GUILTY UK - Arrest in 1987 'Bedsit Murders' of Wendy Knell, 25, and Caroline Pierce, 20, in Kent

[Dotta]

Not defending a monster but could he have had the blinds shut during the day and snuck out at night due to shift work at the hospital.

But how can a person live like this??? Without sunshine?
Was he even human?
How was his wife coping?
Words fail me

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

Here's some quotes from the trial with regards to the previous occupants of Caroline's flat, it does make quite a chilling read:

Previous bedsit occupant 'had feeling someone had been in the flat on occasions'
According to a statement from Louise French, made in January 1988 and read out in court this afternoon, she had a feeling someone had been in the flat that she occupied before Caroline Pierce.

Louise previously rented a flat at 27 Grosvenor Park and lived alone until Alison Palmer moved in with her.

There we no burglaries whilst she lived alone but during late August 1987 to mid-September there were four burglaries, the court heard.

On the first occasion, her flatmate had £400 stolen (this was reported to CID), on the second occasion Louise did not report it but her briefcase had been moved, on the third occasion the front door was left open and Louise had £100 stolen (reported to local CID), and the fourth occasion occurred after police put an alarm mat in flat which was activated but no offender was located and was nothing stolen.

Louise also reported a prowler during the day, who would come to the rear bedroom window when her flatmate was in the bathroom.

The two women experienced further incidents of prowlers - on one occasion the venetian blinds were lifted apart, Louise yelled out and the blind was then lowered slowly - she reported this incident to the police but they told her it was too late to do anything.

Louise had the feeling someone had been in the flat on other occasions but could not be sure.

Louise's flatmate felt 'objects had been moved' inside bedsit
In her statement, Louise's flatmate, Alison Palmer, also alluded to the fact she thought objects had been moved inside their bedsit.

Alison made her statement in January 1988 and it too was read out in court by Mr Atkinson.

She alleged that there were at least three burglaries at the flat while she lived there.

On several other occasions, Alison felt that objects had been moved but nothing was stolen.

She also recalled an incident where someone lifted the venetian blinds in the flat. On another occasion, Alison was in the flat alone, she had a bath and walked into the living room area and saw a person looking into the flat.

He ran away “quickly and freely” - this matter was not reported to the police.

Alison and Louise left the bedsit on October 5, 1987.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

Not defending a monster but could he have had the blinds shut during the day and snuck out at night due to shift work at the hospital.

I believe his shift pattern was 11am - 7pm with the time period between 4pm and 7pm being when no-one was in the morgue.

 

[Dotta]

Here's some quotes from the trial with regards to the previous occupants of Caroline's flat, it does make quite a chilling read:

It sounds like Golden State Killer from the USA.
By the way, he was a cop and was caught the same way - by DNA in ancestry website after nearly 30 years.
Now he is rotting in a cell.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

Between 1985 and 1986, a work colleague of Fuller's wife had moved to the same road where Caroline was later jumped by Fuller. She lived at number 57 and the property backed on to an ally and the graveyard. Looks to be around a 10 metre distance between number 57 and 27 rear gardens via the graveyard. Caroline lived at number 27.

Fuller and his wife had visited number 57 as guests of his wife's friend.

His wife's friend stated the following at the trial:

Prowler around the flat
Wendy had reported a prowler around her flat during the period in which she was living alone - her boyfriend just happened to be staying the night.

He was already in bed and she had just brushed her teeth ready to get into bed.

There were Venetian blinds drawn closed in the bathroom - she parted the blinds and saw a set of eyes looking back at her from the dark outside, she screamed and closed the blind.

The ground level outside was at the same level as the bedroom floor.

All she could say was that the eyes were higher up than hers, making the person taller than her.

She said the only way the prowler could’ve got in was via the alleyway. She reported it to the police the next day.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The West Kent Cyclists Touring Club have their archives covering the period 1929 to 2002 at the Kent History Library in Maidstone ironically not far from where Fuller’s trial was held.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The Tun Wells section of the West Kent Cyclists Touring Club of whom Fuller was a member were formed in 1982. Jean Brook was murdered at Bedgebury in 1982 probably along one of their routes.

 

[Officer Dibble]

All this info is in the trial's live report Court hears David Fuller 'regularly cheated on wife' - live murder trial updates

SBM. In that link above (thanks for sharing) it said "
Wendy had reported a prowler around her flat during the period in which she was living alone - her boyfriend just happened to be staying the night.
He was already in bed and she had just brushed her teeth ready to get into bed.
There were Venetian blinds drawn closed in the bathroom - she parted the blinds and saw a set of eyes looking back at her from the dark outside, she screamed and closed the blind.
The ground level outside was at the same level as the bedroom floor.
All she could say was that the eyes were higher up than hers, making the person taller than her.
She said the only way the prowler could’ve got in was via the alleyway. She reported it to the police the next day."

Another report in that article said "The two women experienced further incidents of prowlers - on one occasion the venetian blinds were lifted apart, Louise yelled out and the blind was then lowered slowly - she reported this incident to the police but they told her it was too late to do anything."

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

SBM. In that link above (thanks for sharing) it said "
Wendy had reported a prowler around her flat during the period in which she was living alone - her boyfriend just happened to be staying the night.
He was already in bed and she had just brushed her teeth ready to get into bed.
There were Venetian blinds drawn closed in the bathroom - she parted the blinds and saw a set of eyes looking back at her from the dark outside, she screamed and closed the blind.
The ground level outside was at the same level as the bedroom floor.
All she could say was that the eyes were higher up than hers, making the person taller than her.
She said the only way the prowler could’ve got in was via the alleyway. She reported it to the police the next day."

Just to clarify, that would have been a friend of Fuller's wife, called "Wendy"...not "Wendy Knell". I apologise if you already knew that, but I can see how one could confuse that statement as being about Wendy Knell.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Here's some quotes from the trial with regards to the previous occupants of Caroline's flat, it does make quite a chilling read:

My thoughts are that the main doors to bedsit buildings in the 80's were often left on the latch.

The security of the door into each bedsit was probably just a traditional rim cylinder lock, which would have been easy to open without forcing it. I've done it myself when locked out....just a few seconds to get back in with an every day item.

I'm starting to wonder if DF was entering bedsit properties as part of obsessive voyeuristic/stalking behaviour and had already identfied his victims and where they lived. We know he visited the restaurant and photo shop where Caroline and Wendy worked. Maybe it was these places where he first came into contact with them.

Is it possible that the murders/rapes were not pre-meditated but that he was disturbed and murdered them, but with a previously unknown/resisted predilection to perform the worst acts after death, which necessiated a need to have unquestiobable access to corpses, hence finding the perfect NHS position.

I feel the detail of his early burglary offences, method of entry, time of day, all items taken and areas disturbed etc would provide a much clearer picture of his early motivation.

This is such an appalling case. That DF flew under the radar for almost a lifetime makes it all the more chilling.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

Is it possible that the murders/rapes were not pre-meditated but that he was disturbed and murdered them, but with a previously unknown/resisted predilection to perform the worst acts after death, which prompted seeking a job with the NHS that provided the necessary access to victims.

I'm wondering that myself. Wendy was out on that night and came back late. I do wonder if he was already in her bedsit when she arrived, hid somewhere and then overpowered her. Whatever happened, she didn't make a sound and no-one heard anything. Sightings of what is now assumed to be him and his car were placed about an hour or so after Wendy was dropped off at home by her boyfriend.

With Caroline, I wonder if he was trying to get into her flat but she disturbed him after the taxi dropped her off. She walked into the darkness which was the steep stairs down to the door and so walked into him?

In both cases, he would have most likely seen both properties in darkness and assumed no-one was home. Just my opinion of course but yes, maybe on the first murder he then discovered a new urge? Until he talks, we'll never know.

 

[Dotta]

I'm wondering that myself. Wendy was out on that night and came back late. I do wonder if he was already in her bedsit when she arrived, hid somewhere and then overpowered her. Whatever happened, she didn't make a sound and no-one heard anything. Sightings of what is now assumed to be him and his car were placed about an hour or so after Wendy was dropped off at home by her boyfriend.

With Caroline, I wonder if he was trying to get into her flat but she disturbed him after the taxi dropped her off. She walked into the darkness which was the steep stairs down to the door and so walked into him?

In both cases, he would have most likely seen both properties in darkness and assumed no-one was home. Just my opinion of course but yes, maybe on the first murder he then discovered a new urge? Until he talks, we'll never know.

But why to kill them then?
He could have just stunned them with a single blow, no?
But he hit them repeatedly and even strangled them.
He knew perfectly well why he came to their homes.
MOO

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

You make a good point. Judging by the injuries on both victims, blunt force head trauma, he was obviously equipped to kill.

 

[joe jones]

Not defending a monster but could he have had the blinds shut during the day and snuck out at night due to shift work at the hospital.

I thought that too, but also his night shifts were 11-8am so I don't think he was at home at night unless on his days off, I am unsure where the 4 children mentioned are in relation to his life and marriages, he had two children with his first wife, none with his second, and I have read he had a further child with his last wife in some reports then no mention of a child with her in others,

 

[Dotta]

I thought that too, but also his night shifts were 11-8am so I don't think he was at home at night unless on his days off, I am unsure where the 4 children mentioned are in relation to his life and marriages, he had two children with his first wife, none with his second, and I have read he had a further child with his last wife in some reports then no mention of a child with her in others,

3 kids with 1st wife - they hardly know him as they lived with Mum.
4th kid must have lived in their family home (with blinds always down) Poor child!

 

[joe jones]

It is astounding that he was never caught once, it seems he was very detail orientated and obsessive like his keeping everything hoarded in his home, 250 boxes of stuff one report said, much of that his depraved documenting of what he had done.

He probably over the years had a pattern of behaviours that he stuck to, and he had years to enable himself to do what he wanted to, I imagine all his colleagues but especially the mortuary colleagues must be in total shock and horror that all those years he was doing what he did.

his victimising just goes on and on I imagine all the LE who have had to look at the photographs and videos are sickened to an extent it would be hard to imagine, then having to go and speak to families and tell them things that nobody could even begin to comprehend.

I think a full enquiry is needed to look at his whole life including what went so wrong with his being able to have access to the morgue to do what he did. I still keep coming back to the need to also go and take a look at the school for special needs where he lived for a time, with such a depraved mind maybe murder and necrophilia were not his only interests. It does seem he may have also have enjoyed prowling round peeping on women, and I did read that they found digital video taken secretly in his bathroom of a woman he had an interest in, so he was also a voyeur, secretly filming women.

If I was any one of his former intimate partners all the water in the oceans couldn't wash me clean when I think of what he did in the morgue then came home to them.

 

[Dotta]

It is astounding that he was never caught once, it seems he was very detail orientated and obsessive like his keeping everything hoarded in his home, 250 boxes of stuff one report said, much of that his depraved documenting of what he had done.

He probably over the years had a pattern of behaviours that he stuck to, and he had years to enable himself to do what he wanted to, I imagine all his colleagues but especially the mortuary colleagues must be in total shock and horror that all those years he was doing what he did.

his victimising just goes on and on I imagine all the LE who have had to look at the photographs and videos are sickened to an extent it would be hard to imagine, then having to go and speak to families and tell them things that nobody could even begin to comprehend.

I think a full enquiry is needed to look at his whole life including what went so wrong with his being able to have access to the morgue to do what he did. I still keep coming back to the need to also go and take a look at the school for special needs where he lived for a time, with such a depraved mind maybe murder and necrophilia were not his only interests. It does seem he may have also have enjoyed prowling round peeping on women, and I did read that they found digital video taken secretly in his bathroom of a woman he had an interest in, so he was also a voyeur, secretly filming women.

If I was any one of his former intimate partners all the water in the oceans couldn't wash me clean when I think of what he did in the morgue then came home to them.

A school for children with special needs?
I have this terrible feeling he was in his element living there

 

[joe jones]

A school for children with special needs?
I have this terrible feeling he was in his element living there

it was a home for girls with learning difficulties, just makes me go cold thinking he at one point lived close to such vulnerable girls,

 

[Whitehall 1212]

But why to kill them then?
He could have just stunned them with a single blow, no?
But he hit them repeatedly and even strangled them.
He knew perfectly well why he came to their homes.
MOO

As in all such crimes of violence we are trying to make sense of behaviour that is alien to our (hopefully) reasonably well adjusted personalities.

That is not how people like DF think or act when they are in attack mode, because they are wired differently and such acts are not repellent to them....quite the opposite, they are spurred on by the way it makes them feel.

 

[joe jones]

As in all such crimes of violence we are trying to make sense of behaviour that is alien to our (hopefully) reasonably well adjusted personalities.

That is not how people like DF think or act when they are in attack mode, because they are wired differently and such acts are not repellent to them....quite the opposite, they are spurred on by the way it makes them feel.

totally agree, I don't think its innate though, I think during the sexual maturation age when most people live within a range of the norms of sexual desires he deviated from all of the norms, why he/we may never know, he alluded to something happening at 4 years old, but I think his necrophilia was a chosen interest that was sparked by who knows what, I think like many he was able to keep his depravity contained for years by peeping, voyeurism, even burglary can be seem as part of sexual fantasy, but his urges became too much and he acted out his fantasies, initially as murder necrophilia and then just necrophilia, I think without access to the morgue for all those years he would have killed until caught.

It is obvious his urges/desires were strong and obsessive as witnessed by the amount of victims. P