where the acts took place; and
how long the affair had been going on prior to filing for divorce.
Alimony can be affected if one party proves the other was adulterous. If the spouse seeking alimony is the adulterous party, the courts may bar him or her from receiving alimony.

However, if the spouse that is seeking alimony has never worked during the course of the marriage then that spouse could ostensibly receive a larger proportion of the estate. However, to some courts, the two situations – the lack of work experience and the adultery – may cancel each other out.

[SBM]”
https://www.wmtxlaw.com/articles/adultery-may-affect-property-division-texas-divorce-proceedings/

“What Can You Ask for in a Divorce in Texas if Adultery Has Been Committed?”

Grounds
In Texas, you may file for a "no fault" divorce, or you may file for divorce based on fault grounds, such as adultery. In order to file for a fault divorce based on adultery, you must have evidence that the other party cheated.

[SBM]

Further, even if you do convince the court that your spouse committed adultery, the court is still not obligated to make its final ruling on the basis of fault.

Property Division
If you are successful in proving adultery, you may receive more of the community property in the divorce settlement.

[SBM]

If you prove the other party's adultery was the cause of your divorce, you may ask for and potentially receive a greater portion of the community property.

Alimony
The Texas Family Code does not look at fault when determining alimony amounts. Therefore, receiving alimony, or spousal support, is not automatic in Texas and proving adultery is not likely to have an impact on the court's decision. Generally, courts will only award alimony if there is evidence of domestic violence or the marriage lasted for 10 years or more and one spouse cannot financially support herself. Alimony awards usually only last for three years.

Proving Adultery
In order to prove that adultery occurred within your marriage, you must present evidence to the court. The court requires physical and credible evidence, such as emails, credit card statements and printouts of interactions on social media websites. Furthermore, it may be beneficial for your case if you can present evidence that money from community property was spent on gifts or vacations for the object of the extramarital affair. Providing such evidence may convince the court to award you more of the martial property estate.

[SBM]”
http://info.legalzoom.com/can-ask-divorce-texas-adultery-committed-24604.html

All BBM

 

[Razz]

RBBM

A couple of articles on how adultry may affect one’s decision on whether or not to file for a divorce in Texas:

“How Adultery May Affect Property Division and Texas Divorce Proceedings”

“While adultery is a form of personal betrayal and causes great amounts of pain in many marriages, the courts may not consider it a major determining factor when divvying up a couple’s marital estate. However, it may play a role in the court’s decisions regarding other aspects of a divorce case.

Texas is a no-fault divorce state. This means that neither party has to show that the other was in the wrong or committed any bad acts.

[SBM]

Texas also allows fault-based divorces, in which one party uses one of the acceptable grounds for divorce as the reason for filing the petition. And adultery is one of the grounds for fault-based divorces in Texas. However, it’s very rare for the courts to divide an estate disproportionately in favor of one spouse simply on the grounds of adultery.

Proving Adultery is Extremely Difficult
In order to prove adultery to the courts, the accusing spouse will have the burden of proof to show that his or her spouse actually had sexual intercourse with someone else. For obvious reasons, this is exceptionally hard to accomplish.

[SBM]

But even if you could somehow prove it, the courts may not place too much weight on it. While there are exceptions, it may not ultimately affect property division to the extent that many spouses hope.

Adultery and Child Custody and Alimony Decisions

Adultery may be a factor, however, in decisions about custody and alimony. Some of the things the courts will consider include:

whether the children witnessed the adulterous acts;
where the acts took place; and
how long the affair had been going on prior to filing for divorce.
Alimony can be affected if one party proves the other was adulterous. If the spouse seeking alimony is the adulterous party, the courts may bar him or her from receiving alimony.

However, if the spouse that is seeking alimony has never worked during the course of the marriage then that spouse could ostensibly receive a larger proportion of the estate. However, to some courts, the two situations – the lack of work experience and the adultery – may cancel each other out.

[SBM]”
https://www.wmtxlaw.com/articles/adultery-may-affect-property-division-texas-divorce-proceedings/

“What Can You Ask for in a Divorce in Texas if Adultery Has Been Committed?”

Grounds
In Texas, you may file for a "no fault" divorce, or you may file for divorce based on fault grounds, such as adultery. In order to file for a fault divorce based on adultery, you must have evidence that the other party cheated.

[SBM]

Further, even if you do convince the court that your spouse committed adultery, the court is still not obligated to make its final ruling on the basis of fault.

Property Division
If you are successful in proving adultery, you may receive more of the community property in the divorce settlement.

[SBM]

If you prove the other party's adultery was the cause of your divorce, you may ask for and potentially receive a greater portion of the community property.

Alimony
The Texas Family Code does not look at fault when determining alimony amounts. Therefore, receiving alimony, or spousal support, is not automatic in Texas and proving adultery is not likely to have an impact on the court's decision. Generally, courts will only award alimony if there is evidence of domestic violence or the marriage lasted for 10 years or more and one spouse cannot financially support herself. Alimony awards usually only last for three years.

Proving Adultery
In order to prove that adultery occurred within your marriage, you must present evidence to the court. The court requires physical and credible evidence, such as emails, credit card statements and printouts of interactions on social media websites. Furthermore, it may be beneficial for your case if you can present evidence that money from community property was spent on gifts or vacations for the object of the extramarital affair. Providing such evidence may convince the court to award you more of the martial property estate.

[SBM]”
http://info.legalzoom.com/can-ask-divorce-texas-adultery-committed-24604.html

All BBM

That's the thing. I don't believe MC was a vindictive man. I also don't think
he'd have to pay alimony.

Maybe BC stayed w/ him because she knew it would crush him if she left.

I certainly don't know ANYTHING for certain but I think he loved her enough that all he may have wanted was for her to be happy.

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[ocgrad]

I'm very glad you two brought this up. I remembered the "roommate" comment by Steel54 very well, but did think it meant that BC was thinking about finding a roommate to live with. Now I think you've got it correct, MidgeM. and she was complaining about her homelife with MC.

I respectfully disagree. It sounds like this information was told to Steel54 by MC, divulging details about the tension in their marriage and I think the comments were connected. When a spouse is sleeping around and out till 3 drinking it is normal for there to be talk of when they will be moving out.

 

[ocgrad]

Can I hitch a ride to any trial with you, Razz? I may well end up being very, very wrong, too. I just hope and pray all of Papaw's loved ones find the truth, ASAP.

I'll disagree with you a little in that I think MC and BC had no problems meeting their monthly obligations, with enough to spare. I do believe some things may have been "tight" in the past, and that they each may well have had differing ideas as to how to spend the next 5-10 years. I've been of the opinion that BC would have been better off with MC being present and alive, unless she seriously wanted to divorce.

I think that she seriously did not want to change her lifestyle to be a loyal wife, mother and grandmother. Whether she wanted a divorce I don't know but I don't think MC would have accepted an open marriage. With him present she would have to live out there with the cars, car shows and family focus. I don't hear much that sounds like she wanted that. And she had to take and use the pension and the money in the DROP in accordance with how MC wanted or how they agreed. With him gone she can sell that place, the cars and move closer to her work and partying but more importantly she has at worst half his pension which is 90% of what he earned in his highest years. But most of all she has full control of the DROP to take exactly how she wishes without any disagreement from him. She can take a lump sum, or a monthly amount equal to his original pension or several large equal amounts.
As a footnote, in 2015 the average DROP had $422,000. Many have MUCH more.
Is it a coincidence that just as he turned the age at which he must start taking money from the DROP he "disappears"? Had they disagreed for years on how to take it and how to spend it? Just because he was considerate and indulgent in some things doesn't mean he would agree to everything. And his idea of indulging and hers might have been different. He may have thought the Mustang was the coolest thing he could get her and she may have hated it and wanted a new BMW. He may have thought the best thing to do with the DROP was pay off the mortgage and establish college funds for the grandkids and she may have wanted a bigger house in Greenville on the golf course. I think it's safe to say they were not on the same page with life priorities. Either way now she has it all.

 

[Razz]

I think that she seriously did not want to change her lifestyle to be a loyal wife, mother and grandmother. Whether she wanted a divorce I don't know but I don't think MC would have accepted an open marriage. With him present she would have to live out there with the cars, car shows and family focus. I don't hear much that sounds like she wanted that. And she had to take and use the pension and the money in the DROP in accordance with how MC wanted or how they agreed. With him gone she can sell that place, the cars and move closer to her work and partying but more importantly she has at worst half his pension which is 90% of what he earned in his highest years. But most of all she has full control of the DROP to take exactly how she wishes without any disagreement from him. She can take a lump sum, or a monthly amount equal to his original pension or several large equal amounts.
As a footnote, in 2015 the average DROP had $422,000. Many have MUCH more.
Is it a coincidence that just as he turned the age at which he must start taking money from the DROP he "disappears"? Had they disagreed for years on how to take it and how to spend it? Just because he was considerate and indulgent in some things doesn't mean he would agree to everything. And his idea of indulging and hers might have been different. He may have thought the Mustang was the coolest thing he could get her and she may have hated it and wanted a new BMW. He may have thought the best thing to do with the DROP was pay off the mortgage and establish college funds for the grandkids and she may have wanted a bigger house in Greenville on the golf course. I think it's safe to say they were not on the same page with life priorities. Either way now she has it all.

Good points ocgrad.

I don't have a problem with her taking half his pension. After all, she stayed home and "worked" too. She raised two boys to adulthood, and I suspect she worked (for money) as a nurse as well. I get aggravated (and I don't think you are doing it) when people say, "well, it's his money, he worked hard
for it". She did too, but in ways some people don't rightly consider.

She could have had the same had she simply divorced him. To jeopardise everything to have your husband "taken out" makes no sense. Instead of gaining anything of value, she would/will lose everything.

I can understand if she likes to shop and travel. A lot of people do. I can understand her wanting to get out of the country.(farm) I can understand her not wanting a car that had to be treated with kid gloves. I can understand her not being particularly fond of the car group. That wasn't her thing and I'm sure everyone loved MC and probably worshipped the ground be walked on. I can't help but think they looked at her thinking she didn't deserve him.

And the in laws? It is nice to have them visit periodically but I don't want them living in the same zip code. I'd love it if my family lived closer.

So, I think she may have been walking a tricky tightrope, and living in her husband's shadow. It sounds miserable to me. But that's just my opinion.





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[flute4peace]

I know there's likely no way to find a legitimate/TOS appropriate source for this, but I would be curious to know if BC's "lifestyle" has been marriage-long or a more recent thing. Not expecting anyone to answer (don't want to violate TOS), I just think it would make a difference in how I feel about things.

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[ocgrad]

Good points ocgrad.

I don't have a problem with her taking half his pension. After all, she stayed home and "worked" too. She raised two boys to adulthood, and I suspect she worked (for money) as a nurse as well. I get aggravated (and I don't think you are doing it) when people say, "well, it's his money, he worked hard
for it". She did too, but in ways some people don't rightly consider.

She could have had the same had she simply divorced him. To jeopardise everything to have your husband "taken out" makes no sense. Instead of gaining anything of value, she would/will lose everything.

I can understand if she likes to shop and travel. A lot of people do. I can understand her wanting to get out of the country.(farm) I can understand her not wanting a car that had to be treated with kid gloves. I can understand her not being particularly fond of the car group. That wasn't her thing and I'm sure everyone loved MC and probably worshipped the ground be walked on. I can't help but think they looked at her thinking she didn't deserve him.

And the in laws? It is nice to have them visit periodically but I don't want them living in the same zip code. I'd love it if my family lived closer.

So, I think she may have been walking a tricky tightrope, and living in her husband's shadow. It sounds miserable to me. But that's just my opinion.





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I agree it was half hers. She could divorce and have half his pension and half of the DROP, unless she felt she would not get half based on him proving adultery. As it is she still gets half the pension but all of the DROP to spend however she wants. Many of those DROP accounts have $1MM and more. Even an average one is several hundred thousand.

 

[Razz]

I know there's likely no way to find a legitimate/TOS appropriate source for this, but I would be curious to know if BC's "lifestyle" has been marriage-long or a more recent thing. Not expecting anyone to answer (don't want to violate TOS), I just think it would make a difference in how I feel about things.

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Yes, I'd like to know how long she's had the 3 "boyfriends" and did she have them all at once or spaced out over a period.

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